Beading vs. Sheeting

[Slats]

Hey guys,
I'm new to this site. I detailed cars for about 3 years and I still love to use meguiars products on my own vehicles.

I had a quesion that I wanted to hear some opinions on. A guy once told me that Zymol was the best wax because it makes water sheet off the car instead of beading up. I tried it, but it seemed to work like any other wax. Beading makes sense to me, beacause if the surface is smooth as glass (for example after using a clay bar and waxing) the water should bead up on the surface. However, the beading tends to leave mineral deposits (water marks) or dust rings, and takes a long time to dry on its own. My question would then be, wouldn't it be better if there was a way for the wax to make the water sheet off? That way the car would dry quicker (like the car wash soaps that claim to do just that) and the water spots would be on there. What do you all think??

Thanks,
Slats :cool:

[TOGWT]

~One mans opinion / observation~

A polymer layer comprises long molecules that that form a hard, dense flat mesh that lies on the top of the much smaller paint molecule. Polymers are hydrophobic [lacking an affinity for water] the surface is smooth which in part causes ‘water sheeting’.

Carnauba Wax is inherently hydroscopic [readily taking up and retaining moisture] when exposed to water, wax swells and closes its pores, ‘beading’ simply means that a high surface tension is present.

What most people attribute to a film surface protection being functional is the visual indicator of water beading on the paint film surface. However, all water beading proves is that high surface tension is present, just because a product creates high surface tension, (water beading / sheeting) does not guarantee the coating is actually providing real and meaningful protection

~ Hope this helps ~

Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/

justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*

[Mike Phillips]

I would agree with what TOGWT wrote.

Water beading is only a sign of high surface tension, it does not automatically mean the surface is protected.

Water beading can be a visual indicator of a coating's presence. By that I mean, if your car's finish does not bead water before, cleaning, polishing and protecting, but does bead water after applying a protective wax coating, then as the beading diminishes over time and exposure to repeated washing or inclement weather, the lack of beading can be a visual indicator that the wax is wearing off.

Some Meguiar's waxes, like Gold Class wax, are not formulated to bead water well. Many people read into this that it is a product that doesn't protect well. The chemists that created this formula understand that water beading and then drying on painted surfaces can lead to problems, so they designed Gold Class Wax to not bead water.

While it's easy to explain the benefits of a wax that sheets water instead of beads water, it would appear that most people prefer a wax that beads water, if for no other reason, than it looks cool.

Mike

[gb387]

I agree most people like a wax to bead the water, but I think if they were to try one that sheets they might just like it better. Every wax that I have used made the water bead until I bought some NXT and it will sheet the water and I like sheeting MUCH better than beading. As Slats pointed out its easier to dry and less water spots especially on a dark color car.

Just my .02 cents!

[Slats]

Thanks guys!

So GC wax and the new wax will make water sheet?? That's immpresive. I usually tend to think of "high surface tension" as being better protected because it seems like the surface is better "sealed". Will GC and the new wax make the surface just as smooth to touch as other waxes and still make the water sheet off? I really like having an extremely slick surface.

Thanks,

Slats

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Slats
I usually tend to think of "high surface tension" as being better protected because it seems like the surface is better "sealed".

From what I can tell, most of the population believes if a product produces water beading, then the product also protects.

Will GC and the new wax make the surface just as smooth to touch as other waxes and still make the water sheet off? I really like having an extremely slick surface.

Thanks,

Slats

From my experience, Yes.

Mike :D

[AutoNova]

Pu #16 on a car if you want to see some fine beading.

[dave_st170]

NXT will sheet the water??
GC will bead the water???


This that right peeps???


Dave:bounce

[toyotaowner]

NXT sheets? I've never had that happen to me.

[gb387]

When I run my hose without the nozzle the water tends to sheet better than other waxes that I have used but if it rains it tends to bead. Just what I have experienced.

[SingingSabre]

Originally posted by gb387
When I run my hose without the nozzle the water tends to sheet better than other waxes that I have used but if it rains it tends to bead. Just what I have experienced.

:iagree:

That's been my experience, too.

[dave_st170]

Originally posted by gb387
When I run my hose without the nozzle the water tends to sheet better than other waxes that I have used but if it rains it tends to bead. Just what I have experienced.


