Mike need your help please....

[rahula]

I still have a few unanswered questions regarding Meguiar's professional products.

1. Are these correct?:

Cleaners Only: MPPC
Cleaners/Polishes: #83, #82, #80, #9
Pure Polish: #81 (#1 and #7 too but I haven't bought these)

2. I have read on the forum the list from mildest to harshest to be:

#9
#82
MPPC
#80
#83
Is this in the right order? (I was reading the topic where people are trying to put these and other manufactures products in order but I am only interested in the Meg range)

3. If this is the right order then what is the difference in abrasiveness and overall quality between MPPC (Does not contain polishes, right?), #9, #82 and #80. The facts which I have been given so far are a bit contradictory or not answered in a clear manner by anyone and it would be best if it was answered directly by someone with the right answer and knows the information.

I have been told by Meguiar's UK that #80 is a newer product than #82 and is a replacement for it . I am also told that #82 is kept in production because some people have been using it for years and don't want to change. Is this right, #80 is not more abrasive than #82 but merely an improved version of it? The bottles both have it marked as light cutting power. #9 on the other has as a 3 on the label.

How close in abrasiveness is #9 to #82/#80. I have been told that they are very close. I now have, sitting in my garage, all the products listed above and am still undecided which ones to keep. If there is no noticeable difference in the product which do you think is *the* best one to keep?

I can confirm that the following items are staying #83, NXT Wash, NXT Tech, Booster Wax, Clay, #81 and #16.

Question is which ones from MPPC, Scratch X, #9, #80 and #82 can I get rid of. I would like to be able to keep one product which can be applied both by hand and by PC or two items where one is used best by hand and the other by PC. Can anyone help me please?

Sorry about the long post.:)

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Although I am not Mike, hopefully you will allow me to try and answer some of your questions.

Firstly, Meguiar’s pure polishes are: #3 Machine Glaze (designed to be applied with a buffer), #5 New Car Glaze (designed for areas of higher humidity where product removal may otherwise be difficult), #7 Show Car Glaze, and #81 Hand Polish.

Secondly, Meguiar’s #1 is actually their Medium Cut Cleaner (designed to be applied with a rotary) and is definitely NOT a pure polish.

Thirdly, Meguiar’s MPPC is more of a chemical cleaner rather than a product like #83 DACP that uses Diminishing Abrasives. If I were cleaning the paint by hand, I would probably suggest the MPPC. Otherwise with the PC, I would use the #83 DACP.

Finally, Meguiar’s #80 Speed Glaze IS more aggressive than either the #9 Swirl Remover or the #82 Swirl Free Polish. On Meguiar’s aggressiveness scale of 1-10 with 10 being the most aggressive, the #80 is a “4”. But the #9 and the #82 are a “3”. Now with that said, the #82 is very slightly more aggressive than the #9.

Meguiar’s #80 Speed Glaze is a very unique product as it has cleaners, a healthy dose of Meg’s TS oils and a synthetic Polymer (that is paint-able and therefore safe for use in the body shop). If the paint is in fairly good condition, you could use the #80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 Polishing pad and then top with #20/26 or NXT. You may not need the #82 in some cases. However, if light swirling remains, then the #82 will be needed.

As for the other questions, hopefully Mike will answer those so that you can alleviate any further contradictory information.

Tim

[rahula]

Hi Tim

Thanks for the very deatiled reply. I appreciate you have a lot of questions to answer for everyone and writing that answer must have taken some time. Thank you. May I ask a few questions which follow from your answer?

Thirdly, Meguiar’s MPPC is more of a chemical cleaner rather than a product like #83 DACP that uses Diminishing Abrasives. If I were cleaning the paint by hand, I would probably suggest the MPPC. Otherwise with the PC, I would use the #83 DACP.

You do not recomend using #80 for use by hand. Is there a reason for that? Since MPPC only cleans by means of chemicals rather than particles is it as good as #80 or #83? Finally how close is the cleaning ability of MPPC to #80 and where on the scale does it fall between #9, #82 and #80?

