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Mike Phillips
Jul 6th, 2005, 04:10 PM
Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2965)


Tips & Techniques for using the G-100a (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=G-100) to remove swirls and other paint defects.

Products Used
Quik Clay System (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=g-11)
G-100a (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=G-100)
W-8006 foam polishing pad (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=W-80)
W-9006 foam finishing pad (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=W-90)
#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=M-83)
#80 Speed Glaze (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?parentURL=index_pro.cfm&sku=M-80)
Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax (http://www.meguiars.com/whatsnew/techwax.cfm)
Ultimate Wipe (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=M-9)
Ultimate Bonnet (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=m-99)

First wash the car thoroughly. Pay special attention to loosening and removing any dirt particles from cracks and crevices to prevent these dirt particles from being introduced onto the surface during the polishing process. After washing and drying, inspect the surface both visually for below surface defects and with the palm of your clean hand for above surface defects.

If you feel any tiny little bumps still attached to the finish after washing, proceed to clay the paint to safely remove these contaminants. After claying each panel, wipe the panel down with a quick detailer to remove any residue.

Using Painters Tape, tape-off any plastic trim or components that you don't not want to get product onto and also tape-off any edges, high points or areas with known thin paint.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/3aaaaaaaaaa1.jpg

Your car may not look like the below car, but the taped-off areas should... :D

http://forum.bettercarcare.com/gallery/data/500/6LotusTape4.jpg


Let's begin!

Scottwax1 Scottwax1 Scottwax1


Using M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to Remove Serious Below Surface Defects such as deep swirls, scratches and etchings in the paint

This step would be for car finishes that have been neglected and/or abused. In most cases you would want to first do a Test Spot using M80 Speed Glaze and then check your results. If M80 Speed Glazes wasn't aggressive enough then you would try something more aggressive and this would be Meguiar's M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.


Applying #83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish with the G-100
Speed Setting - 5.0
Arm Speed - Slow Arm Speed
Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
Overlapping motions - Overlap each pass by 50%, move the polisher using different patterns
Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working


The below diagram represents swirls and scratches evenly distributed throughout your car's finish from a horizontal point of view.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2swirlsinpaint.JPG

You can see that in order to remove these below surface defects you need to remove the highest areas of the paint until they are level with the lowest depths of the deepest scratches. In essence, you must remove paint.


When using the G100 Dual Action Polisher to remove defects, (This is different then merely applying a polish or a wax because you're trying to remove paint), you need to use a slow arm speed, overlap you passes by 50% and apply between 15 pounds and 20 pounds of pressure onto the head of the polisher.

To get an idea of how hard this is to push down, simply place your polisher onto an everyday bathroom scale and then press down on the head of the polisher and take note of how hard you're pushing. If you like, you can even tape some heavy plastic around the scale as you can see that I did in the below picture and actually turn the polisher on and practice pushing down as you move the polisher around. Also listen to the sound of the motor to get an idea of how it sounds at the pressure you are applying. Make sure you have someone to hold the scale in place when you do this.

15 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/215poundsM83dacp.jpg

20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/220poundsM83dacp.jpg

Move the polisher in different directions
You also want to go in at least two different directions, for example, from where you're standing, side to side, then front to back. You can also move the polisher in a kitty/corner fashion for complete, thorough and uniform cleaning action.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PolisherPathOfTravel.jpg

Only work a small area at a time
This will vary according to the shape, curve or body line of the panel you are polishing but for example on a large flat panel, you want to stay around a 12" to 18" squared area. The point being, don't try to work to large of an area all at once or you won't remove the defects equally everywhere.

One thing to remember and that's when doing the most important step, the cleaning step, (that's the step where you're removing the swirls and scratches), don't tackle to big of an area at one time. You won't be able to effectively remove enough paint to remove the below surface defects. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make when first starting out is to try to work to large of an area during the cleaning step. Later, after you've done the work, i.e. removed the defects, you can then work larger sections at a time when applying a pure polish or a wax because at this time you're not trying to remove defects, just apply a thin coating.

To give you an idea of how large of an area to work at one time, (or a better description would be how small an area), look at the picture below, it shows two microfibers spread-out on the hood of our Pilot.

The white one is our older, M9910 Ultimate Wipe microfiber polishing cloth and the gold one is our newer Supreme Shine Microfiber. The correct size of ab area to work during the cleaning step would be the size of the Ultimate Wipe, not the size of the Supreme Shine.


