Rotary Practice

[Jeff Smith]

I know this is anal but I would love getting a rotary and learning how to properly use it. The problem is I have a brand new truck and don't think I want to start learning on that.

What do you folks think of someone going to say a local junkyard and picking up a car hood in decent shape to use as a practice panel.

Could possibly even get a hood off of a White Honda so the hardness would be the same as the paint on my white ridgeline.

And before I even set off to go about doing something like this, can someone offer up some ballpark figures as to just how much a hood should run me?

[Superior Shine]

Get a damaged hood for free from a bodyshop. I have 4 that I got.

Also ebay is a great place to get your rotory. I bought a Mac Tool buffer (same as DeWalt) for a little more than $50 plus shipping.

Ebay Buffer (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5998267525&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1)

[Jeff Smith]

Well,

Looks like I just did one better than just a hood. My mothers boyfriend has an old Chevy Geo that he needs to put through inspection.

It looks to have been sitting about a year. Dirty as heck. Several rust spots up front, apparently from rock chips. Plus it has some large patches on the roof and trunk lid apparently from oxidation.

So it looks like I have myself a project vehicle. We just pulled it off the Travel Dolly and put it behind my house for me to play with. The good thing is he is in absolutely no hurry and likely won't be worrying about putting it on the road till the middle of next year.

It's pretty bad so even if I completely hose it up it will be an improvement. I won't be starting on it for a few weeks as I have to look into getting the rotary and I have a few other projects I need to tackle first.

When I gear up to tackle it I'll make a project out of it and take plenty of pics and start a project thread in this forum. With a little patience and organization a detailed thread on this project from start to finish as done by a noobie should make for a very informative thread for others who have not taken the Rotary step yet. Hope so anyway.

[SpoiledMan]

Jeff,

I just picked up my latest addition (http://cgi.ebay.com/HITACHI-7-Variable-Speed-Sander-Polisher-New-119_W0QQitemZ5999485560QQcategoryZ42266QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the Hitachi SP18VA(H) for an excellent price. It is excellent quality and comes with a 5 year warranty. I'm wondering if this is a Makita in disguise. It's $134 shipped and insured!

[Accumulator]

Most anybody can use a rotary on a hood with no trouble at all. Get something like a fender (with some curves and crown lines) to practice on. Or yeah, use a car that nobody cares about. That Geo will work great. You'll soon see the diff between doing a hood and a fender ;)

If you a) use care and common sense, b) take your time, and c) never let your attention wander for even a second- you'll do fine. The rotary isn't really the paint eating animal that some make it out to be. But it *will* really bite you if you don't give it the proper respect. And I'd resist the temptation to do "just a little more" in search of absolute perfection. Better imperfect paint than a repaint, and thin clear won't show its problems immediately- it'll fail later, after some time and UV exposure.

[Bill D]

It's most certainly not at all "anal". It's using your head and making effort to find out out what using a rotary is like and identifying your strengths and weaknesses. :xyxthumbs to you for wanting to go about trying one out safely.

Like any serious athlete, one can never have too much practice IMO. I just pulled out my practice fenders last weekend and gave myself a "practice session". I'm anxiously waiting to try out some tips, fellow member Anthony Orosco was kind enough to share, next time I set up my fenders or, more preferably, work on a beater car again.

If you are going with a single scrap part, I would suggest getting a dark color. One of my fenders is maroon and that's where I see how I'm really coming along whereas on my silver one, I have more difficulty seeing my work so I just focus more on form and process when I'm using that one.

I have the DeWalt rotary and am now trying to focus on working with the variable speed while polishing.

[Jeff Smith]

I am looking through the previous forums at the Dewalts and Makitas. I'll try to learn from whats already posted before ordering. I might even put a summarization of what I find in this thread or start a new thread for others.

