DACP #83 & Rotary = BIG problems

[Wally]

Hi all,

My first post and immediately a serious problem (for me...)
I bought a while ago a botlle of Meg. #83 DACP with that gorgeous almond smell.

But applying it with a rotary is asking for problems.
First of all, the product splatters almost everywhere (and be shure that I'm very skilled with a rotary), there are everywhere on the car litlle white dots wich are almost impossible te remove, today I did a black car and the only solution was claying again !!!
Second problem that I have is sticking : whatever speed, wathever pad, the product always makes sticky patches on the paintwork like smeared out bubble gum, again, impossible to remove without claybar or water/alcohol solution.

What is my problem here, I tried everything with different pads, misting with water, prime the pads or not, use much or less product at different speeds, it's all the same trouble.

Thanks for helping me ...

[tumbler]

great product in #83 .. don't give up on it :D

for the splatter or sling - 90% prep.. I tape all the areas around the glass, rubber seals and then use "painters drape" it does go almost everywhere.. I've misted my pad with water and that seems to help too


blothches, -not going on evenly I've had those too and have had to use the tip of my pad and tilt it, and almost "cut them off" no biggie as dacp is forgiving that way. I dunno what the cause is, but i'd gather too much product going on too unevenly.

and yes, try to start at the slowest speed

and practice, practice, practice..

[Mike Phillips]

Splatter is also a cause of either too much product being used or wrong technique for picking up your bead or strip of product.

You can watch our how-to video online at the below link and in the video it will show you how the technique for picking up a strip of product.

Watch our how-to video here,

How to remove paint defects (http://bettercarcare.com/articles.php?articleId=31)

Or you can purchase it here,

Professional Education Series Video (http://www.meguiars.com/estore/product_detailpage.cfm?product=Professional-Education-Series-Video&sku=PES-VIDEO)

http://www.meguiars.com/estore/images/product_pesVIDEO.gif

M83 can become gummy to use sometimes, the best thing to do is to clean your pad often.

[Mike Phillips]

Whoops! I forgot this part...

Welcome to Meguiar's Online! :wavey

Sorry your first post is about a bad experience.

[Wally]

Ok, I'm standing strong on that....:cool:
But the splatter is mainly on other panels, like when you do one door, it splatter's tothe next door and even onto the roof !
Those litlle spots are damn hard to remove, I even used dacp by hand when finalizing my car to remove all that ****.
As for product use : let's say for half a hood I put my product onto the hood itself, about a line of 8-10 inch long, then picking it up with the pad while starting to polish...

[Wally]

Hehe, thanks all, it seems like we're posting simultanously !
I watch the video right now, so you guy's have time to answer..LOL

[tumbler]

awesome, gonna pick up the vid for sure..

thanks Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Wally

As for product use : let's say for half a hood I put my product onto the hood itself, about a line of 8-10 inch long, then picking it up with the pad while starting to polish...

Too much product, (assuming your strip is about a 1/4 inch thick)

Try working only a quarter of the hood and use a strip of product about 4-6 inches after your pad is broken in.

The last car I buffed out with the rotary buffer using M83 was a Mercedes-Benz Kompressor; I buffed each panel using M83 with the W-8006 foam pad. Used the appropriate amount of product and cleaned my pad often using a terry cloth towel.

No problems.

[tumbler]

I also try to give it a good wipe with a damp MF towel as i noticed the pads do get filled , especially when working on larger vehicles like suv's

[Wally]

Mike,

The thickness is that from the botlle itself (donno the English name, but it's the one that flip's open like a Zippo Fluid botlle)

I also have the idea that when I use less, I work alone with the pad. Then I can't see any product (or it is that thin that it is almost invincible), and then the pad will fall apart (litlle pieces torn out of it) due to the fact that there is no product to let it "glide" over the surface...

(Excuse my technical English...)

Another problem is the lack of technical expierience and aftermarket sales in Belgium...
Detailing is as unknown here as litlle green men....

