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Had the opportunity to try a few machines

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  • Had the opportunity to try a few machines

    Had the opportunity to try a few machines


    Last week I had the opportunity to play with a few new to me machines -
    • Flex XC3401 VRG Orbital Polisher (the dual action machine)
    • Meguiar's G110 Dual Action Polisher
    • Dynabrade Rotary with the Random Orbital Head Kit
    While nobody will debate that you can effectively remove defects with all three of these machines (within limits, of course) I do have the following observations:

    G110 ($149.99)
    As a conventional DA polisher in the family of the venerable Porter Cable 7424 this baby shines - literally and figuratively. It is smoother in operation than the conventional PC and has a bit more power. There is noticeably less shake and vibration and it does the same great job of defect removal that a machine at this power level is capable of. For $150 with a backing plate and hard case I think it's a must have for any weekend warrior who cares about their vehicles. Definitely an improvement over the PC 7424.

    Flex XC3401 ($279.99)
    Basically a lightweight but more powerful alternative to a conventional DA polisher. No doubt this had more oomph than the 7424/G110 DA polishers and I was really excited at the prospect of giving this baby a go after all the great things I've read about it, but I have two issues with this machine. It rotates counterclockwise, which is opposite the rotation direction of both conventional DA polishers and rotary polishers like the DeWalt, Makita, etc. Maybe not a big deal for someone with very little machine experience but when you've spent a lot of time working with a clockwise rotating machine it's funny how your body just adapts and the thing becomes almost an extension of yourself. Working with the Flex was like working while looking into a mirror. Any time I'd get the slightest bit of drag on the machine it did the opposite of what I was expecting. Am I being nitpicky here? Maybe. Perhaps I've already gotten a bit too set in my ways. But what really annoyed me was the high pitched vibration of this machine. I used it for about 10 minutes and when I shut it off my hands continued to buzz and tingle as if they'd fallen asleep. Honestly, I can't imagine what I'd feel like after polishing an entire car with this machine. I'm sure it would do an excellent job of defect removal, and the machine seems really well built - it oozes quality. Certainly the forced rotation aspect has its benefits too - it won't bog down under heavy pressure like a conventional DA will. But that annoying feeling of pins and needles as if my hands had fallen asleep....... really not a good thing for me.

    Dynabrade Rotary with the Random Orbital Head Kit ($121.99 for the Random Orbital Head Kit)
    I can't really make an honest assessment of the Dynabrade Rotary in pure rotary trim since I only used it with the Random Orbital Head kit attached so I'll just speak to that attachment here. The attachment is just that, an accessory that converts any rotary with a 5/8" spindle to a dual action orbital polisher. You get the same forced rotation of the Flex along with the added power of the rotary machine it's attached to. This is also a very high quality piece of hardware, no doubt about it. But it offers something the Flex doesn't - it is smooooth. No buzzing, no tingling in the hands. Yes, the combination of adapter and rotary is heavier and normally weight is a negative, but for me at least it's a smaller negative than the numb feeling I got with the Flex. Furthermore (and I admit to being either very frugal or a cheap old bugger, depending on your point of view) for basically the same money as the Flex you can pick up a Makita rotary ($169.99 ebay) and add the Dynabrade Random Orbital Head kit to it, meaning you get both the forced rotation random orbital features of the Flex and a full blown, high quality rotary for when you really need/want one. Win-win, and that's always a good thing in my book.

    Conclusions:

    If you've ever considered getting a machine for polishing but were afraid to do so, stop worrying and get a G110 - you'll never regret it. Trying to correct defects by hand is overly time consuming, back breaking work. You deserve better, and so does your car/truck/suv/boat/motorcycle.

    If you've ever thought about stepping up to a rotary but were terrified by all the paint burning stories you've read, stop worrying. Get a decent rotary and take your time learning. Work on your little sister's old beater car first, or your neighbor's car (you know, the guy who borrowed your leaf blower and cordless drill two years ago but never returned them?). The rotary does amazing things, especially in skilled hands. It does things a DA simply can not do, and it does it all in less time. If you're really serious about finish care, and especially if you have the opportunity to pick up some cash on the side by detailing a car every now and then, get a rotary. If you're thinking of going pro, then of course a rotary is a must.

