Cutting Pads with the PC - Good idea?

[Mayur]

Cutting Pads with the PC - Is this a good idea?


I'm new to detailing and I just bought a porter cable 7424 with a bunch of lake country pads. Few questions now.

1. Do I gotta tape up the parts of the car where the wax shouldn't go (ie: door cracks, windows, mirrors, etc)?

2. Im using a few things, should I follow this order with these pads?
* Wash
* Clay
* Swirl Remover - Orange pad cutting pad
* Cleaner wax - White pad
* Sealant/Polish - Black pad
* Wax - Black pad

Thanks in advance
Mayur

[MaximusZTS]

Re: New to detailing

To answer your first question. No, you dont gotta tape them off. You will wish you had when it comes time to clean those trim items. So yes you should. It will save you time in the long run and keep your car looking better.

As for your second question I have never used LakeCounty pads so I dont know how they compare to Meg's pads. But your product choice and the order seem good.

Oh and Welcome to MOL.

[Murr1525]

Re: New to detailing

1. You dont have to tape... but you'll be sorry if you dont.

2. I'm not familiar with LC pads, but I do question you order of products? Are you using Meguiars products? Why are you going fomr swirl remover, to cleaner wax, then wax? It can be done with no problem, but is kind of repeating yourself. You could either save steps, or work in other products that might give better results.

EDIT:
Yeah, what he said...

[GTBrad]

Re: New to detailing

I had LC pads before and I really didn't like them as much as the w8006 and w9006 Meguiar's pads.

Also, I had the orange pad and as I learned from a Meguiar's Detail Day, the pad is much to abrasive to be used on my paint.

Below is my Mustang hood where I used an orange pad on the top right side, and the results from using less abrasive products and and less aggressive polishing pad to the lower/bottom section. The upper left hand section is how my paint started out.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New to detailing

Also, I had the orange pad and as I learned from a Meguiar's Detail Day, the pad is much to abrasive to be used on my paint.

Thanks Brad for sharing this, testimony from our forum members and our class attendees is much more powerful than when someone such as myself post this type of first hand experience.

FWIW

We have had a number of people come to this forum asking how to remove the haze and scouring left by cutting pads recommended by other companies and by members of other forums.


Here's another picture taken of Brad's Black Mustang showing where he used a foam cutting pad on the PC and how it hazed the paint. This was taken from page 2 of this Saturday Detailing Class.
Stangpede at Meguiar's this Saturday!

Once in a while people come to MOL asking questions about using foam cutting pads on the dual action polisher, (G100/PC). Here at Meguiar's our current policy is to not recommend, nor sell people cutting pads to use to apply products with the dual action polisher because while they may remove scratches, they tend to scour and haze the paint and most people don't have the skill or expertise to recover from this when it happens.

Below is a picture of the hood on GTBrad's black Mustang.

• - In the upper left hand corner you can see swirls in the paint that were there when Brad bought the car.
  - In the upper right hand side is how the hood looked after he tried using another company's cutting pad on the dual action polisher. Note how scoured the paint looks.
  - In the bottom half of the hood, we removed both the swirls and the scouring using Meguiar's products and only our W-8006 polishing pad and our W-9006 finishing pad.

The point is, using the correct technique, you don't have to resort to a foam cutting pad and risk scouring your car's paint to remove below surface defects and restore a show car shine!




Thanks for letting us work on your car Brad!

[Mayur]

Re: New to detailing

So orange pad is really abrasive? People who use LC pads say that the yellow pad works the best (which is even more abrasive than orange) and either way I got all my pads in a starter kit with my pc.

Also to clear up things. Im detailing my dads car which has many many yet minor clear coat scratches and what seems to be minor swirls. Ill admit Im only using Meguiars swirl remover and the rest is Mothers ultimate wax system. I want to first hand see results between Mothers and Meguiars so Ill deff be using Meguiars on another car or Ill be using it in the spring when I detail again.

Murr1525 I already have Mothers ultimate wax system. I wanted to throw in swirl remover hoping it will remove scracthes. These scratches are everywhere because my dad basically treats his es300 as a cargo van. Im hoping that the more steps I do, the more I can kill these scratches.

Anyone want to followup?

Thanks for all the help so far guys
Mayur

[Murr1525]

Re: New to detailing

Well, I would definatley repalce the #9 Swirl Remover with #80 Speed Glaze. This will be better at removing swirls than #9, but is still mild.

[Mayur]

Re: New to detailing

Well, I would definatley repalce the #9 Swirl Remover with #80 Speed Glaze. This will be better at removing swirls than #9, but is still mild.

Im not trying to tackle swirls at this moment because Im still a novice to all of this. Im really trying to tackle all the clear coat scratches on the car. I could use scratchx or something like that but Id go through many tubes of that.

Here are product descriptions

Swirl Remover 2.0 is a deep gloss cleaner/polish. It removes fine scratches and swirl marks, while providing a dark, dramatic shine. Formulated to reduce splatter and make application and wipe-down easier.

Speed Glaze provides paint shop safe protection. Removes light to moderate swirls, oxidation and paint defects. Restores a glistening “new paint” shine. Versatile – can be used with a rotary buffer (wool or foam pad), D/A polisher, orbital or by hand. Easy, low dusting wipe-off.

I appreciate your help Murr. Do you think Im making the right choice on removing minor clearcoat scratches?

