holograms with Optimum NOT w/ DACP

[tumbler]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why i got Rotary Holograms with Optimum Compound, and not DACP ?

I recently did my truck using
Optimum compound w/ rotary @ 1000 to 1200 rpm ,
orange pressure pad,

and it left holograms. :-(

I then tried Optimum polish
orange pad @ 1200 to remove,
and it did nothing.. :-(

I then tried this.
yellow cutting pad,
@ 1200 rpm using #83 DACP,

and all the holograms are gone !!!

However, the DACP just threw sling everywhere.. (even with a mild spray)

I was using the same thin ring of product around my orange contant pressure pad.

I was told i was using too much of the Optimum compound ? But the same thin ring worked for DACP worked ? So am to use even less of it ? Hmmm ?

How much DACP should I be applying to the pad. I was going to re-try by putting "quarter sized" dabs in the 12 o'clock , 3 o'clock and 6 and 9 positions ?

or I could put a few dabs onto the section of the hood/fender etc.. etc.

How much DACP should i apply to the area ?


To those watching me yesterday, they were saying, what's the point of a rotary, if you gotta go over it again using a diff process or use a second machine ?

which takes this conversation full circle again as to why holograms appeared with Opt compound and NOT with DACP ?

I think rotary with no. 83 DACP is the clear winner. I'll follow up to this post in the Click N Brag with full pics.. in the upcoming days..

I just wanted to start pooling some answers, so i can sleep at night.. cuz this really bothers me.

thanks for reading

[Murr1525]

You have used Optimum several times before, or this was first try with both?

[tumbler]

1st time optimum,

i've used DACP hundreds of times and like i said, never gives me probs..

on autopia, they told me it was the amount i spread on the pad, but it turns out afterwards, that i was using less than what was recommended to me..

my last try will be to place a few drops of it on the car's panel instead of the pad..

[Murr1525]

At least you know the DACP will fix the problem.

Holograms can come from dry buffing, so using too little could be a problem. I'm not familiar in any way with the Optimum, but I guess a few people like it. Maybe it just takes some speacial touch...

[tumbler]

ahh.. you make a darn good point..

so then if holograms do come from dry buffing, i don't have enough on.. Hmmm ?

i too will try it again with even more product and see if it works..

oh, but yes, THANK GOD for Meguiar's DACP..

I'm just glad i wasn't doing this on a customers car.. while they were standing over me..

[Teak]

Just some questions for you.

Originally posted by tumbler
Does anyone have an explanation as to why i got Rotary Holograms with Optimum Compound, and not DACP ?

I recently did my truck using
Optimum compound w/ rotary @ 1000 to 1200 rpm ,
orange pressure pad,

and it left holograms. :-(

I then tried Optimum polish
orange pad @ 1200 to remove,
and it did nothing.. :-(

Did you use a new orange pad?
Did you try using a polishing pad?
Did you try a higher speed?
Did you apply pressure to the rotary?


I then tried this.
yellow cutting pad,
@ 1200 rpm using #83 DACP,

and all the holograms are gone !!!

Did you wipe own the panels with a 50/50 mix or prepsol to check for swirling?

However, the DACP just threw sling everywhere.. (even with a mild spray)

I was using the same thin ring of product around my orange contant pressure pad.

I was told i was using too much of the Optimum compound ? But the same thin ring worked for DACP worked ? So am to use even less of it ? Hmmm ?

How much DACP should I be applying to the pad. I was going to re-try by putting "quarter sized" dabs in the 12 o'clock , 3 o'clock and 6 and 9 positions ?

or I could put a few dabs onto the section of the hood/fender etc.. etc.

How much DACP should i apply to the area ?

A little OP goes a long way, so less is better (IMHO). Once the pad is primed dime-sized dots on the quarter hours of the pad, this is what most people do most polishing products. If you use to much of any compoud or polishing product the product will be ineffective at removing defects and could leave holograms, haze or marring.

To those watching me yesterday, they were saying, what's the point of a rotary, if you gotta go over it again using a diff process or use a second machine ?

which takes this conversation full circle again as to why holograms appeared with Opt compound and NOT with DACP ?

I think rotary with no. 83 DACP is the clear winner. I'll follow up to this post in the Click N Brag with full pics.. in the upcoming days..

I just wanted to start pooling some answers, so i can sleep at night.. cuz this really bothers me.

thanks for reading
Go get some sleep, as this nothing to lose ZZZ's over.

What was the starting point of the truck? Defects?
What was the rest of the process for the truck?
What kind of truck are you working on?
Did you follow-up DACP with a lighter polish and pad combo?
Previous care given to the paint?


Some paint systems respond differently to different products and this is a day to day challenge of the detailer. So experimentation is needed to find the right combo for the vehicle.


Do not be afraid to follow-up the rotary with a mild polish and pad combo on the PC for perfect results. The rotary is meant for paint defect correction an the PC for polishing.

Eric

[Murr1525]

Have to agree with Eric, marks can be left from too much, or too little product.. So dont go too overboard either.

[Djmigs]

strange most if not some swear by optimum being the best(that being said in autopia) then #80...its just shows Meg will not fail....trust in the name...im not knocking on it just showing it good to be open minded and what ever works to your eyes....
was planing to try it out(optimum) sometime...

[Pete-FWA]

This leads me to a simple question: which is worse, a bit of slinging that I have to wipe later or holograms and swirls that don't wipe out?