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2MicroShineMicrofiber1.jpg

The Ultimate Wipe measures approximately 16" square. Work an area about this size, smaller or a little larger depending on the shape of the panel.







Overlap your sections
When you move on to a new section, overlap into the old section for a uniform end results.


If you're applying a pure polish, or a polish/wax or a pure wax, then you can polish larger areas at a time, use a faster arm speed, use less pressure and make fewer passes because when applying these types of products you're not trying to remove paint, merely do a good job of working the product in and leaving behind a thin even coating.

This does not apply when using a cleaner/wax like ColorX on neglected paint because in this situation you're again trying to remove paint.

The point of the cleaning step is to remove the defects. Because the G100's polishing action is gentle and therefore safe, it takes time to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove a defect, so concentrate hard at doing your best work when doing the cleaning step, don't skimp out during the step and try to rush it, your results will reflect that you didn't do a good job the first time.



Using M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to remove light or shallow below surface defects such as deep swirls, scratches and etchings in the paint

This step would be for car finishes that have are in pretty good shape except of light/shallow swirls, scratches and etchings.

In most cases you would want to first do a Test Spot using M80 Speed Glaze and then check your results. If M80 Speed Glazes wasn't aggressive enough then you would try something more aggressive and this would be Meguiar's M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Another option would be to apply a second application of M80 Speed Glaze and work it really well and check to see if this removed the defects instead of switching to the M83.

Applying M80 Speed Glaze is also excellent for re-polishing show cars to bring them back up to show car status. M80 Speed Glaze perfectly prepares any paint for application of your choice of wax.

Here are two cars that have been re-polished using M80 Speed Glaze to remove light swirls and scratches and prepare them for display.

The Panic Parrot
This wild Pro Street 1950 Studebaker Starlight Coupe is named Panic Parrot. Owner Steve Metz Creator of Muscle Machines is famous for taking his wildest imaginations and turning them into reality! With the Panic Parrot he has created yet another wild super rod in the same legacy of the Frantic Frog. And it not only looks wild, it is wild with a fuel injected 632 cubic inch Chevrolet engine.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PanicTestSpot2crop.jpg

Sniper (http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_9802_snipe/)
"Sniper", a 1954 Plymouth Belvedere that was totally reworked and customized by Troy Trepanier features a Viper V-10 engine and modified drive-train from a GTS Coupe. Unveiled at the SEMA Show as part of Hot Rod Magazines 50 years of Hot Rodding Showcase, it has been the recipient of many design awards.

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/medium/2704sniperwithnxt.jpg

If you use M80 Speed Glaze to showcase your talents as a detailer and create a flawless, liquid wet-looking finish on your car... then you're in good company!

Applying #80 Speed Glaze with the G-100
Speed Setting - 4.5 to 5.0
Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Speed Glaze is rich in polishing oils a little bit goes a long ways


When attempting to remove light swirls and scratches from your car's finish, use between 15 and 20 pounds of pressure to the head of the polisher. After polishing at these more aggressive pressures, you can always lighten up and make a few cover-passes at 10 to 15 pounds of pressure.

For very light polishing, you need only apply between 10 and 15 pounds of pressure to the head of the polisher.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/215poundsM80speedGlaze.jpg

For a little more aggressive cleaning action with the M80 Speed Glaze, increase your pressure to the 18, 19 and 20 pound range.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/220poundsM80speedGlaze.jpg

If you decide to re-polish any panels with a second application of the M80 Speed Glaze, be sure to first remove any leftover residue first before applying fresh product. This will insure the remaining residue will not adulterate or dilute the fresh product for best results.

After you've cleaned and polished your car's paint with either one-step process, (M80 Speed Glaze), or a two step process, (M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by M80 Speed Glaze), and have wiped off any and all residue left on the finish, you are now ready to apply your favorite wax.

Scottwax1 Scottwax1 Scottwax1

In the below outline, we list Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax; you can however use any wax you like for this step.