If the paint is in fairly good condition, you could use the #80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 Polishing pad and then top with #20/26 or NXT. You may not need the #82 in some cases. However, if light swirling remains, then the #82 will be needed.

Does this mean that #80 or the pad itself will leave visible minor swirls? Would it therefore not be possible to use the finishing pad with #80 after using the polishing pad? This would allow me to keep only #80 and return Scratch X, MPPC, #82 and #9, do you feel that in addition to #80 another one of those products should be kept for even less abrasive work or would my method above work?

Thanks.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Yep, it can be pretty busy around here and on SCG sometimes!

You can use #80 by hand. However, it uses diminishing abrasives which would require more effort to break down the product. From my experience, I have found that, by hand (or machine), the MPPC works very well to remove blemishes and clean the paint. Now, if the paint has some moderate swirls, you would probably be better off going directly to the #83 DACP.

In terms of aggressiveness, MPPC as far as I know falls in between ScratchX and #83 DACP. Based on my experience with it, I would place it above #82 and #9 but similar to #80.

Again, #80 is a totally unique product! To say one is better than the other is not really possible as they are intended for different applications. But, with that said, I have often started with the #80 on many vehicles and did not need further steps. Instead, I will just top it with NXT or the #20/26 combo.

As for needing the #82 after the #80, it is sometimes necessary as some BC/CC can be really soft or very hard. As such, you never really know how a paint will respond to a product until a test spot is done. If the paint has light marring after the #80, switch from a Polishing to a Finishing pad and vice versa. Sometimes, just by changing a pad while using the same product, can make the difference between a flawless finish and a good finish.

If money is a factor, then I would keep the #83, #80 and #82. That way you have a good variety of aggressive levels. After you have removed the swirls, usually only light maintenance with the #82 will be required.

I hope this helps! I did PM Mike to let him know about this thread and the questions you have. Hopefully, we can help you in the right direction! :)

Tim

[rahula]

Hi Tim

Once again thank you for your very detailed reply. It is very informative and now I am beginning to understand the various products and being able to utilise their individual abilities.

I am waiting for my PC to arrive and since I am impatient and also wanted to try some of the products by hand I washed the car with Dawn, Then I clayed the car and washed it again using NXT wash. Nice smell and very lubricating. I then took the car into the garage and started with the hood of the car.

I split this into three equal sections and applied #80 to the first section and MPPC to the second. The third I left alone as my standard. You are right about the difficulty of applying #80 by hand. It takes a lot of time and effort to achieve results with this. On the other hand MPPC was easier both to apply and remove.

Results: I had a lot of swirls but not too many paint defects and both product reduced swirls by around 60-70% than the standard. I then wanted to apply #82 to all the panels but knew I had a long night ahead of me and the rest of the car to do therefore decided against this. The swirls removed and paint finish of both products was very similar but the #80 being perhaps 2-5% better so hardly worth mentioning. It might very well be that once #80 is applied with the PC the difference would be more substantial and I wait to try that next week.

I applied and removed #80 to the whole car and was exhausted. I then applied #81 to the panels. Is it best to remove it while still damp or should I let it dry as per the bottle instructions? The reason I ask is that I let it dry and tried to wipe it off with a MF towel and it was hard work. When I applied it and removed it while it was still damp it was a lot easier but the towel was becoming gummed up very quickly. Would I be better applying it and removing while moist with a cotton towel finishing with a MF?

After the whole process I applied NXT to the car and removed it after 20 mins. I let it cure overnight and applied P21S Wax on top this morning.

I then applied NXT Tech Protect which too is a great product. I was reading on another thread where someone was using this as a tire dressing but the bottle clearly says not to do so and therefore I didn't.

The car looks a lot better than it its initial condition but the perfectionist in me is disappointed with the ratio of result vs. effort put into it. The problem is not the products but the simple fact that the PC is essential for this task or arms like Popeye. It is very hard to compare the results with the condition of the car before starting the process in my mind and therefore the disappointment started. Once I looked at the pics I realised how good the car actually looks. All I need now is a PC and answers to the few remaining questions to be able to brag about my results.