[SpoiledMan]

I have the equivalent to the 849, the Black and Decker 3138 or something like that. Identical machines with different cases. I bought it new in 1996 and it hasn't missed a beat. Just this week, I got the Hitachi that I posted about earlier. It's lighter, quieter and has that wonderful bail(sp) type handle that is much less fatiguing to *my* hands. I have about 30-45 minutes of experience with the Makita 9227 and about 2-3 hours with the Hitachi. Most everything about the Hitachi seems to be just like the Makita. Even the sound of the motor both free spinning and under load. Hopefully one day I will be able to do a direct comparison.

Things you will really appreciate:

The bail handle on the Makita and Hitachi.
Where the "lock" button is on the Makita and Hitachi.
The lower weight of the Makita and Hitachi.
The quieter operation of the Makita and Hitachi.

I still love my "old school" B&D and probably wont sell it and if I do, I will keep it in the near family. It's been a great machine but I am less fatigued after using the Hitachi than I am the B&D.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
I have the equivalent to the 849, the Black and Decker 3138 or something like that. Identical machines with different cases. I bought it new in 1996 and it hasn't missed a beat. Just this week, I got the Hitachi that I posted about earlier. It's lighter, quieter and has that wonderful bail(sp) type handle that is much less fatiguing to *my* hands. I have about 30-45 minutes of experience with the Makita 9227 and about 2-3 hours with the Hitachi. Most everything about the Hitachi seems to be just like the Makita. Even the sound of the motor both free spinning and under load. Hopefully one day I will be able to do a direct comparison.

Things you will really appreciate:

The bail handle on the Makita and Hitachi.
Where the "lock" button is on the Makita and Hitachi.
The lower weight of the Makita and Hitachi.
The quieter operation of the Makita and Hitachi.

I still love my "old school" B&D and probably wont sell it and if I do, I will keep it in the near family. It's been a great machine but I am less fatigued after using the Hitachi than I am the B&D.

The Makita is looking pretty good as it has the slower start speed. I am still researching all though. Thanks for the feedback.

[SpoiledMan]

Ehh, the Hitachi has the slow start also.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
Ehh, the Hitachi has the slow start also.

Hehe, understand. I am trying to look through the net to see if the Makita can be purchased with the Side Handle "AND" the BAIL Handle. Hope So. That would be nice.

[SpoiledMan]

Just something to think about. You will likely be able to use the adjustable handle that is being sold in the "Katrina" sale in place of the bail handle. Having used both, *I* like the bail handle better as it doesn't extend beyond the body of the buffer as far and therefore is able to get into tighter places.

If you would like to touch and feel all three, I think Lowes has them all in stock. Check the stores in your area.:)

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
Just something to think about. You will likely be able to use the adjustable handle that is being sold in the "Katrina" sale in place of the bail handle. Having used both, *I* like the bail handle better as it doesn't extend beyond the body of the buffer as far and therefore is able to get into tighter places.

If you would like to touch and feel all three, I think Lowes has them all in stock. Check the stores in your area.:)

Already picked up the Handle from Meg's. I might run by lowe's When I get off work in the Morning and have a peek. I have already found several "Parts" sites who have the handles availale.

My Ex Wife works at Lowe's (We still get along great). I'll have to borrow her from the Paint Dept. in the morning and make use of the Employee Discount Card she has.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
Jeff,

I just picked up my latest addition (http://cgi.ebay.com/HITACHI-7-Variable-Speed-Sander-Polisher-New-119_W0QQitemZ5999485560QQcategoryZ42266QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the Hitachi SP18VA(H) for an excellent price. It is excellent quality and comes with a 5 year warranty. I'm wondering if this is a Makita in disguise. It's $134 shipped and insured!

I checked on this and other folks seem to have the same feeling about it being a repackaged Makita

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by Accumulator
Most anybody can use a rotary on a hood with no trouble at all. Get something like a fender (with some curves and crown lines) to practice on. Or yeah, use a car that nobody cares about. That Geo will work great. You'll soon see the diff between doing a hood and a fender ;)

If you a) use care and common sense, b) take your time, and c) never let your attention wander for even a second- you'll do fine. The rotary isn't really the paint eating animal that some make it out to be. But it *will* really bite you if you don't give it the proper respect. And I'd resist the temptation to do "just a little more" in search of absolute perfection. Better imperfect paint than a repaint, and thin clear won't show its problems immediately- it'll fail later, after some time and UV exposure.