    If the rotary scares you and the Flex intrigues you because of the dual action nature of it..........get a rotary and the Dynabrade adapter. I may be the first person here to say negative things about the Flex but it's my honest opinion folks. Yes, the Flex seems a logical step between the DA and rotary but I think the alternative of the Dynabrade adapter is a much better choice, both from a comfort standpoint and a financial one. I've already got a DA and I've already got a rotary. If I really wanted something inbetween I'd get the Dynabrade adapter for $121.99 and use the $158 saved by not getting the Flex for more pads, polish, microfiber..........beer.
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

  • #2
    Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

    Great info !

    Mike Pennington
    Director of Global Training, Events and Consumer Relations
    Meguiar's, Inc.
    800-854-8073
    mpennington@meguiars.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

      Great reviews! Thanks for taking the time to do it.
      Scott

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

        Fantastic reviews!

        ...maybe I should have kept the Dynabrade attachment...
        Chris
        Dasher Detailing Services

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

          Nice review, thanks for sharing

          I would just like to point out that the Dynabrade while being smoother at a high speed on the rotary will jump all over if you don't crank up the RPM's and also it is VERY heavy! If your going to be working with is machine all day, the rotary with the Dynabrade attachment will become very tiring. I would also throw in the pad sizes for the Dynabrade aren't great. I use the Solo foam pads, but they have the cut out on the back which doesn't fit too well, and the 8" pads are a little big for me unless I am doing something with a very large surface area. Just my 2 cents...

          Tom



          Originally posted by Mike-in-Orange View Post
          Last week I had the opportunity to play with a few new to me machines -
          • Flex XC3401 VRG Orbital Polisher (the dual action machine)
          • Meguiar's G110 Dual Action Polisher
          • Dynabrade Rotary with the Random Orbital Head Kit


          While nobody will debate that you can effectively remove defects with all three of these machines (within limits, of course) I do have the following observations:

          G110 ($149.99)
          As a conventional DA polisher in the family of the venerable Porter Cable 7424 this baby shines - literally and figuratively. It is smoother in operation than the conventional PC and has a bit more power. There is noticeably less shake and vibration and it does the same great job of defect removal that a machine at this power level is capable of. For $150 with a backing plate and hard case I think it's a must have for any weekend warrior who cares about their vehicles. Definitely an improvement over the PC 7424.

          Flex XC3401 ($279.99)

          Basically a lightweight but more powerful alternative to a conventional DA polisher. No doubt this had more oomph than the 7424/G110 DA polishers and I was really excited at the prospect of giving this baby a go after all the great things I've read about it, but I have two issues with this machine. It rotates counterclockwise, which is opposite the rotation direction of both conventional DA polishers and rotary polishers like the DeWalt, Makita, etc. Maybe not a big deal for someone with very little machine experience but when you've spent a lot of time working with a clockwise rotating machine it's funny how your body just adapts and the thing becomes almost an extension of yourself. Working with the Flex was like working while looking into a mirror. Any time I'd get the slightest bit of drag on the machine it did the opposite of what I was expecting. Am I being nitpicky here? Maybe. Perhaps I've already gotten a bit too set in my ways. But what really annoyed me was the high pitched vibration of this machine. I used it for about 10 minutes and when I shut it off my hands continued to buzz and tingle as if they'd fallen asleep. Honestly, I can't imagine what I'd feel like after polishing an entire car with this machine. I'm sure it would do an excellent job of defect removal, and the machine seems really well built - it oozes quality. Certainly the forced rotation aspect has its benefits too - it won't bog down under heavy pressure like a conventional DA will. But that annoying feeling of pins and needles as if my hands had fallen asleep....... really not a good thing for me.

          Dynabrade Rotary with the Random Orbital Head Kit ($121.99 for the Random Orbital Head Kit)
          I can't really make an honest assessment of the Dynabrade Rotary in pure rotary trim since I only used it with the Random Orbital Head kit attached so I'll just speak to that attachment here. The attachment is just that, an accessory that converts any rotary with a 5/8" spindle to a dual action orbital polisher. You get the same forced rotation of the Flex along with the added power of the rotary machine it's attached to. This is also a very high quality piece of hardware, no doubt about it. But it offers something the Flex doesn't - it is smooooth. No buzzing, no tingling in the hands. Yes, the combination of adapter and rotary is heavier and normally weight is a negative, but for me at least it's a smaller negative than the numb feeling I got with the Flex. Furthermore (and I admit to being either very frugal or a cheap old bugger, depending on your point of view) for basically the same money as the Flex you can pick up a Makita rotary ($169.99 ebay) and add the Dynabrade Random Orbital Head kit to it, meaning you get both the forced rotation random orbital features of the Flex and a full blown, high quality rotary for when you really need/want one. Win-win, and that's always a good thing in my book.