Thanks for reading and answering any questions. I need to learn to shorten my posts! :D

PS: I have two 500 watt halogen lamps pointing down on the car in the garage, would it be better if I installed some fluorescent lights in there instead?

[Mike Phillips]

Hi rahula,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online! :welcome

Sorry that I haven't been able to respond to your posts, or anyone's posts. Meguiar's has been hosting some members from Autopia since Wednesday night and I have not had time to hang out on the forum.

Right now it's 8:30am Saturday morning and were setting up for Detail Day at Meguiar's for area members from Autopia that will probably go till late this evening, so alas... I will be busy!

Here's Brian White removing a scratch from the clear coat and a member from Autopia applying some Tech Wax to his Mustang using the PC

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2Firstthing.jpg

I hope to get back to answering questions full time as soon as possible.

Thank you for your patience.

Mike

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

When it comes to using #81 Hand Polish, I prefer to apply it to one panel at a time and then remove. I use MF but others do use a 100% cotton towel for initial wipe off followed with a MF. When it comes to #7, I do apply it to the whole vehicle and wipe it off when the product skins over. Here is a thread by Mike on the use of #7:
http://www.showcargarage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2&highlight=show+car%2A+glaze

Mike's method works very well! But, I still prefer #81 as it is easier to remove.

As for the shine/gloss you achieved by hand, a machine can make a huge difference. Using a PC will bring the finish a lot further than 90% of people will be able to do by hand.

As for the lights, I like using the twin halogens to see any areas that need extra attention. However, a properly set up garage with fluorescents set up at the waist level on the side walls and fluorescents on the roof, you would be really able to see the paint VERY well from many different angles!

Tim

[jfelbab]

Lighting.

IMHO, if you want a lot of even light use florescent. If your aim is to see and remove swirls and scratches use the halogens. Of course, I use both. :D

I have several florescent lights mounted high to provide good shadowless, even illumination and the halogens are on a tripod which I move around to see if there are any swirls that need attention. The halogen light is much like sunlight in that it will make swirls more visible.

[rahula]

2hotford & jfelbab

Thank you both for the excellent information and guidance. I have taken on board what you have recommended and have decided to keep #80, #81, #82 and #83. I am returning #9 and #7 as they seem to overlap with the products which I am keeping. In the end I decided to keep both #82 and #80 since they are not the same level of aggressiveness and I would start using #82 and only if that didn't work would I move to #80 and then to #83.

I have also ordered the fluorescent lights to use in conjunction with the halogens. All I now need is the PC which should arrive by the end of this week to have another go and get the remaining swirls out. The car is very shiny now and it really has improved after letting the wax cure for around 24 hours. The paintwork is glass like smooth and lovely to touch.

I thank you all for all the help with this. I will post the pics pf this soon and before I apply the products by PC.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

You are very welcome!!! :)


Tim

[rahula]

What are the "EXACT" differences between #80, #82 and MPPC?

According to the very helpful replies posted here I understand that MPPC and #82 are actually chemical cleaners while #80 is mechanical. Well to be accurate I am told by meguiar's that #82 does have some abrasives but it also hides swirls by means of chemicals.

I don't wish to split hairs but still remain confused between the *exact* similarities and differences of these products.

So what are the main difference in finish, quality, aggressiveness and polishing abilities between these three products? Which has more polishing to it than the others, which has more oils, which has more abilities to clean oxidation etc?

Or perhaps a better question might be why have three different products which seem to do an equally good job as each other. In replies here and other posts I am informed that #80 is more agressive than #82 but according to Meguiar's they are the same.

And what role does MPPC play among these products? Again I have been kindly informed by 2hotford that it is a chemical cleaner. Does this meant that this product only cleans the finish to remove oxidation by means of chemicals and no abrasives?

I am really sorry to go on about it and getting anal but I don't feel I can use these products for their intended purposes without actually knowing what each one does. Does that make sense? I just feel as though although I have a rough idea there lacks clarity on the products themselves. Am I getting too obsessed about this and should I just stop?

Rahul

[rahula]

Hi all

Since I didn't get all the answers I thought that there would be no better way than to try myself.