[Murr1525]

Re: New to detailing

Actualy, the swirls are most likely going to be easier to remove than the scratches, since the swirls will most likely be shallower. Swirls arnd scratches are pretty much the same thing, just swirls are often shallower.

Many new folks are concerned about being too agressive, which is normal, and a good thing. But #80 and #9 are both very mild.. You can use these products monthly for years and years without removing too much clear-coat.

The difference is basicaly #9 is for fine/very fine marks, while #80 is for light marks.

You would be fine with either product, and if it makes you feel better ,start with the #9. It is no problem. Likewise, dont start in the middle of your hood... start on a back fender, just so you feel better.

[Mayur]

Re: New to detailing

Well to play it safe I just bought the entire DC system. I debated with myself and I came to conclude that Im not ready for the pro line, at least just not yet. I havent even held the PC yet, Im not ready for pro line. Pro line in the sping

[mini44]

Re: New to detailing

practice on a friends car. White pad and #80 , black pad and wax.
Mike calls #80 " buba-proof"

[Mayur]

Re: New to detailing

practice on a friends car. White pad and #80 , black pad and wax.
Mike calls #80 " buba-proof"

Yah Im gonna be practicing on my cousins car that he just bought (used). The paint is in pretty bad condition. It has traded paint with a few other cars and many many scracthes.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New to detailing

***Bump***

Meguiar's doesn't recommend using cutting pads with a dual action polishers. It's true that a cutting pad on a PC will remove defects, but because of the oscillating action of the tool, they tend to also scour and haze the paint. The same cutting pad on a rotary buffer will produce a clear finish on paint, but when you change the action of the tool, the results change also and in this example the change is a negative result.

We have proven time and time again that any defects that can be removed with a dual action polisher can be removed using our W-8006 polishing pad and a cutting pad isn't necessary if you're using good technique. Thus there is no reason to use a cutting pad on a dual action polisher.

If you follow the directions and advice from the manufacture of the cutting pad that sells you and recommends to you to use this type of aggressive pad with a dual action polisher, or you get this advice from someone on another detailing discussion forum, and you run into trouble...

We will be here to help you recover.

[tinkz]

Re: Cutting Pads with the PC - Good idea?

This morning i've tired my DA polisher with speed glaze and lake country polishing pad (white) for the first time on my gfs Honda integra Type r http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ht=speed+glaze. Ive removed a little bit of swirls doing two passes. Maybe i need more practise with the polisher to achieve a better result or maybe use a more agressive product

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Cutting Pads with the PC - Good idea?

Ive removed a little bit of swirls doing two passes.

Maybe i need more practice with the polisher to achieve a better result or maybe use a more aggressive product

The most aggressive product we recommend "at this time" is our M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.

Generally speaking, if M80 or M83 won't remove the defects using a polishing pad the problem is either poor technique or it's time to step up to a rotary buffer.

Getting more aggressive with a DA polisher than the above will remove the defects better and faster but it will also tend to leave the finish scoured looking. If you're working on a black or dark colored car you'll see this scouring if you're working on a white or light colored car you likely won't see this scouring and think you're leaving a nice finish when in fact you're not.

Getting good and great results using a DA Polisher is ALL about using good technique. From my personal experience in teaching hundreds and probably thousands of people how to use this tool, most people make one of the below mistakes. We've included the remedy for them in this article also which can be found in our "Hot Topics" forum.


Tips & Techniques for using the G100/PC Dual Action Polisher

After teaching hundreds of classes here at Meguiar's, there are some common mistakes most people make when trying to remove swirls and scratches with a dual action polisher. Most of them have to do with technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time
2. Move the polisher too fast over the surface
3. Too low of speed setting for removing swirls
4. Too little pressure on the head of the unit
5. Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating
6. Not keeping the pad flat while working your product
7. Too much product, too little product
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.
2. For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.
3. When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.
4. For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the clutch in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.
6. Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.
7. Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.
8. Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting. (Sorry, I'm behind a keyboard, not a video camera

The first 4 are the most common. Can't tell you how many times we hear a comment like this from someone in the garage after demonstrating the correct technique

"That's what I'm doing wrong"


The dual action polisher is a gentle tool, that's why people like it. People are afraid of machines because they're worried they're going to either instill swirls or burn through the paint. When they learn that this is pretty hard to do with this machine, so after enough research or after watching a demonstration they learn to trust it and try it.

Summary: People like the dual action polisher because it's oscillating action is safe and gentle to the surface.

Now follow me on this...
For the same reason people love the dual action polisher, (it's safe and gentle), a segment of people get frustrated with it because it won't remove all defects all the time. It won't tackle serious or deep defects quickly and easily. It won't always work on really hard paints. So for the same reason people love this tool, they also hate it, they just don't know why. Maybe after reading this post they will understand.


This is the reason this thread is so widely read and you can learn a lot from it if you'll only take the time to read through it.

PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! - The Limits of the Dual Action Polisher


Even the pictures of the paint on the white truck on the first page and the story behind it are powerful and REAL (This writer took them and did the testing with both the G100/PC and the RB).

When the G100/PC with a strong cleaner/polish like M83 and our W-8006 polishing pad doesn't remove the defects to your satisfaction or within an acceptable time limit the answer is not to get more aggressive with a more aggressive pad or chemical or both, the answer is to switch to a more powerful machine like the rotary buffer and or take the car to a Pro who knows how to use a rotary buffer, or learn to live with the defects.

Hope this helps...