Applying NXT Tech Wax with the G-100
Speed Setting - 3.0 to 4.0
Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
Pressure - 5 to 10 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher. You want to lightly engage the foam pad with the surface, not just float over it. This means using a few more pounds of pressure than just the weight of the machine resting on the surface.
Work Area - You can work a much larger area when apply a wax if you have already previously cleaned and polished the finish with a cleaning and polishing step like those outlined above. For example you can apply wax to one half of the hood and then walk to the other side of the car and apply to the other half of the hood and continue to apply your wax like this as you work around the car. Apply wax to the entire car and then stop and wait for the wax to dry until it swipes clear. (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2166)
Time - Work the product long enough to make 2 to 3 passes over each square inch of the finish then move on to a new section.
Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Thin coats are just as effective as thick coats plus they remove easier and use less product.

5 to 6 pounds of pressure for applying a wax after a dedicated cleaning and polish step

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/25PoundsTechWax.jpg

9 to 11 pounds of pressure for applying a wax if you need a little cleaning power when you're applying the wax

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/210poundstechwax.jpg




Removing the dried wax by hand or machine

After allowing the coating of wax to dry until it swipes clear, you are now ready to remove the wax by hand using a premium quality microfiber polishing cloth or a 100% cotton terry cloth towel. If you like however, you can also use your dual action polisher to remove the wax by using a microfiber bonnet over a clean dry pad.

Removing Polish or Wax with an Ultimate Bonnet on the G-100
Speed Setting - 4.0 to 5.0
Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher.
Work Area - You can work panel by panel, for example, remove the wax from one half of the hood and then walk to the other side of the car and remove the wax from the other half of the hood. Repeat this to the entire car until all of the wax has been removed.

Removing a coat of NXT Tech Wax off the Panic Parrot using the G100

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2PanicRemovingWaxwithBonnet1.jpg



At this point you can call it quits or apply a second coat of wax.

:cool: :cool: :cool:

Note about the pressure applied to the head of the polisher...

I've placed my hand on a scale before and often times guesstimated how hard to push down on the buffer head, but today I covered our bathroom scale with a thick plastic from a bag I cut up, taped it securely around the scale, then experimented running the polisher over the scale using the correct pad and chemical to try as best as I could to duplicate the exact thing I would do if I we're working on a real car.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2BathroomScale.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/25pounds.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/210pounds.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/215pounds.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/220pounds.jpg

I've polished out hundreds of cars using both the rotary buffer and the dual action polisher and have a pretty good feel for how much pressure to apply depending on what you want to accomplish.

To tell you the truth, I was quite surprised by the scale readings myself. I posted a range because that's truly how the dual action polisher works, it works within a range of pressure not a set number. Another factor is the condition of the paint, paint with only light swirls will only need pressure in the 15 pound range while paint with really deep swirls and harder paint will require pressure in the upper range running anywhere from 17 to 20, maybe even bumping over 20.

It was not a perfect system, but I'm confident the numbers are in the real world correct range. If you have a scale, and you have experience polishing out swirls with a dual action polisher using a foam pad like our W-8006 foam polishing pad, give it a try and compare notes.

Also when applying a wax, I found a little more than the weight of the polisher, yet enough to keep the pad flat against the finish was around the 10 pound range. For more cleaning ability, a person could apply a tad more pressure, so the range depends upon what you're trying to do.

These are all just suggestions, or course you can experiment with your car's finish and determine what works best for you.

Remember, it's not just about breaking down abrasives; it's about removing below surface defects. You remove below surface defects by removing the upper level paint that surrounds them.

Gliding the dual action polisher over a clear coat finish will not remove paint. Pushing down on the polisher, moving it slowly and the combination of time, your pad choice, chemical and oscillating action, gently and carefully abrade and remove small amounts of paint which levels the finish and thus removes the defects.

TKDDAD
Jul 6th, 2005, 04:22 PM
Excellent information Mike...thanks for the clarification on the pressure measurement as that was confusing me earlier today...am pretty pumped to get my G100 and start practicing the techniques I've studied on this forum...I've got two "practice" cars lined up ready to be transformed...sometime in the next week or two hopefully...I"ll be using this information to make sure I do it right !..thanks again....:xyxthumbs

rusty bumper
Jul 6th, 2005, 05:55 PM
15 to 20 lbs. of pressure?

I'll have to borrow someone's analog scales to see how that feels. But is that much pressure necessary to break down the abrasives in DACP?

Mike Phillips
Jul 6th, 2005, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Rusty Bumper
15 to 20 lbs. of pressure?

I'll have to borrow someone's analog scales to see how that feels. But is that much pressure necessary to break down the abrasives in DACP?