          Conclusions:

          If you've ever considered getting a machine for polishing but were afraid to do so, stop worrying and get a G110 - you'll never regret it. Trying to correct defects by hand is overly time consuming, back breaking work. You deserve better, and so does your car/truck/suv/boat/motorcycle.

          If you've ever thought about stepping up to a rotary but were terrified by all the paint burning stories you've read, stop worrying. Get a decent rotary and take your time learning. Work on your little sister's old beater car first, or your neighbor's car (you know, the guy who borrowed your leaf blower and cordless drill two years ago but never returned them?). The rotary does amazing things, especially in skilled hands. It does things a DA simply can not do, and it does it all in less time. If you're really serious about finish care, and especially if you have the opportunity to pick up some cash on the side by detailing a car every now and then, get a rotary. If you're thinking of going pro, then of course a rotary is a must.

          If the rotary scares you and the Flex intrigues you because of the dual action nature of it..........get a rotary and the Dynabrade adapter. I may be the first person here to say negative things about the Flex but it's my honest opinion folks. Yes, the Flex seems a logical step between the DA and rotary but I think the alternative of the Dynabrade adapter is a much better choice, both from a comfort standpoint and a financial one. I've already got a DA and I've already got a rotary. If I really wanted something inbetween I'd get the Dynabrade adapter for $121.99 and use the $158 saved by not getting the Flex for more pads, polish, microfiber..........beer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

            Originally posted by Mike-in-Orange View Post
            Flex XC3401 ($279.99)

            ...

            But what really annoyed me was the high pitched vibration of this machine. I used it for about 10 minutes and when I shut it off my hands continued to buzz and tingle as if they'd fallen asleep. Honestly, I can't imagine what I'd feel like after polishing an entire car with this machine.

            ...

            But that annoying feeling of pins and needles as if my hands had fallen asleep....... really not a good thing for me.
            Mike, I know you are very experienced guy so I will not assume you made a subconcious mistake of fighting Flex with a "death grip" and that that is what might have caused your bad experience.

            Instead I will, to be fair, just point out that numerous owners of XC 3401 VRG do not share the same experience, they are actually reporting quite the opposite, that XC 3401 VRG is much gentler on their body than PC.

            My personal experience is same as theirs. I suffer from consenquences of right elbow injury. Sometimes it takes as little as 15 minutes for my elbow to become very aggravated when using PC. I have not experienced that yet when using XC 3401 VRG even though I have sometimes worked with it as much as 10 hour "shift".

            At the same time I have heard at least one person finding XC 3401 VRG's vibrations non-intrusive yet finding ones of R2611, ones that I and others that tried it find practically non-existant, intrusive.

            So I guess all that means we are not all built same and we all react differently so what might be quite fine for many might be aggravating for some of us.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

              With all due respect, all of these machines are of the highest quality, but I own both the Flex forced rotation machine and the Flex rotary and haven't touched my PC 7424 or the PC 7428 since.

              I like them because they are powerful and very lightweight. Personal preference I guess.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                Mike, thanks for the nice review!
                I haven't read something so honest, I've seen lots of thoughts regarding the flex vs. the G110/PC and they don't convince me

                Thanks again bro

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                  Mike, thanks for taking the time to do the review. Thanks for your honest opinions. I guess for me its time to step up and go to the G110 from the G100. Bought a Chicago Electric rotary. Just waiting for my friend to get back to work at his salvage yard. So I can get a practice panel. Thanks again for the write up.
                  quality creates its own demand

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                    Originally posted by Tom Weed View Post
                    With all due respect, all of these machines are of the highest quality, but I own both the Flex forced rotation machine and the Flex rotary and haven't touched my PC 7424 or the PC 7428 since.