I applied #83 with a pc and on the hood/roof I had to apply it twice. I then applied #80 and it looks very very nice now. However I still have a few slight swirls.

Should I now apply #82 or perhaps #80 with a finishing pad? I spent nearly 9 hours doing the car on the exterior and don't know whether to carry on or finish the project now.

In my mind no other steps are required except top off with NXT. The reason for this is that the car is a dark blue one and lives all its life outside. I don't think there is much point in getting rid of every swirl because they will appear again soon. Am I wrong?

Also do you think that I should apply #81 or not? The car is very shiny but would it make much difference applying #81 before NXT or is this a wasted step? My whole body hurts but it was a fun experience. I intend to post all the steps I took for others to learn from. I have taken lots of pics and will start a new thread when I am finished.

Thanks.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Sorry I did not get back to you on the follow up questions as it has been VERY busy lately on MOL and SCG. I will let Mike know as he would be the best person to ask about the exact differences.

As to your question, it would probably be a small improvement by using the #82 (after the #80), and then apply #81. It (#81) will add more depth to the paint. I would not miss this step. Then top it with 2 coats of NXT.

As for chasing every swirl on a daily driver, well, that is something each individual must decide.

Tim

[rahula]

Hi Tim

Thanks again for your reply. Once more question and I have searched everywhere but what are the proper ways to apply and remove these products:

#83
#80
#82
#81

Can you please say what speed on the pc you would use but also what would be the condition of the residue which indicates it is time to remove. I applied these products but some were very hard to remove with the mf towels and I was unsure when I had worked the product to its most beneficial level. For instance #83 was applied until the finish was polished shiny and then wiped with a mf. Is this correct or have I worked it too long.

Please take your time as I don't intend to do the next car for at least another week. My body is not ready yet. I spent 9 hours on Sat applying #83 & #80 with the pc and taping sections off. I think I am spending too much time applying the product and probably improperly. I spent 6 hours today applying #81 and NXT. I am sure the next time I do all this it will be less time but can it be half as much in all?

Thanks for all the help you might be able to give. I will do a deatiled write up of the process soon.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Let’s see if I can help you out…here is how I use the products:

Meguiar’s #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (DACP): I will apply it with the PC set to speed 5, using a W-8006 Polishing Pad. Work the product until only a slight dust/residue remains (do not dry buff). Make sure to move the buffer in a “cross-hatch” pattern. Remove the product with a quality MF towel.

Meguiar’s #82 Swirl Free Polish: I will apply it with the PC set to speed 4, using either the W-9006 Finishing Pad or the W-8006 Polishing Pad depending upon the condition of the finish. Work the product in thoroughly but remove while still damp, again with a quality MF towel. I tend to complete one section at a time.

Meguiar’s #80 Speed Glaze: I will apply it with the PC set to speed 4-5, using either the W-9006 Finishing Pad or the W-8006. Again, this depends on the finish of the paint. This time work the product in and allow 10-15 minutes to set-up before removal (Because the #80 has a “paintable polymer”, I tend to treat it like other polymers by allowing time to set up before removal). Perform the swipe test by using your finger and swipe gently across the paint. If the product removes easily with no smearing, then it is ready to remove.

Meguiar’s #81 Hand Polish: I will apply this with the PC set to speed 3. Apply the product with a W-9006 Finishing Pad. Use over-lapping strokes to ensure total coverage. There is no need to work the product, just apply it. Complete one panel at a time and then remove with a MF towel.

This is how I have always had the best success applying these products. However, be sure to always follow the label instructions!

I hope this helps!

Tim

[6318]

Meguiar’s #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (DACP): I will apply it with the PC set to speed 5, using a W-8006 Polishing Pad. Work the product until only a slight dust/residue remains (do not dry buff). Make sure to move the buffer in a “cross-hatch” pattern. Remove the product with a quality MF towel.
What do you mean by crosshatch?
I thought the video said "Use over-lapping strokes to ensure total coverage" like you said on #81...what is crosshatching?