Remember, it's not just about breaking down abrasives; it's about removing below surface defects. You remove below surface defects by removing the upper level paint that surrounds them.

Gliding the dual action polisher over a clear coat finish will not remove paint. Pushing down on the polisher, moving it slowly and the combination of time, your pad choice, chemical and oscillating action, gently and carefully abrade and remove small amounts of paint which levels the finish and thus removes the defects.

I've placed my hand on a scale before and often times guesstimated how hard to push down on the buffer head, but today I covered our bathroom scale with a thick plastic from a bag I cut up, taped it securely around the scale, then experimented running the polisher over the scale using the correct pad and chemical to try as best as I could to duplicate the exact thing I would do if I we're working on a real car.

I've polished out hundreds of cars using both the rotary buffer and the dual action polisher and have a pretty good feel for how much pressure to apply depending on what you want to accomplish. To tell you the truth, I was quite surprised by the scale readings myself. I posted a range because that's truly how the dual action polisher works, it works within a range of pressure not a set number. Another factor is the condition of the paint, paint with only light swirls will only need pressure in the 15 pound range while paint with really deep swirls and harder paint will require pressure in the upper range running anywhere from 17 to 20, maybe even bumping over 20.

It was not a perfect system, but I'm confident the numbers are in the real world correct range. If you have a scale, and you have experience polishing out swirls with a dual action polisher using a foam pad like our W-8006 foam polishing pad, give it a try and compare notes.

Also when applying a wax, I found a little more than the weight of the polisher, yet enough to keep the pad flat against the finish was around the 10 pound range. For more cleaning ability, a person could apply a tad more pressure, so the range depends upon what you're trying to do.

These are all just suggestions, or course you can experiment with your car's finish and determine what works best for you.

Rob66
Jul 6th, 2005, 08:42 PM
Hi Mike

Fantastic info, looking forward to using mine already have a couple of 'volunteer' cars lined up will post before and after picks.

Rob:xyxthumbs

imacarnut
Jul 6th, 2005, 08:51 PM
mike,
once again, thanks for the tips! your honesty and devotion towards car care is *tony the tiger voice* GGGRREEEAAATTT! you rule! :xyxthumbs

rusty bumper
Jul 6th, 2005, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Also when applying a wax, I found a little more than the weight of the polisher, yet enough to keep the pad flat against the finish was around the 10 pound range.
OK, I think I can comprehend the details just a little bit better now.......I was thinking that 20 lbs. of pressure might be too much for the backing plate & pad to endure for very long.

Edit: Many thanks for taking the time to break this down for us Mike!

You describe the details of detailing like a connoisseur of fine food. :bow

zey
Jul 7th, 2005, 04:31 AM
I just spent 3 hours on practicing polishing with both DA and rotary on the door. I started out with DA+#83+W-8006 combo @ speed 4000opm, hoping to remove some rotary buffer instilled swirls. I ended up with alot of micro-marrings. I had taken several attempts but I still failed. Is this normal with such combo? Then, I pull out the rotary buffer to clear up the micro-marring and get back the reflection, but with some swirls around the edges. I have no idea how to improve my techniques on both DA and rotary. Very frustrated of me now...

Mike Phillips
Jul 7th, 2005, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by zey
I just spent 3 hours on practicing polishing with both DA and rotary on the door. I started out with DA+#83+W-8006 combo @ speed 4000opm, hoping to remove some rotary buffer instilled swirls. I ended up with alot of micro-marrings.

On some paint types, this happens. Two questions,

Did the 83 remove the rotary swirls?

Did you try to remove the micro-marring left by the M83 by using a lighter cleaner/polish and a new, clean dedicated foam polishing pad?


I had taken several attempts but I still failed. Is this normal with such combo? Then, I pull out the rotary buffer to clear up the micro-marring and get back the reflection, but with some swirls around the edges. I have no idea how to improve my techniques on both DA and rotary. Very frustrated of me now...

While this may be frustrating, it does prove the point that a rotary buffer can create the best looking, smoothest, clearest, glossiest finish except for the holograms or swirls it leaves behind that are typically only visible in bright light like sunlight.

The cure is to then remove these swirls using a machine like a dual action polisher to get away from the swirls instilled by the direct drive rotating action of the rotary buffer.

It can be a Catch-22 situation as then the dual action polisher can remove the swirls but leave behind micro-marring.