So many people like the "dry compounding" method, only to see the marks later. Slinging is going to happen from time to time with a rotary. If it didn't, I'd be assured that the operator wasn't using enough material.

**Slinging, defined as a bit of extra material, not globs and runny puddles all over the panel and the garage wall :rolleyes:

[tumbler]

Eric,
First let me say thank you for taking such time on my post.



I wiped it down with a clean and dry MF towel. The car was washed and had left over zaino product on.


Originally posted by Teak
Just some questions for you.


Did you use a new orange pad?
Did you try using a polishing pad?
Did you try a higher speed?
Did you apply pressure to the rotary?

A - My orange 7.5" pad was not brand new.
A - No I did not try a polishing pad.
A -Yes, I did try a higher speed 1000, 1200 max
A - I applied a wee bit of pressure but not much.


Did you wipe own the panels with a 50/50 mix or prepsol to check for swirling?

A - I wiped down the panels with a dry MF towel after.

[B]
A little OP goes a long way, so less is better (IMHO). Once the pad is primed dime-sized dots on the quarter hours of the pad, this is what most people do most polishing products. If you use to much of any compoud or polishing product the product will be ineffective at removing defects and could leave holograms, haze or marring.

I will try this

[B]
Go get some sleep, as this nothing to lose ZZZ's over.

What was the starting point of the truck? Defects?

A - Had miles of zaino on it, but the dealership "swirled it up" quite a bit.

What was the rest of the process for the truck?

A -DACP w/ rotary @ 1200
A - VM, RMG, EX-P x 3 , topped with Natty's Blue x 2
and it looks fantastic !!

What kind of truck are you working on?
A - Chevy Trailblazer eXT

Did you follow-up DACP with a lighter polish and pad combo?

A - yes, Clearkotes VM and RMG, with my porter cable bule and green pad speed 5

Previous care given to the paint?

A - miles of zaino z2 pro on it..


Some paint systems respond differently to different products and this is a day to day challenge of the detailer. So experimentation is needed to find the right combo for the vehicle.


Do not be afraid to follow-up the rotary with a mild polish and pad combo on the PC for perfect results. The rotary is meant for paint defect correction an the PC for polishing.

Eric

[showtime]

I try to find the point where there's just enough not to sling. Too much is as bad as too little. Also try using a less agressive pad. I RARELY use a cutting pad for anything, just scratch removal. I'll use a polishing/finishing pad for everything. DACP on a polishing pad followed by #80 on a finishing pad will get rid of virtually all swirls and leave an excellent finish. I actually like 3M pads (There's only one) because they have a good balance of cut/polish and don't holigram. Try to experiment with pads, you may prefer one to another. I don't have any experience with optimum but it seems like it's just the "flavor of the month" over "there". I have a collection of these types of products and stopped buying them all together when I realized I reached for Meguiar's 90% of the time.

[gregcavi]

here is my opinion:

optimum polish is meant to have very very little polish used. If your not removing anything then you used to much. I usually use 2 small quarter sized beads of polish per panel TOPS. You are right on with the speed of 1200rpm... anything higher doesnt work as well with optimum.

DACP never really worked for me. To much sling and left halo's for me. It also didnt have the working time that i enjoy with optimum.

This is clearly just my opinion though.

Greg

[tumbler]

I do agree that it may be the flavour of the month ..

well i finally uploaded the pics.. Like i said, THANK GOD FOR DACP, as it was able to "undo" all my Holograms..

The Swirls

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/swirl.jpg

The yellow area indicates the Optimum area done. The Red indicates , simply a swirled yet to be done with any product.

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/swirlandhologram.jpg

Thanks to DACP I managed to save the Day !!!

The Afters..

VM, RMG, with pc
EX-P x 3
Natty's Blue x 2 by hand

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/Dsc01023.jpg

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/Dsc01026.jpg

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/Dsc01032.jpg

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/Dsc01029.jpg

http://www.simonjagassar.com/Web%20Images/Trailblazer%20Rotary%20-adobe/images/Dsc01034.jpg

[tumbler]

Holograms can come from dry buffing, so using too little could be a problem.

this was mentioned above..

some say, use more ? some say use less ?

I'm just gonna try both and get back to the board with my findings..

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[showtime]

How do you like Natty's Blue? Regular Natty's is one of my favorite pure waxes.....aside from #16 which I save for my vehicles.

[tumbler]

natty's blue is the most addictive topper i've used..

i absolutely love it . i use it as much as i can..

now with winter approaching, i top my ex-p with natty's every month..

[tumbler]

PROBLEM FIXED !!! :bounce

Rotary with Optimum Compound and Optimum Polish

Needed more product:
I was NOT using enough product. Added more to my pad, 2 circles as discussed above and voila ! Unfortunately, it had a lot more sling like DACP, but worth it in the end. Nothing good old painter's drapes won't solve in the future.

Needed more Speed:
Furthermore, i found that by kicking up the speed from 1200, to 1400rpm was WAAAaaaaaaaaaaay more effective as well..

Overall:

I still prefer DACP over Optimum. why ?

DACP uses less product,
spreads and works in better
gives a polish without adding a second bottle to the mix

Scorecards: Meguiar's 9.95 / 10 :D vs Optimum 4.0 / 10 :mad:

Thanks for your help all..