Genuinely confused/ignorant,
6318

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

When using a fairly aggressive cleaner like #83 DACP, I will use a cross hatch pattern for application. This means over a given area (2'x2'), moving the buffer first side to side, then front to back and then corner to corner. The reason this is done is to prevent visible buffing lines or halos from showing up. This of course is more important for when using a rotary, but still valid for a DA (PC). For other products, like a glaze or light polish, over-lapping passes ensures total coverage. Moreover, there is little cutting action with a PC and a light polish, so a cross-hatch pattern is not needed.

I hope this helps! :)

Tim

[rahula]

Hi once again

Can someone please now give me more answers on these products please. I have searched and read but once again confusion reigns:

Citri Gel
Engine Kote
APC+

How do you use these products and since I can only buy them in the UK in gallon sizes I don't wish to waste my money.

I have read engine kote is great for leaving a non gloss non sticky finish to the engine compartment and wheel well. Is this the only use?

I am told APC+ is a great all round cleaner. So what are the differences between this and Citri Gel. What product does what and should I get both or will I be able to clean using only one of them?

Also #39, can I use APC+ to do the same job or do I need #39 for cleaning wax residue of vinyl trim?

Thanks.

Rahul

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by rahula
Hi once again

Can someone please now give me more answers on these products please. I have searched and read but once again confusion reigns:

Citri Gel
Engine Kote
APC+

How do you use these products and since I can only buy them in the UK in gallon sizes I don't wish to waste my money.

I have read engine kote is great for leaving a non gloss non sticky finish to the engine compartment and wheel well. Is this the only use?

I am told APC+ is a great all round cleaner. So what are the differences between this and Citri Gel. What product does what and should I get both or will I be able to clean using only one of them?

Also #39, can I use APC+ to do the same job or do I need #39 for cleaning wax residue of vinyl trim?

Thanks.

Rahul

Hi Rahul,

The Citri-Gel and the Engine Kote are being discontinued, so if you think you want these products I would suggest obtaining them before the supply is gone.

The Citri-Gel is a thick multipurpose cleaner that is safe on just about any surface. Because it is a thick gel, it will not dry quickly and thus it gives you some dwell time whereby the product can work on the dirt and grime before you need to wash it off. Most other types of cleaners must be worked immediately or they will dry on the surface.

The Engine Kote is a spray on coating that dries to a non-sticky finish for enhancing and restoring the engine compartment. Many people like to use it in the fender wells also.

This product is being discontinued, so if you think you want these products I would suggest obtaining them before the supply is gone.

The APC+ is also being discontinued, so if you think you want these products I would suggest obtaining them before the supply is gone.

The old APC+ was an excellent all purpose cleaner with low foaming characteristics. The replacement version called, All Purpose Cleaner offers excellent foaming ability for cleaning interiors.

I'm not sure if APC+ works better or worse than #39, I would have to test to answer your question.

I personally like and use all three products.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[rahula]

Thanks for the answer Mike.

Where would I use citri gel instead of APC+? What I mean is do these two prodcuts target different types/kinds of stains and contamination? If they do the same job except that the former lasts longer to work with then I will only get APC+. Also can I and should I use any of these two products on the dash, rool over hoops, the boot and doors? I have a convertible car and have already bought NXT Tech Protectant.

Secondly I read that CG is very good for door jams and the like and also for the engine clean. Can I not use APC+ to do the same task? I am sorry for so many questions. I have learnt an awful lot about polishes, glazes and wax over the last three weeks but this is my next project and I am trying to learn about these too.

Also can I use Extra-Tough All Surface Cleaner instead of the two products mentioned above, does it work as well? I am only asking because I can buy this in the smaller bottle. Or how long will a gallon of the other two prodcuts last me for an average two car owner using it every 2-3 weeks?

Lastly this replacement for APC+ you mention has more foaming action. What other chareteristics of it cleaning properties have changed?

PS: is there any books or detailed information which Meguiar's plans on releasing about its products? I can see you make fantastic products but without clear information it seems that either we learn by using the product and making mistakes or maybe are not using them for the most effective purposes that they were designed for. Just my $0.02

[rahula]

anyone able to help? I would love to buy all of the products but don't want to do this. any suggestions?