Zey... do you have any M02 Fine Cut Cleaner, (New Formula), M80 Speed Glaze or M82 Swirl Free Polish, or even some M66 Quik Detailer or M09 Swirl Remover 2.0?

After the rotary, then the M83/dual action polisher combo, I would like to see you try to re-polish the panel with a lighter cleaner polish to see if you can find a system that leaves the desired result.

TKDDAD
Jul 7th, 2005, 05:56 AM
So is it fair to say that the same thing might happen with my Ebony Black Sonata ? ....to Mike's comment, could the paint from Hyundai be part of the issue here ?....any other Sonata / Hyundai owners out there that could share their experiences ?...:(

zey
Jul 7th, 2005, 06:15 AM
I'm always amazed by Mike's response in MOL. My frustration was clear-out alot with such excellent service. :xyxthumbs


Did the 83 remove the rotary swirls?

On areas which are far from the edges, I was able to keep my pad flat and buff out to 95% swirl-free. And I notice sometimes if I stop buffing slightly earlier (the finish looks quite clear from #83), I would get swirls.


Did you try to remove the micro-marring left by the M83 by using a lighter cleaner/polish and a new, clean dedicated foam polishing pad?

I tried to apply #80 with DA using a clean dedicated foam polishing pad. It helps to clear up the micro-marring abit, but under close inspection, I could still see it. Slight distortion in reflection. I believe if I wash the car 1-2 times, the micro-marring will still be there.


While this may be frustrating, it does prove the point that a rotary buffer can create the best looking, smoothest, clearest, glossiest finish except for the holograms or swirls it leaves behind that are typically only visible in bright light like sunlight.

Fully agree, especially with the result produced by a beginner like me. I notice the holograms/swirls clearly under bright sunlight today.

Mike, one thing I want to highlight here is, I experiment by using a foam applicator to apply #83 lightly onto the surface using back and forth motion. Guess what? I get light scratches in straight lines!

Mike Phillips
Jul 7th, 2005, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by TKDDAD
So is it fair to say that the same thing might happen with my Ebony Black Sonata ? ....to Mike's comment, could the paint from Hyundai be part of the issue here ?....any other Sonata / Hyundai owners out there that could share their experiences ?...:(

Every paint job and paint system will react differently, that's why it's so important to do a Test Spot in one small area with the products and process you have chosen before attempting to apply them to the entire car.

If you cannot make one small area look good with your choice of products and process, you will not be able to make the entire car look good.

Just common sense.

Also, always use the least aggressive product to get the job done. In the outline above, I mention in some cases applying and working in two applications of M80 Speed Glaze versus using the more aggressive M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.

For the majority of people and the majority of cars, the M80 Speed Glaze is going to be the ticket. In some cases the M83 is just too aggressive when applied with a dual action polisher and and will micro-mar the surface. In most of these cases, a lighter cleaner/polish will remove the micro-marring but what happens most of the time is the person panics and then posts their experience to a public forum.

Perform Test Spots
Use the Least Aggressive Product to get the job done
Sometimes you will be better off applying two applications, of a lighter cleaner/polish than trying to use a more aggressive product

Remember, the Professional Line is a line of product formulated for and intended for use by Professionals, when weekend warriors and serious enthusiasts decide to switch from our completely safe to use by anyone Consumer Line, please understand you, have jumped from one line to another line and the difference in products can be very dramatic and as such be aware that Professionals are people with a high skill level as they tend do work with these types of product day-in, day-out as a vocation.

Mike Phillips
Jul 7th, 2005, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by zey
I tried to apply #80 with DA using a clean dedicated foam polishing pad. It helps to clear up the micro-marring abit, but under close inspection, I could still see it. Slight distortion in reflection. I believe if I wash the car 1-2 times, the micro-marring will still be there.



Fully agree, especially with the result produced by a beginner like me. I notice the holograms/swirls clearly under bright sunlight today.

Mike, one thing I want to highlight here is, I experiment by using a foam applicator to apply #83 lightly onto the surface using back and forth motion. Guess what? I get light scratches in straight lines!

I can't help but wonder if your car's paint isn't very susesptible to scratching?

In some cases, the best you can do is get it close to perfection and then let your wax take your results over the top.


I would recommend reading the below two threads in the Hot Topics (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=80) because they discuss in detail working what can and what cannot be done with a rotary buffer as far as creating a swirl free finish.

