Can you remove orange peel with just a rotary buffer or do you NEED to wet sand in order to remove it?
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Orange Peel
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Re: Orange Peel
I am not sure if you can use a rotary buffer to remove orange peel... but high speed compounding and polishing could enhance the gloss of the paint so much that the focus would be shifted away from the orange peel.
Though if you have the time to mess around with a car, then it can be a fun learning experience.
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Re: Orange Peel
When you compound with a Rotary your removing paint, By removing paint your flatting the surface, This will improve D.O.I but will take longer than sanding wet or dry.
Back in the 80's Gm had a problem with paint cracking, little crows feet on Cadillac,Oldsmobile and others. On several occasions I was able to work the surface hard enough to build up enough heat with a rotary,wool pad and 3M Super duty compound to reflow the paint and hide the cracks. Please don't try this at home.
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by SHYNEMAN123 View PostWhen you compound with a Rotary your removing paint, By removing paint your flatting the surface, This will improve D.O.I but will take longer than sanding wet or dry.
Back in the 80's Gm had a problem with paint cracking, little crows feet on Cadillac,Oldsmobile and others. On several occasions I was able to work the surface hard enough to build up enough heat with a rotary,wool pad and 3M Super duty compound to reflow the paint and hide the cracks. Please don't try this at home.it only takes a little patience and plenty of PASSION!!
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http://thedetailers.blogspot.com
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by SHYNEMAN123 View PostBack in the 80's Gm had a problem with paint cracking, little crows feet on Cadillac,Oldsmobile and others. On several occasions I was able to work the surface hard enough to build up enough heat with a rotary,wool pad and 3M Super duty compound to reflow the paint and hide the cracks. Please don't try this at home.
Before I get it painted (hopefully this winter) I might have to get some specific details on this just for the hell of it.
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Re: Orange Peel
While it is true that the only way to truly remove orange peel is to wet sand, you need to be extremely careful when doing so on a factory paint job. Quite frankly the practice is not recommended, especially for the novice.
Factory clear coat is only about 2 mils thick - that is 2/1000 of an inch - could be a bit more, could be a bit less. But you don't know for sure. And the clear coat contains the UV screeners that protect the color coat. And that is where the problem lies: as the clear coat dries most of the UV screeners rise to the top of the clear, so removing even a relatively small amount of clear will remove a large amount of the UV screeners. This will lead to premature clear coat failure if you remove too much, and removing too much is pretty easy to do.
A lot of people will tell you that it's fairly difficult to sand all the way through your clear even with 2000 grit sand paper - but what they often fail to realize is that you do not need to go all the way through to run into problems. If you look at the service manual of virtually any major auto manufacturer, they will tell you flat out that removing more than 0.5 mil will create a situation where a complete refinish is in order. You can remove 0.5 mil with repeated, aggressive rotary buffing alone.
Unless you have a good paint thickness gauge and you have a lot of skill wet sanding and rotary buffing, don't even think about wet sanding a factory paint job on a vehicle you care about. Why rotary buffing skill? Because in most cases that's what is needed to pull out the sanding marks. But even using a D/A with a cutting pad and something like M105 Ultra Cut Compound, if you can pull out the sanding marks, you're still going deeper into the paint.
Wet sanding has its place, and there's no doubt that it's a lot of fun - as is rotary buffing. But unless you seriously know what you're doing, leave it to a seasoned pro.
Keep in mind all of the above is specific to original factory paint jobs. A body shop repaint often has the luxury of not only having more clear laid down to start with, but the painter can measure the film build before and after the clear is shot, so he knows exactly how much extra clear he has to play with it. You just don't have that luxury with a factory paint job.Michael Stoops
Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.
Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by hacker-pschorr View PostWow, parts of my 81 Porsche 928 has the same problem.
Before I get it painted (hopefully this winter) I might have to get some specific details on this just for the hell of it.
I was amazed on my 1st one and wasn't sure what I did until a friend of mine who is a paint rep and I were talking and I told him what happened and he said that the paint got hot enough to reflow but not burn. Boy did my head get big.LOL
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by SHYNEMAN123 View PostI would be glad to.
I was amazed on my 1st one and wasn't sure what I did until a friend of mine who is a paint rep and I were talking and I told him what happened and he said that the paint got hot enough to reflow but not burn. Boy did my head get big.LOL
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by SHYNEMAN123 View PostMike,
You posted:While it is true that the only way to truly remove orange peel is to wet sand,
And also posted: You can remove 0.5 mil with repeated, aggressive rotary buffing alone.
I agree with the 2nd.
Originally posted by the_invisible View PostYeah, the older lacquer (I think) paint refinishes and flows as heat is generated. But newer paints are not like that unfortunately.
Someone with a good basic understanding of paint polishing, who understands what's really happening when you remove defects from paint, is going to have a higher success rate than someone who just dives into rotary use because he's heard it's the best tool for achieving an optimum shine, yet has no concept of what's actually happening when pad meets paint. Again, we see it all the time.
Honestly, we hate to sound like a broken record, but there has been a lot of pretty casual talk about wet sanding around here lately and we just don't want anyone getting in over their heads. We don't want to quash all discussions of wet sanding - heck, we have an area of MOL dedicated to the topic - we just want people new to the process to go with eyes wide open, and their brain really thinking about what their hands are doing. Of all the tools available to a detailer the brain is probably the most overlooked, and the most powerful.
Oh, and the_invisible, I love your collection of James May avatars!Michael Stoops
Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.
Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.
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Re: Orange Peel
All the points you said Michael are sensible. As for orange peel on daily drivers,why this trendy attitude to wetsanding? I've seen many good cars here,detailed with consumer products by hand and also the G110. They have orange peel,but it's normal. I think on a factory clearcoat it is weakning it qiute a bit,esp. on the high spots.
From what I've seen on panels that I've played around with,the orange peel is reduced,but not completely removed.
If I take a pic from a few feet away,there's not that much difference,unless the peel effect was ridiculously bad to start with.
I thought Invisibles avatar was his new car
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by Eddie6th View PostAs for orange peel on daily drivers,why this trendy attitude to wetsanding?
Originally posted by Eddie6th View PostI've seen many good cars here,detailed with consumer products by hand and also the G110. They have orange peel,but it's normal. I think on a factory clearcoat it is weakning it qiute a bit,esp. on the high spots.Michael Stoops
Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.
Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.
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