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Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.
So much information in this single forum group...
Hot Topics
Like this one that's actually a "Sticky"
Machine Photos - DA Polishers - Rotary Buffers - Traditional Orbital Buffers
DA Polisher is the generic term for smaller, more powerful and efficient random orbital polishers. Instead of typing anymore on this topic, click the link above and look at the pictures as there's a collection of pictures of DA Polishers and Traditional Orbital Polishers and then click the below links because anytime there's a questions or topic that is brought up often it usually gets a place in Hot Topics
and these two threads will completely explain what you want to know.
Rotary vs DA Polisher vs Traditional Orbital Buffer
Please explain Pros/Cons between Rotary and Orbital Buffers
This is always an interesting question because usually the problem people have is removing swirls, (that means removing paint), in most cases most people cant get the swirls out, another way of saying this is they can't remove enough paint.
Yet the concern is their afraid of removing too much paint.
See the irony? They can't remove enough paint and in some cases any paint at all by hand and they're worried about removing too much paint.
Take our word for it, it's the least of your worries when working by hand or with a DA Polisher. Your focus should be on removing enough paint to level the surface and thus remove the swirls.
If you really want a swirl free finish on this car you've bought, then the best way to get it and maintain it will be to invest in our G110 and learn to use it. The human hand can never outperform the machine. We demonstrate this at everyone of our Saturday and Thursday Night classes and have been doing theses classes at Meguiar's, coordinated through the forum since 2002. Meguiar's has been teaching people this since the first machine buffer was introduced, I'll guess sometime in the 1920's as we've been around since before the buffer was invented and around before most people owned a car.
Our new G110 offers more power than the Porter Cable unit we used to sell and most the other detailing websites sell and this will make all the difference in the world 10 minutes into ANY detailing project. Not a sales pitch at all, the truth based upon real-world experience buffing out cars and teaching others how to buff out cars.
I cannot count how many guys have come to Meguiar's thinking the best results come from hand polishing and that machines are all dangerous and then leave thinking the best finishes are always achieved by machine and when used with the right pads, products and techniques, they are completely safe.
M01 Medium Cut Cleaner and M04 Heavy Cut Cleaner were introduced probably in the 1920's or 1930's, it's hard to get hard data on these old products because there's not a lot of information available. We started a special forum to share pictures and document Meguiar's history here,
Blast from the past
M01 and M04 are both for use with a rotary buffer ONLY. If you try to apply them by hand to a clear coat finish they will scour the paint. M105 uses COMPLETELY different and brand new technology. Read more about it here,
What's the difference between Meguiar's Super Micro Abrasive technology and Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive technology?
M09 Swirl Remover, since then reformulated and now called M09 Swirl Remover 2.0 is our lightest cleaner/polish and most effective for removing swirls when applied with a rotary buffer but it can be used with a DA Polisher if the swirls are not too deep and the paint is not too hard.
You might be able to remove these swirls with your M09 with a DA Polisher but you wouldn't know until you tried a test spot and then inspected your results.
M105 is pretty much "Bubba-Proof", you do have to use common sense just like you would with any paint care product and do thing like make sure the car is clean, your buffing pads or applicator pads are clean, etc. and of course use good technique.
Most people when trying to work scratches and swirls out of a clear coat finish try to tackle too large of an area at one time, they don't use uniform pressure and they don't uniformly work each square inch of paint.
Again, clear coats are a completely different animal compared to a single stage paint, they scratch easily and because the scratch is in a clear layer over the top of a colored paint the scratches in the clear are opaque or whitish and they show up easily to your eyes in the sun or bright light.
Clear coats paints can last a long time, but people confuse this to mean look good a long time and that's just not the case, you cans wash a clear coated car with an SOS pad and scour the heck out of the paint and it will still last a long time but it sure won't look good a long time and that's in part due to the resin technology which leads to the hardness factor. That's not to say all clear coat paints are hard as we've seen some cars that will scratch just by looking at them but here's how we would type this up on the forum so that no holes can be punched through it.
"Generally speaking, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints"
That is to say, in all likelihood, the paint on a brand new Mustang will be harder than the original paint that came on a 1965 Mustang.
What that means to you and I is that when we go out into our garage to work on our new car with modern paint in most cases it's going to be more difficult to remove the swirls and scratches versus if we were working on an old Mustang.
Make sense?
Keep in mind, Meguiar's doesn't make the paint, Paint Manufactures make it to Car Manufactures specifications, so the frustration people experience is the fault of the car manufactures and to date not enough people have voiced their frustration in a way that car manufactures are willing to do something about it.
Here's an example of this frustration... a guy that joined our forum just to vent and we never seen him again...
My Hatred of Clear Coats
Check out his post and my reply...
Meguiar's always teaches the philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, with that in mind, our least aggressive products for use with a DA Polisher that would hopefully remove the light swirls in your car's paint would be
ScratchX - This is a light paint cleaner can be used with a DA Polisher or by hand.
M09 Swirl Remover 2.0 - This is a light cleaner/polish that can be used with a DA Polisher or by hand.
