Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

[tripmachine]

Hey guys I am hearing a lot of good about meguiars 105 followed by 205..... Back in the day with my DA I was told #83 (most abrasive for DA) followed by #80 was best bet.... Back then ALL I owned was my Meguiars G100 DA... Now I own that one still... a Flex 3401 and a Flex pe 2 150 rotary... Can you explain if 105 then 205 is similar to 83 then 80?? Thank you!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

M83 and M80 are both older technology diminishing abrasives while M105/M205 are much newer technology SMAT (super micro abrasive technology) abrasives that don't diminish. Variations of these SMAT abrasives are also found in M100/M101/D300/D166/Ultimate Compound/Ultimate Polish/M86/D155 by the way. Anyway, these new SMAT liquids are better suited to today's modern clear coats. SMAT abrasives are engineered to be very uniform in size and shape to give a more uniform cut - and therefore a better overall finish - and they are crazy hard.

M83 is a cleaner polish, while M105 is a dedicated compound. M105 can give a heck of a lot more cut than M83 but it doesn't have to. If you use it in a non aggressive manner, like at lower tool speeds and light pressure on a soft foam pad, it won't have the punch that it could have when used more aggressively. M205 is actually closer in cut to M83, but it can finish out far better than M83. And due to the versatility of the SMAT abrasives in M205, it can cut like mad if you use it in a very aggressive manner, like microfiber discs with some speed and pressure.

So, while you would use the newer products in much the same way you'd use the older ones, the newer ones are much more versatile and both cut and finish better than the older products.

[syswizard]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

When using 105 by hand, what is the recommended follow-up product ? A glaze or is another finer polish recommended ?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

When using 105 by hand, what is the recommended follow-up product ? A glaze or is another finer polish recommended ?

As always, that's going to depend on how the paint responds (micromarring, haze, etc) and what you're looking to accomplish. Odds are, though, that you'll need a secondary polish like M205 to finish things off to a high standard.

[syswizard]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

What other polishes are nearly equivalent to M205 ?
I've got minor microscratches present after rotary buffing with M105 followed by hand-polish with M105.

[Old Bear]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

I believe you may find some similarities in Ultimate Polish with M205.
Both are polishes, yet both contain some similar SMAT abrasives (mush less than Ultimate Compound or M105).

[tripmachine]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

M83 and M80 are both older technology diminishing abrasives while M105/M205 are much newer technology SMAT (super micro abrasive technology) abrasives that don't diminish. Variations of these SMAT abrasives are also found in M100/M101/D300/D166/Ultimate Compound/Ultimate Polish/M86/D155 by the way. Anyway, these new SMAT liquids are better suited to today's modern clear coats. SMAT abrasives are engineered to be very uniform in size and shape to give a more uniform cut - and therefore a better overall finish - and they are crazy hard.

M83 is a cleaner polish, while M105 is a dedicated compound. M105 can give a heck of a lot more cut than M83 but it doesn't have to. If you use it in a non aggressive manner, like at lower tool speeds and light pressure on a soft foam pad, it won't have the punch that it could have when used more aggressively. M205 is actually closer in cut to M83, but it can finish out far better than M83. And due to the versatility of the SMAT abrasives in M205, it can cut like mad if you use it in a very aggressive manner, like microfiber discs with some speed and pressure.

So, while you would use the newer products in much the same way you'd use the older ones, the newer ones are much more versatile and both cut and finish better than the older products.

Wow thanks for all the information Michael!! I will reflect back here to keep this product info fresh in my head. Sweet! I got ALL of those polishes including 80 and 83.... but now reading all you have typed about the newer product line makes me want to exchange some 83 for some m205! Thank you again!

[tripmachine]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

Hey Michael I have one more question so would I want to hit a car first with 105 then 205 after? or is 205 good to cut AND polish followed by #21? I'm just trying to figure if I should go hit my car with a cutting pad with 105 followed by a polishing pad with 205 then a soft application of #21. (i have some dealer scratches I need to remove) Thank you! Also would you recommend a pe-2-150 rotary or a flex 3401? I bought both and really chose the rotary for cutting power but then again I have ZERO experience with the rotary

[Nick Winn]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

What other polishes are nearly equivalent to M205 ?
I've got minor microscratches present after rotary buffing with M105 followed by hand-polish with M105.