Need HELP! - How to avoid holograms? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4929)

How to avoid swirls and holograms? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4966)

In the end, in order to guarantee a completely swirl free finish on a dark colored paint in bright lights, you're going to need to re-polish each panel either by hand or with a dual action polisher to insure any swirls induced by the direct drive circular contact between your pad and the paint is removed.

That, or use a coating or two of wax to insure any remaining holograms or swirls are eliminated.

Read the above two threads however, there is a lot of good information in them that would not be efficient to try to re-post into this thread.

TKDDAD
Jul 7th, 2005, 07:37 AM
Fully understandable...

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Every paint job and paint system will react differently, that's why it's so important to do a Test Spot in one small area with the products and process you have chosen before attempting to apply them to the entire car.

If you cannot make one small area look good with your choice of products and process, you will not be able to make the entire car look good.

Just common sense.

Also, always use the least aggressive product to get the job done. In the outline above, I mention in some cases applying and working in two applications of M80 Speed Glaze versus using the more aggressive M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.

For the majority of people and the majority of cars, the M80 Speed Glaze is going to be the ticket. In some cases the M83 is just too aggressive when applied with a dual action polisher and and will micro-mar the surface. In most of these cases, a lighter cleaner/polish will remove the micro-marring but what happens most of the time is the person panics and then posts their experience to a public forum.

Perform Test Spots
Use the Least Aggressive Product to get the job done
Sometimes you will be better off applying two applications, of a lighter cleaner/polish than trying to use a more aggressive product

Remember, the Professional Line is a line of product formulated for and intended for use by Professionals, when weekend warriors and serious enthusiasts decide to switch from our completely safe to use by anyone Consumer Line, please understand you, have jumped from one line to another line and the difference in products can be very dramatic and as such be aware that Professionals are people with a high skill level as they tend do work with these types of product day-in, day-out as a vocation.

integraoligist
Jul 7th, 2005, 02:55 PM
question... for the places that the DA can't reach when using #83 and 80... do you just use a microfiber applicator pad and scrub by hand? or what?

Thanks!

rusty bumper
Jul 7th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by integraoligist
question... for the places that the DA can't reach when using #83 and 80... do you just use a microfiber applicator pad and scrub by hand? or what?

Thanks!
In areas like that, all you can really do is a hand application by using the Hi-Tech, microfiber, or terry applicator.

integraoligist
Jul 7th, 2005, 06:48 PM
in a circular motion?

rusty bumper
Jul 7th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by integraoligist
in a circular motion?
If possible, but it doesn't really matter what direction you use.

Here's a good thread on the subject.

Circles or Straight Lines? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6442)

integraoligist
Jul 8th, 2005, 04:29 AM
he is referring to applying wax/sealent, which is non abrasive... thus it dosent matter which way to apply it...

but because 80 and 83 do have abrasives in them to get into the paint... i can only assume a straight back and forth motion would be best? however when using the a DA to apply, it goes in ALL directions. :confused:

rusty bumper
Jul 8th, 2005, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by integraoligist
he is referring to applying wax/sealent, which is non abrasive... thus it dosent matter which way to apply it...

but because 80 and 83 do have abrasives in them to get into the paint... i can only assume a straight back and forth motion would be best? however when using the a DA to apply, it goes in ALL directions. :confused:
I don't think it's going to hurt anything myself, but #80 would be my product of choice for these areas when using straight line motions.

ScratchX has abrasives in it, and it can be applied it straight lines from what I've read....

Work the microscopic diminishing abrasives against the finish applying a little passion behind the applicator pad

ScratchX can be applied using straight-lines or circular motion and for this particular demonstration we used a combination of both.

The above remarks were taken from this thread. (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7011)

#83 is a little tough to break down by hand, but #80 should be very suitable for hand use IMO.

bluemoon
Jul 10th, 2005, 08:01 AM
Thier is a ton of information in this thread! Thanks Mike. Knowing how to "properly" use a product it a huge part of the battle. I know I should did learn alot.:) :xyxthumbs

coredump
Jul 18th, 2005, 08:57 AM
If I am using a DA, would #80 or ScratchX be ideal in removing swirls/cowebs?

Mike Phillips
Jul 18th, 2005, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by coredump
If I am using a DA, would #80 or ScratchX be ideal in removing swirls/cobwebs?