[zey]

Wally, I used to have the problems you're facing right now. From learning and practicing, I have a few answers for myself...

1. If product becomes gummy on the surface...
Most probably the surface is too warm to be worked on, or I apply too much product, or my pad is soaked up. As what I learned from Mike, I use a piece of terry cloth towel to soak up the excessive product from the foam pad. It works miracle.

2. If excessive dust is produced...
Most probably I buff the surface too long until the product turn dry and become dust residue. I will also use a tooth brush to clean up the foam pad once in a while.

3. If splatter always happen...
Try not to apply too much product on the surface when picking up, or foam pad could be soaked wet, or you didn't pick up the product at the right position (10 o'clock) with the right tilting angle.

This is just the limited knowledge I have, I think certainly there're more.

[Wally]

The gummy-ing was there from the first application, on the hood, I will have used too many product then (I apply on the hood and pick it up with the 10 o'clock way)

What bothers me the most is that when I finished a panel, all the surrounding is covered in white dots (more pinponts : . ), extremely different to remove, I had to use a claybar for them !

I tried to prime the pad with a mist of water and quick detail but that made no difference.

And at last, I saw some hologramming, :wall: , altough I did those spots again with some finishing polish.

[tumbler]

a further "side" drape possibly for the sling..

lessen the product a bit more

change your pad ?

my $.02

[Wally]

For the moment, I have the SONUS pads (SFX and DAS), and two pads delivered with my FLEX rotary.

Be gentle, I'm from Belgium and not in the force to buy Meguiars pads, the only thing they sell here is soap and tyre shine in the local auto-store.

I start always with the medium pad and #83, then I decide wich is best (harder-softer-products...)

The amount I use is, like I said, a stripe of 8-10 inch long, direct onto the panel to start with, then dotting some more after a while onto the pad itself...

I always finish with the softest pad and some finalizing polish to smooth out holograms (if there are of course) and bring up the gloss...

[Mike Phillips]

Another option might be to hold off on using the M83 and go with either M84 or M80 Speed Glaze.

I'm going to forward the link to this thread to Jason Rose to make him aware of this issue you're having.

[Wally]

That's what I meant, here you get response in a few hours, here in Belgium you don't get answer to mail/phone even a visit to an 'importer" of Meguiars stuff, they're just not interested in my problems !

Thanks everybody !

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

It sounds like most everything I would've said has been covered, I just have one other input that may help you:

If you have the ability to spread the product onto the panel with a D.A. machine, you may want to try that. Once you've got a nice layer covering the panel, just head back to the rotary, lightly prime the pad with some QD spray and work the product. Ideally this will minimize or eliminate the splatters, and prevent gumming of the pad.

Before you buff each panel, use a soft-bristled nylon brush (I use a denture brush, personally) to pull extra product out of the pad.

:xyxthumbs

[Wally]

Sadly I don't own a DA polisher (no Porter Cable or similar in Belgium), I found something from Makita, the B06040 at a price of 600$ :wall: .
My Flex Rotary costs 250$ and is been widely used in all bodyshops here.
Next time I wil ltry to spread #83 with a MF-applicator and work in a very smal area (30 on 30 cm, about a foot in square) so the polish will not dry or splatter.

PS : How do you compare SONUS pads against Meg. pads, anybody that has both and can give me some info ?

Pads here are only available from 3M at a cost of 45$ each, :D
Polish from 3M or Automagic costs about 50$ for 16 oz.
Meguiars is NOT available, they only sell car wash soap, NXT spray wax and tyre shine....
Poor Belgians we are, every car I detail in the way you guy's do results in lot's of OOOOO and AAAAAA, even from the bodyshop owner right down my street , :bounce

[RDVT4ME]

Some people who have problems with #83 will use #80 instead. You just have to make more passes as it is not as aggressive.