Our new M105 is not officially recommend for use with a DA Polisher or an Orbital Polisher but many people including myself have had great results using it this way.
By hand, M105 is the hands-down winner for effectiveness and ease of use when it comes to removing swirls and scratches.
Hope this helps... have to go put my fingertips in ice...
Originally posted by clutchhappy
Hot Topics
Like this one that's actually a "Sticky"
Machine Photos - DA Polishers - Rotary Buffers - Traditional Orbital Buffers
DA Polisher is the generic term for smaller, more powerful and efficient random orbital polishers. Instead of typing anymore on this topic, click the link above and look at the pictures as there's a collection of pictures of DA Polishers and Traditional Orbital Polishers and then click the below links because anytime there's a questions or topic that is brought up often it usually gets a place in Hot Topics
and these two threads will completely explain what you want to know.
Rotary vs DA Polisher vs Traditional Orbital Buffer
Please explain Pros/Cons between Rotary and Orbital Buffers
Originally posted by clutchhappy
Yet the concern is their afraid of removing too much paint.
See the irony? They can't remove enough paint and in some cases any paint at all by hand and they're worried about removing too much paint.
Take our word for it, it's the least of your worries when working by hand or with a DA Polisher. Your focus should be on removing enough paint to level the surface and thus remove the swirls.
If you really want a swirl free finish on this car you've bought, then the best way to get it and maintain it will be to invest in our G110 and learn to use it. The human hand can never outperform the machine. We demonstrate this at everyone of our Saturday and Thursday Night classes and have been doing theses classes at Meguiar's, coordinated through the forum since 2002. Meguiar's has been teaching people this since the first machine buffer was introduced, I'll guess sometime in the 1920's as we've been around since before the buffer was invented and around before most people owned a car.
Our new G110 offers more power than the Porter Cable unit we used to sell and most the other detailing websites sell and this will make all the difference in the world 10 minutes into ANY detailing project. Not a sales pitch at all, the truth based upon real-world experience buffing out cars and teaching others how to buff out cars.
I cannot count how many guys have come to Meguiar's thinking the best results come from hand polishing and that machines are all dangerous and then leave thinking the best finishes are always achieved by machine and when used with the right pads, products and techniques, they are completely safe.
Originally posted by clutchhappy
Blast from the past
M01 and M04 are both for use with a rotary buffer ONLY. If you try to apply them by hand to a clear coat finish they will scour the paint. M105 uses COMPLETELY different and brand new technology. Read more about it here,
What's the difference between Meguiar's Super Micro Abrasive technology and Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive technology?
M09 Swirl Remover, since then reformulated and now called M09 Swirl Remover 2.0 is our lightest cleaner/polish and most effective for removing swirls when applied with a rotary buffer but it can be used with a DA Polisher if the swirls are not too deep and the paint is not too hard.
You might be able to remove these swirls with your M09 with a DA Polisher but you wouldn't know until you tried a test spot and then inspected your results.
M105 is pretty much "Bubba-Proof", you do have to use common sense just like you would with any paint care product and do thing like make sure the car is clean, your buffing pads or applicator pads are clean, etc. and of course use good technique.
Most people when trying to work scratches and swirls out of a clear coat finish try to tackle too large of an area at one time, they don't use uniform pressure and they don't uniformly work each square inch of paint.
Again, clear coats are a completely different animal compared to a single stage paint, they scratch easily and because the scratch is in a clear layer over the top of a colored paint the scratches in the clear are opaque or whitish and they show up easily to your eyes in the sun or bright light.
Clear coats paints can last a long time, but people confuse this to mean look good a long time and that's just not the case, you cans wash a clear coated car with an SOS pad and scour the heck out of the paint and it will still last a long time but it sure won't look good a long time and that's in part due to the resin technology which leads to the hardness factor. That's not to say all clear coat paints are hard as we've seen some cars that will scratch just by looking at them but here's how we would type this up on the forum so that no holes can be punched through it.
"Generally speaking, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints"
That is to say, in all likelihood, the paint on a brand new Mustang will be harder than the original paint that came on a 1965 Mustang.
What that means to you and I is that when we go out into our garage to work on our new car with modern paint in most cases it's going to be more difficult to remove the swirls and scratches versus if we were working on an old Mustang.
Make sense?
Keep in mind, Meguiar's doesn't make the paint, Paint Manufactures make it to Car Manufactures specifications, so the frustration people experience is the fault of the car manufactures and to date not enough people have voiced their frustration in a way that car manufactures are willing to do something about it.
Here's an example of this frustration... a guy that joined our forum just to vent and we never seen him again...
My Hatred of Clear Coats
Check out his post and my reply...
Originally posted by clutchhappy
ScratchX - This is a light paint cleaner can be used with a DA Polisher or by hand.
M09 Swirl Remover 2.0 - This is a light cleaner/polish that can be used with a DA Polisher or by hand.
Our new M105 is not officially recommend for use with a DA Polisher or an Orbital Polisher but many people including myself have had great results using it this way.
By hand, M105 is the hands-down winner for effectiveness and ease of use when it comes to removing swirls and scratches.
Hope this helps... have to go put my fingertips in ice...
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