Thanks for the tips. I don't plan to jump on this thing. I'll ease into it after doing plenty of research.

This Geo should make for a good learning aide. It has quite the variety of stuff wrong with it. Severe Oxidation, Rust, Scratches, fading, the whole gambit. I know I won't be able to get it back to perfect but I guarantee the owner will be well pleased with it.

He also has a nice big red Ford Workvan for me to play with that he has at least kept reasonably clean and does wax it. But his wash methods are such that he just grabs any old rag and/or brush and uses dish soap. I guess he waxes it 2 times a year or so. I should be able to bring that out OK after warming up on the Geo.

I may snap some pics of the Geo this weekend. Normally I would wait for the sun but trust me, this thing doesn't have enough shine on it to even worry about trying for a reflection.

I might get with Mike and see if he can help me when I start doing this and try to make a learning tool up for other noobies. Lots of Pics, step by step follow ups, products used and such. I am in no hurry on it each phase can be done slowly and with planning. Should make for me a great learning experience.

I went to Makita's Website looking for local Retailers. Looks like 2 carry their Line. Lowe's and a local lumnber company. I'll be dropping by both here in a couple of hours. If they have the 9227, I'll buy it.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by Bill D
It's most certainly not at all "anal". It's using your head and making effort to find out out what using a rotary is like and identifying your strengths and weaknesses. :xyxthumbs to you for wanting to go about trying one out safely.

Like any serious athlete, one can never have too much practice IMO. I just pulled out my practice fenders last weekend and gave myself a "practice session". I'm anxiously waiting to try out some tips, fellow member Anthony Orosco was kind enough to share, next time I set up my fenders or, more preferably, work on a beater car again.

If you are going with a single scrap part, I would suggest getting a dark color. One of my fenders is maroon and that's where I see how I'm really coming along whereas on my silver one, I have more difficulty seeing my work so I just focus more on form and process when I'm using that one.

I have the DeWalt rotary and am now trying to focus on working with the variable speed while polishing.

Thanks for the encouragement and tips. The beater car thing is lined up. We took it off the travel dolly yesterday and it is sitting my driveway. if memory serves it is green. But heck, that may have been mold :rolleyes: I might try to put a few Pictures up before the weekend is out.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Jeff,

Yes you can buy the side handle for the Makita and at a decent price. You need to buy the Makita handle for the 9227 model as the ones from Dewalt or older Makitas have a different bolt size and will not fit.

Tim

[the other pc]

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
..I just picked up the Hitachi SP18VA(H) ... I'm wondering if this is a Makita in disguise...
Originally posted by j333_76484
I checked on this and other folks seem to have the same feeling about it being a repackaged Makita

The machines are most definitely not repackaged versions of the same unit nor is one a "knock-off" of the other. All the molded parts and castings are different.
http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/grinder/sp18va/sp18vasandl.jpg
http://www.makita.com.gr/catalog/images/products/leiansi/9227CB_b.jpg

The eerily similar functionality and may suggest that one was a "blank sheet design after an engineering analysis" ;) of the other.

It would be interesting to see if any parts (other than the backing plate) are interchangeable between the two.


PC.

[SpoiledMan]

Originally posted by the other pc
The machines are most definitely not repackaged versions of the same unit nor is one a "knock-off" of the other. All the molded parts and castings are different.

The eerily similar functionality and may suggest that one was a "blank sheet design after an engineering analysis" ;) of the other.

It would be interesting to see if any parts (other than the backing plate) are interchangeable between the two.


PC.

I'd bet that the internals are VERY similar. The trigger, trigger lock, speed control and spindle lock are pretty much all the same with the exception being color. I tells ya, ya has ta use wanna deese tings to reelly preciate the similars!!:D

[Rusty Bumper]

Originally posted by SpoiledMan
Just something to think about. You will likely be able to use the adjustable handle that is being sold in the "Katrina" sale in place of the bail handle. Having used both, *I* like the bail handle better as it doesn't extend beyond the body of the buffer as far and therefore is able to get into tighter places.