Hey Michael I have one more question so would I want to hit a car first with 105 then 205 after? or is 205 good to cut AND polish followed by #21? I'm just trying to figure if I should go hit my car with a cutting pad with 105 followed by a polishing pad with 205 then a soft application of #21. (i have some dealer scratches I need to remove) Thank you! Also would you recommend a pe-2-150 rotary or a flex 3401? I bought both and really chose the rotary for cutting power but then again I have ZERO experience with the rotary

I wanted to chime in since Mike Stoops is on vacation so his response may be delayed. To answer your first question about using M105 first followed by M205, whether or not you need this combination all depends on your test spot. We always recommend to use the least aggressive method needed. In general, yes, this combination is very popular. Wash, Clay if needed, M105 to remove your heavy to severe defects, M205 to refine the paint finish & bring up a high gloss, and after a quality wax or sealant like M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 to protect the paint. Although, below is one example of how you could test to see exactly what is needed for the paint when using these products with a DA Polisher:

Wash

Clay if needed

Test M205 applied via foam polishing pad. M205 is a cleaner polish and has the ability to remove light to moderate defects & provide a high gloss show car finish in one step. If this combination does not meet your satisfaction or remove the defects to your satisfaction, move up in aggressiveness to maybe the below:

In a new section, Test M105 applied via foam polishing pad. Instead of going straight to a foam cutting pad, there are many times that just changing one variable, in this case the liquid, will achieve desired results. We are more aggressive than the previous test because we switched to M105 Ultra Cut Compound. If this is not enough:

In a new section, test M105 applied via foam cutting pad. Since the above combination did not remove the defects to our satisfaction, we now have changed the pad as our variable. If this combination is not enough cut:

At this point many professionals or pro-enthusiasts will apply a compound like our M105 Ultra Cut Compound via our DA Microfiber Cutting Disc. With these two together, you have now reached some serious cutting ability potential.

Anytime you use a dedicated compound, best results are typically going to be obtained with using a premium finishing polish like our M205 Ultra Finishing Polish via a foam polishing pad or foam finishing pad.

I would not recommend trying to compound/cut with a rotary if you have no experience using a rotary. If you want to become familiar with how to use a rotary, many users will buy a junk hood from a car, and practice on that. Dual Action Polisher machines can obtain rotary like cut if needed when paired with the proper pad & liquid.

Hope this helps! Feel free to keep updating us and/or post more questions.

Nick

[tripmachine]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

Awesome Nick!! You replied just in time for me to use this information to my advantage.... Thank you for all of that great information! I plan on doing a 60 day challenge starting next week.... EVERYDAY for 60 days I will be doing some kind of detail whether I have one to do or not.... whether it's free or for a fee.... I'm excited to use the above information on my own Cherry Red vehicle.... I'll have to find a used hood to stash in my garage so I can practice with the Rotary..

[syswizard]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

Regarding Nick's comments...I agree....rotary polishing is tricky....AND messy.
I think everyone should be moving/going towards DA polishers.

[drumdan]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

Hey Michael I have one more question so would I want to hit a car first with 105 then 205 after? or is 205 good to cut AND polish followed by #21? I'm just trying to figure if I should go hit my car with a cutting pad with 105 followed by a polishing pad with 205 then a soft application of #21. (i have some dealer scratches I need to remove) Thank you! Also would you recommend a pe-2-150 rotary or a flex 3401? I bought both and really chose the rotary for cutting power but then again I have ZERO experience with the rotary

You might consider M86 Solo Cut and Polish Cream.

It is another SMAT abrasive that sort of falls between M105, and M205. Though M86 a system liquid, designed for a very specific task, with specific pads, and a rotary buffer, it works great on random orbital tools, and dual action forced rotation like the 3401 with both foam and microfiber pads.

As far as tools/liquids/pads go, tremendous strides have been made in pad and abrasive technology, where you can approximate rotary like results with a simple random orbital tool, like the Porter Cable 7424, and MT300 style machines.

Meguiar's designed the DA Microfiber Correction System to accomish this goal, specifically the D300 compound, and microfiber cutting disc. Many detailers with start with the D300 + microfiber cutting disc combo, and finish polish with the M205 + yellow foam polish pad combo, and seal with M21 on a black foam finishing disc.

So in that respect, I'd steer any beginner toward a traditional, free spinning random orbital over a rotary of forced rotation dual action polisher. Start with the random orbital, and add the others as desired. They're all great tools, and all have their place in detailing.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Is 105-->205 pretty much the same as 83 --> 80?

Awesome Nick!! You replied just in time for me to use this information to my advantage.... Thank you for all of that great information! I plan on doing a 60 day challenge starting next week.... EVERYDAY for 60 days I will be doing some kind of detail whether I have one to do or not.... whether it's free or for a fee.... I'm excited to use the above information on my own Cherry Red vehicle.... I'll have to find a used hood to stash in my garage so I can practice with the Rotary..

Your very welcome! Wow that us a lot of detailing! Don't forget, when providing detailing as a service, base what you use on what the customer's expectations are. Most persons are more than happy with clean, shiny, and protected as opposed to completely defect & swirl free.

Let us know how it goes!