[Wally]

I went to my dealer today and brought all my stuff with me, in the timle when they serviced my car I attacke da few scrap panels to try out some techniques.
I goes way better to use a foam sponge to apply product onto the panel, smear it out and then start polishing with the rotary.
(instead of putting a line onto the panel with the 10 o'clock way...)
I also goes much better when I mist the pad with water and use a slightly softer pad then the orange DAS pad from Sonus wich is in my opinion (and that from the dealers) a very hard compund pad...
I also get almost no splatter and the product is evenly divided, with the 10 o'clock way, you always had a print onto the pad of the product 'line', now the pad is evenly soaked after a few passes...

Problem is half solved now...

[tumbler]

nice, i'm going to try the line as in the video, haven't done that yet..

applying by a separate sponge eh ? will gave that go as well

i got more splatter with my yellow pad , my orange pad was much better as well

[Wally]

Here are some pics of a pad that I used three times, the outer edge is completely "crumbled" and you clearly can see the line of product when I aplied it directly to the pad.
I my opinion, then the outer edge will burn and the product will soak into the pad without working (just sticking and gum up...)
When applying with a separate foam sponge or MF applicator onto the panel, yu get an evenly spreaded working surface.

Any professional comments on this ?

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/uploads/5646/116_1667.JPG

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/uploads/5646/116_1668.JPG

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/uploads/5646/116_1669.JPG

[Mike Phillips]

Where the pad is worn away on the edge is from running it into anything that isn't flat and smooth. It's normal and often times unavoidable when buffing out cars that have sharp edges or other things protruding off of them, like windshield wipers, emblems and badges, trim, etc.

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Originally posted by Wally
I went to my dealer today and brought all my stuff with me, in the timle when they serviced my car I attacke da few scrap panels to try out some techniques.
I goes way better to use a foam sponge to apply product onto the panel, smear it out and then start polishing with the rotary.
(instead of putting a line onto the panel with the 10 o'clock way...)
I also goes much better when I mist the pad with water and use a slightly softer pad then the orange DAS pad from Sonus wich is in my opinion (and that from the dealers) a very hard compund pad...
I also get almost no splatter and the product is evenly divided, with the 10 o'clock way, you always had a print onto the pad of the product 'line', now the pad is evenly soaked after a few passes...

Problem is half solved now...

Cool deal :xyxthumbs

[EdT]

I just ran into the same problem too with #83, it gums up in less than 10 seconds with a white LC polishing pad at 1200rpm, I tried slowing it down to 600rpm and it was a little better, but still had gumming issues. I used a bit of QD to get it going, but was told a Meg's techincal rep that its not good to use too much of it with #83. I tried the rotary with #80 and it was much better, it was gliding more smoothly than #83

[TH0001]

I saw a post on Autopia, supposedly somebody spoke to customer car or a rep and they said that 83 shouldn't be used on a car with a wax or sealent on it already. I laughed and figured that couldn't be it but...

I tried it on 1/2 my hood with 26 and it gummed right away..

I tried in on the 1/2 that I hadn't waxed (after washing with dawn and claying) and no gumming and it worked like charm...

Instresting

[EdT]

Originally posted by TH0001
I saw a post on Autopia, supposedly somebody spoke to customer car or a rep and they said that 83 shouldn't be used on a car with a wax or sealent on it already. I laughed and figured that couldn't be it but...

I tried it on 1/2 my hood with 26 and it gummed right away..

I tried in on the 1/2 that I hadn't waxed (after washing with dawn and claying) and no gumming and it worked like charm...

Instresting

LoL ....that was me that posted that on Autopia !, and that person is an consultant for Megiuar's

[Mike Phillips]

Let's be careful to make sure recognition/credit/fault is always given to the correct person, good or bad, it's hard enough to keep on top of he-said, she-said, as it is.

Thanks. :)

[TH0001]

Well for what its worth, EDT, I think your correct. But that kinda *****....