That sound good!!!!
I have only done 2 coats of NXT. (12hrs between)
Normally i do 2 coats & 1 coat of DC3.

I will see how it goes!!!!

.Dave:bounce

[AutoNova]

Has anyone had experience with the NXT paste wax yet?

[RamAirV1]

That's been my experience too.


:iagree:



MPPP is another wax that tends to sheet rather than bead. And it also has outstanding durability.

RamAirV1

[dave_st170]

So if i applied to coats of NXT (12hr between) then a coat of
#16 would that bead or sheet??


Do you apply 1 or 2 coats of #16 wax after NXT???


Thanks
Dave:bounce

[jfelbab]

Originally posted by dave_st170
So if i applied to coats of NXT (12hr between) then a coat of
#16 would that bead or sheet??


Do you apply 1 or 2 coats of #16 wax after NXT???


Thanks
Dave:bounce

Anything with a coat of #16 on top will bead profusely.

I'd apply one thin coat of #16 and don't use a lot of rubbing pressure.

[dave_st170]

Thanks m8


Dave:xyxthumbs

[ktlimq]

I am still confused with sheeting/beeding.

On this picture, NXT beeds water just like other waxes.

http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51650&perpage=12&highlight=nxt&pagenumber=1

My 1992 Mercedes manual says I need to wax when water does not beed on paint. From the usage of terms cleaing and polishing, I guess Meguiars made Mercedes waxes at that time too.

[Murr1525]

Well, at the most basic, some waxes make water bead up on the surface, and some make water sheet off the car.

There can be plenty of discussion about which is better, but if you are reguarly maintaing your car, really it is just which you like better.

However, one thing about a wax that beads is that it is sort of a visual indicator as to if your wax is gone or not (when it stops beading, its gone). This is like what Mercedes said in the book you have. But they assume you used a wax that beads.

If you chose a wax that sheets, then it will never bead, whether there is wax or not, and you generaly have to use more of a touch test to see how your wax is doing.

Meguiars makes both kinds of waxes, since custmers like both kinds. Most of the waxes seem pretty clear cut, either beading or sheeting, though this Nxt seems to be a bit inbetween perhaps. (I havent tried it just yet to give my own opinion on Nxt wax).

Hope this helps, or ask some more..

[ktlimq]

When it rains, I see some cars have very thin sheet of water on every painted panel (it looks very different from the sheeting on Barry Meguiar's Car Care Clinics video – for final rinse take spray nozzle off your hose. . . . .. ).

I thought these cars were not waxed for a couple of years. But it could be that these cars have "sheeting" wax or sealant?

[Murr1525]

Well, if the car is generaly dirty, and the water seems to be in a thin layer, then it probably needs some wax.. you can sometimes make a good guess from the overall look of the ccar.

But you're right, lots of factors go into how it looks. Different companies waxes may have different results, and a hose rinse and rain fall will leave the water behind differently as well.

It may also help to point out that sheeting is short for 'sheeting off', as in most water should sheet off the paint, not cling to it. That is why some people like a sheeting wax, becasue as the water sheets off, a lot of the pollution in the water, like acid rain, will go off your car as well. A wax the beads can keep the water on the surface, allowing the water and acid rain to stay on your surface.

It may sound obvious, leaving acid rain on the car vs. getting more of it off, but if you are maintaining your finish, the acid should never get to do much damage, and it just comes back to personal preference.

Other questions?

[RamAirV1]

When water sheets on a waxed surface, it should roll of the paint relatively soon. If it just sits there, in my experience, the wax is probably gone.

RamAirV1

[buda]

If you are interested I have a study that was done of 25 of the more popular paint sealant and wax products used by detailers in the USA and Canada.

The controlled test measured three things:

1. Reflective gloss before and after application and the percentage of increase in gloss.

2. Gloss retention after 12 washings

3. Resistence to salt water corrosion

You will be surprised at the results, Zymol was one of the products tested, for your information.

Let me know and I will send you a copy.

Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

[dragonballz]

I found that even if the wax causes beading, if you do the "sheeting technique" with the hose, water will sheet off better than if there was no wax at all.