If you would like to touch and feel all three, I think Lowes has them all in stock. Check the stores in your area.:)
Meguiar's sells buffer handles?

Edit: Ok, I saw it on ebay.....Pretty neat looking.

[the other pc]

Originally posted by Rusty Bumper
Meguiar's sells buffer handles?... Used to be a catalog item but as I understand it they’re discontinued. Get ‘em while you can. When the stock’s gone, it’s gone.

Here’s a link with a shot of it in action on a Dynabrade buffer (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5224&perpage=10&highlight=iamwaxman&pagenumber=3).

PC.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey Jeff,

Yes you can buy the side handle for the Makita and at a decent price. You need to buy the Makita handle for the 9227 model as the ones from Dewalt or older Makitas have a different bolt size and will not fit.

Tim

I know Tim has left us but I wanted to put this out. I just picked up my Makite 9227 C today. I don;t know if they recently started doing this or not but it came with both handles. I think you guys call one the BAIL handle and the other is the side Handle.

I'll be working on my truck this weekend with the DA and then after that is done I will be looking at this Geo as a project for the Rotary.

Thank you all for your input.

[tumbler]

here's my setup .. I call it my "rotary test lab" :D

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Rotary%20Lab%20-adobe/images/Dsc00965.jpg

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Rotary%20Lab%20-adobe/images/Dsc00966.jpg

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by tumbler
here's my setup .. I call it my "rotary test lab" :D



Sweeeet. I have an old geo that has the whole spectrum of problems. Swirls, Spider webs. Scratches of all depths, oxidation. You name it, it's got it. Should make an excellent training aide. It's sitting in my Driveway. I threw a coat of #66 on it about a month ago to cover it until I can get to it. Hope to start in November.

[inthedetails]

OK..so a rotary wannabe noob here.

Are there different pads for the rotary as with the PC? And if so, what are they are what is their recmmended use. (I know Mike posted a great guide for the PC, anyone have anything similar.)

Jeff,

Keep me posted, I be waiting on every word, as I am considering practice throught the winter for a debut in spring. (One more tool in the box).

On a separate but related note. I have a '93 Toyota Pickup that I recently clayed, polished and topped with NXT Tech Wax. I noticed that while polishing all my pads ended up red. So it must be single stage paint right? I guess I figured that in '93 it would have been 2 stage. Any thoughts?

[tumbler]

i only use the rotary for compounding so i have 2.. an orange and a yellow pad

i use my pc for pre sealants, and sealants and mild cleanser polishes..

i had the red paint come off on honda as seen above.. no biggie..

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Originally posted by inthedetails
OK..so a rotary wannabe noob here.

Are there different pads for the rotary as with the PC? And if so, what are they are what is their recmmended use. (I know Mike posted a great guide for the PC, anyone have anything similar.)

Jeff,

Keep me posted, I be waiting on every word, as I am considering practice throught the winter for a debut in spring. (One more tool in the box).

On a separate but related note. I have a '93 Toyota Pickup that I recently clayed, polished and topped with NXT Tech Wax. I noticed that while polishing all my pads ended up red. So it must be single stage paint right? I guess I figured that in '93 it would have been 2 stage. Any thoughts?

You can use the exact same 6.5" Soft-Buff pads for the rotary as you're using for the PC, if you so desire. Just pick up a W-64 backing plate for your rotary and you'll be good to go. :xyxthumbs

Otherwise you could use the 8" pads, but in my opinion they are harder to work with.

[tumbler]

i felt weird using 8" pads.. the feel just did not feel right, so i scaled down to 7.5" and find that a lot more controllable


so you may wanna conisder 7.5" pads ?

just my $.02

[LiquidBlack]

When are you going to hit the geo? Any pics of the car in its current condition?

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by LiquidBlack
When are you going to hit the geo? Any pics of the car in its current condition?

No pics yet. But I do plan on taking my time on it and trying to piece togehter a nice thread about it. Nwebie's first crack at a Rotary with pics and all that. Got one more Van in the driveway I wanna get squared away before starting the Geo.