Hi coredump,

ScratchX is formulated for hand application only. When it gets hot, sometimes it can become gummy on the surface and difficult to remove.

In a perfect world, we would recommend M80 Speed Glaze. If you cannot obtain M80 Speed Glaze which is the case in some other countries outside the U.S.A., then you can try the ScratchX at your own decision knowing what I've posted about it.

I've used it personally with the dual action polisher and had mixed results. Sometimes it worked great and was easy to remove, sometimes it worked great and was difficult to remove. I think the difficulty is always going to be related to the specific application circumstances such as paint type, temperature, humidity, skill level, etc.

If you do use it with a dual action polisher and it does become difficult to remove, then try misting some quick detailer onto it and then wiping it off.

M80 Speed Glaze on the other hand is pretty much bubba-proof.

(Note to self... add a blub about ScratchX to the how-to article)

coredump
Jul 18th, 2005, 09:15 AM
That does make sense. I helped a friend ScratchX (by hand) his car yesterday and it was 90F no humidity Southern California weather. Needless to say, it was a pain trying to get it off. I ended up using Quik Detailer to get it off.

My G100 hasn't arrived so I had to do the polishing by hand yesterday. :(

But thanks, that answers my question.

Detalnewb
Feb 28th, 2006, 05:41 PM
OMG - 15 to 20 pounds??!!??

WOW - Everything I had ever heard on other forums was to just have the weight of the PC/G100. Totally amazing. Interesting news ... now I have to retry with more pressure on my "practice car"

I'm still completely freaked out about trying to polish the cobwebbing on my truck :( Black paint + mistake = bad

Mike Phillips
Feb 28th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Detalnewb
OMG - 15 to 20 pounds??!!??

WOW - Everything I had ever heard on other forums was to just have the weight of the PC/G100. Totally amazing. Interesting news ... now I have to retry with more pressure on my "practice car"

I've demonstrated these techniques in front of thousands of people live as well as buffed out hundreds, if not thousands of cars in my life.

When I took the pictures of the polisher on the bathroom scale, I was drawing from real-life experience as to how hard to push down on the polisher for the most accurate information to help you get the results you're looking for.

Just to note, if you merely place the polisher on a bathroom scale and apply just a tad over the weight of the machine to insure balance and smooth operation, you'll already be around 8 lbs of pressure, this of course includes the weight of the tool, pad, backing plate and chemical.

I found it just as interesting as most people when I did the experiment.

rusty bumper
Feb 28th, 2006, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Detalnewb
OMG - 15 to 20 pounds??!!??

WOW - Everything I had ever heard on other forums was to just have the weight of the PC/G100. Totally amazing. Interesting news ... now I have to retry with more pressure on my "practice car"

I'm still completely freaked out about trying to polish the cobwebbing on my truck :( Black paint + mistake = bad
That does sound like a lot of weight. A bathroom scale would be in order to get the proper feel to it.

I would back off on the pressure as the product breaks down though.

philming
Oct 19th, 2009, 02:48 AM
Hi there ! Do the techniques showned in message #1 apply for use of Ultimate Compound or SwirlX as well? 15-20 pounds pressure, 30x30 cm work area, overlap and so on?
I've noticed using SwirlX by hand that it had a tendency to dry out VERY quicly. Is this to be taken in consideration when working it with a DA?

rusty bumper
Oct 19th, 2009, 09:20 AM
Hi there ! Do the techniques showned in message #1 apply for use of Ultimate Compound or SwirlX as well? 15-20 pounds pressure, 30x30 cm work area, overlap and so on?
I've noticed using SwirlX by hand that it had a tendency to dry out VERY quicly. Is this to be taken in consideration when working it with a DA?

I've used that amount of pressure with UC with good results, but I have no experience with SwirlX yet.

Michael Stoops
Oct 19th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Hi there ! Do the techniques showned in message #1 apply for use of Ultimate Compound or SwirlX as well? 15-20 pounds pressure, 30x30 cm work area, overlap and so on?
I've noticed using SwirlX by hand that it had a tendency to dry out VERY quicly. Is this to be taken in consideration when working it with a DA?

Yes, you would use these new consumer products in the same way as outlined here for M80 & M83, although both of the consumer products are more aggressive than M83! SwirlX on a D/A should give you a generous buffing cycle, even with this sort of pressure and speed.