                    I like them because they are powerful and very lightweight. Personal preference I guess.
                    Absolutely personal preference, and I think it's great that we have choices. In my opinion, for my own uses, I simply don't see a need for the Flex and if I'm 100% honest, I don't think I'd purchase the Dynabrade attachment either as I simply don't see a huge need for a tool between the rotary and the DA. Maybe the tingling sensation I got was specific to me, and I certainly will admit that upon initial use of the Flex it produced much less vibration of the frequency exhibited by either the 7424 or G110. Something about that high frequency vibration just stuck with me though, and I didn't care for it. I am also very, very glad that I had a chance to test this out before dropping $280 on one!! Imagine how I would have felt if that happened!!

                    I just find that for my purposes I can achieve what I need/want/demand using a good rotary and a good DA. Heck, take the Dynabrade adapter out of the mix and you can pick up a good rotary and DA for just a few dollars more than the Flex on its own. I'd still take that combo for the money.

                    Also, I'm not saying there's a right or wrong to this and I certainly didn't intend to slam anyone who is a fan of the Flex and enjoys using it. I just thought I'd offer up my impressions of some tools that I had a chance to use for the first time.
                    Michael Stoops
                    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

                    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                      Hey Mike,
                      I didn't take it as a slam or anything, as each has it's own place I guess and it all comes down to what works for each individual. I've not had the opportunity to try out the G110 yet, but after using the Dynabrade then the Flex forced rotation tool, I really like the time I save with them following up the rotary work with a lighter polish and the use of them and their ability to break the polish down. I know the big draw back is the steep price on the Flex, and yes, it's too much, but I'm glad I have it.

                      No offense taken whatsoever...

                      As we say, "it's all good"

                      Tom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                        Well, Mike and I see things similarly...

                        Mike, Jason Rose, and I were playing around with the aforementioned machines one evening last week. With all the positive posts on various forums, and the obvious benefits of its forced rotation, I expected to enjoy using the Flex... But I didn't.

                        The fact that I wasn't blown away by this machine left me feeling a bit foolish! I'm thinking that maybe I was expecting too much. Side note- The Dynabrade attachment was definitely more comfortable to use than the Flex, for me. Even though the combination of a heavy rotary/heavy attachment would seem to be uncomfortable to use, it wasn't. I think that a pound here or there doesn't make a whole lotta difference if the weight feels balanced, and it helps to minimize errant vibrations, that, over time, can wreak havoc on your hands.

                        If it was paired with a Metabo rotary, the weighty Dynabrade attachment may equal the overall weight of a larger machine (such as my favorite DeWalt rotary, sans attachment). I've used the Flex for only about two hours, so I don't consider myself an expert with this particular machine. But- I have been machine-polishing cars for about 21 years now, so I'm not new to the game.

                        The Bosch 1250DEVS would be neat to try, just to see how it compares to the Flex.

                        For some people, the Flex may be a 'great' machine. I say, use what you like, and if you simply LOVE using the Flex, more power to you. I don't doubt its capabilities. It removed defects very well, and it left a darn good finish, too. I just thought it took a LOT of effort to use in a controlled manner.

                        Yes Siree... Give me a G110, add a forced rotation of about 30 r.p.m., and I'm guessing I'll LOVE that machine.
                        Last edited by Kevin Brown; Mar 25, 2008, 12:21 AM. Reason: paragraph change
                        Kevin Brown
                        NXTti Instructor, Meguiar's/Ford SEMA Team, Meguiar's Distributor/Retailer

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                          Originally posted by Mike-in-Orange View Post
                          Also, I'm not saying there's a right or wrong to this and I certainly didn't intend to slam anyone who is a fan of the Flex and enjoys using it.
                          I don't think that anyone here perceived any part of your post as even remotely close to slam.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                            I have all 3 a pc/flex/rotary and imo the flex is the best machine I have for the simple fact i dont have to WORK at polishing like I have to with the PC (IE pressure) and rotary (attention span). I just slap a pad on the flex and go :-)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Had the opportunity to try a few machines

                              Originally posted by Kevin Brown View Post
                              Mike, Jason Rose, and I were playing around with the aforementioned machines one evening last week. With all the positive posts on various forums, and the obvious benefits of its forced rotation, I expected to enjoy using the Flex... But I didn't.

                              The fact that I wasn't blown away by this machine left me feeling a bit foolish! I'm thinking that maybe I was expecting too much.
                              Kevin, it might be all matter of perspective that is dependant on where person is. With your knowledge, skill, and experience you can probably do perfect waltz with a rotary with eyes closed. Many others are nowhere near and Flex for them might be equivalent of an energy pill that helped them leapfrog several levels.

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