Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

[techguru]

Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?


I know I am new here and before anyone says anything, I have searched and searched but most things I have come up with include a rotary as part of the steps.

I am working on a 2003 Torch Red Z06 vette and I want to remove some light swirl marks/scratches. My weapon of choice is a brand new G110 I picked up from Autogeek. My goal is to get things as clean as possible on this car without having to buy/learn how to use a rotary even if it takes a little more time. I really want the color to pop and have a wet look to it. What products or pad/product combos could you guys recommend that have proven results on this type of car? I am completely new to using a DA, but I have read a ton already and familiarized myself with a lot of general info, just nothing that answered my specific questions.

[techguru]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

After re-reading my message I figured I should put in a disclaimer. I realize there is no silver bullet for auto detailing, more than anything what I am looking for is some direction that I can use to build upon and such by taking advantage of others experiences and not try and reinvent the wheel.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

I am busy right now, but I will expand more later.

The 30 second response is that M105 will be your best bet for initial paint correction.

Then M205 with a yellow pad most likely, but if that isn't finishing well you can try the black pad as well.

After that, I think an M20 base followed by a coat of M21 2.0, followed by maintenance applications of UQW after washes will give you a great finish and lots of protection.

[3Fitty]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Depending on how serious the swirls are...

You *could* start with M205 if they are not serious, but M205 + a G110 is not for SERIOUS correction. So, without knowing the condition of your paint, or how hard/soft it is, M105 would be the way to go if you have a lot of swirls or rids.

Just make sure you're keeping your pad clean and not letting it get bogged down with product because your pad won't be spinning very well. You might also consider getting some smaller pads for tighter spots or spot correction. I use a mix of Meguiars 8006, 9006 pads (the older ones) and 4" LC pads which work nicely with my G110.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Looks like you will be doing a couple of test spots to start. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

All of the information posted above is accurate but you will need to know how to find a PBE store in order to purchase our Professional Line as Hard Parts stores don't carry things like M105 and M205, (body shop products).

PBE Stores = Paint, Body and Supplies Store - Cater to autobody shops
Hard Parts Stores = Autozone, Kragen, Pep Boys, CSK, O'Reilly etc.

No worries, there's a how-to article on how to find a PBE store in your home town here,

How to locate Meguiar's Professional and Detailer products in your hometown


Another option would be to get versions of these products in our Consumer Line and that would be,

Click on the images to go to their dedicated threads...


Swirl and Scratch Removers
Ultimate Compound
ScratchX 2.0
SwirlX


Most aggressive to least aggressive -->




Here's links to the two products mentioned above.

M205 Ultra Finishing Polish & **NEW** M105 Ultra Cut Compound now for DA Polishers!
M205 Ultra Finishing Polish
M105 Ultra-Cut Compound - New Formula DA Polisher Approved





As you get time and have the interest, you'll find a a thread about just about every interest you might have in one of these two forums, you can search the forums with the search tool if you know how, if not we can tell you. Or you can scan through the two forums and read the subjects as they tend to tell what the thread is about.

Hot Topics
How To Articles

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

For a short answer to your questions,

You'll probably need one of these for the initial cut

Ultimate Compound
M105 Ultra Compound (New DA version)


And then a follow-up finishing polish

SwirlX
M205 Ultra Finishing Polish


You'll want 2-6 yellow foam polishing pads for use with your compound and then 1-2 finishing pads for your finishing polish. When doing the compounding steps, more pads is better. You can try to use just one pad for the entire car but when they get wet with product they tend to rob the power out of the polisher and this shows up as reduced ability to rotate the pad.

Here's why this is important, paint is removed best with the pad is rotating over the paint, not just vibrating against it. As your pads become wet with product they will rotate less and vibrate more. As you work around the car and you notice your pad isn't rotating as well as it was when you first started out, (when it was dry), simply throw on a dry pad and Shazam! you'll notice your pad starts to rotate again.

I used to post over on CorvetteForum and when I first started posting over there all the gurus were always talking about how soft the paint is on new Corvettes. They had made the common mistake of confusing scratch-sensitive with soft paint. 6 to 7 years later now all forums have it right on the hardness/softness issue.

Paint Workability - The Hardness or Softness of your car's paint

"You don't how hard or soft your paint is until you go out into your garage and work on your car"



Fact is, the clear paints used on modern Corvettes tends to be very hard, not soft but even though it's hard it still will scratch very easily. Most people confuse this characteristic with ALL clear coats to mean the paints are soft when just the opposite is true.

The problem then is removing swirls and scratches because removing swirls and scratches means removing paint off the car in an effort to level the upper surface with the lowest depths of the swirls and scratches.

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...


If the paint is hard, not soft then abrading it in a way that removes the defects and leaves the paint looking good becomes difficult and time consuming and in it's own way an art form.

Our new Super Micro Abrasive Technology has changed all this by making it easier to remove small particles of paint during the swirls and scratch removal step while leaving the paint looking good.

What's the difference between Meguiar's Super Micro Abrasive technology and Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive technology?


It' will still take a long time but at least your hard work will pay off with a show car finish.

Note: After you remove all the swirls you must take ownership of the car washing process or the paint will just become all swirls out again. That circles us back around to the scratch-sensitive or easily scratched feature associated with modern clear coats and remember, we don't make the paint, we only do our best to make products that will work on the paint. You can attribute the paint used on all cars to the car manufactures as they tell paint manufactures what they want in a paint system. I'm not sure they ever mentioned they wanted a paint that looks good, lasts a long time and is easy and fast to work on.

Before you ever bring the pad on your new G100 polisher down on to the paint of your Corvette, read and re-read this,

How To use: G110 - G220 - G100 - PC/Porter Cable - UDM
If you're moving up to machine polishing, be sure to read the below thread before starting...
Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
(These are all similar tools)


And then do a TEST SPOT

Doing A Test-Spot

Before going over the entire car, see if you can make just one small section look good, that is apply the product you're planning on using over the entire car to just one small section about a foot squared or so. Work it in and then wipe it off, then apply the polish, work it in but not as much as the compound because now you're not trying to remove paint, just spread the product out, then immediately wipe it off, then apply the wax and let it fully dry and then wipe it off.

Now inspect our results. Make sure you can make one small section look GREAT before going over then entire car. If you can't make one small section look GREAT you won't be able to make the entire car look GREAT.

Make sense?

It should look like this,




And if you're having any problems, the post back here after the test section and we'll help you tweak your technique to insure you get it right.


Sorry for a long, short answer, (868 words is short for me), I realize most people are what are called scanners, but what you need is detailed information explaining what you want to do and why you're doing it.

Hope this helps...

[techguru]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Thank you Mike, I read every single word you typed and absorbed it all. I appreciate you taking the time to send over such a detailed response including techniques and tricks of the trade and such. It is not often you come across such helpful posts on forums, but you sir definitely hit the nail on this head.

I definitely feel more comfortable about doing this know with the information you posted and I have a feel for the products/supplies I need to acquire prior to starting the detail process. I will post up some before/after shots of this when I start on it.

One last question I had was if you had any suggestions on what to tape? Pictures would be helpful as I am not 100% sure what I need to tape on the vette. My gut says all black trip, wipers, emblems, ducts, screen mesh, and that is all I can think of. Any help in this area would be great as I gather from reading that most of the outcome of the job can be attributed to the prep work.

Thanks again Mike!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

One last question I had was if you had any suggestions on what to tape? Pictures would be helpful as I am not 100% sure what I need to tape on the vette. My gut says all black trip, wipers, emblems, ducts, screen mesh, and that is all I can think of. Any help in this area would be great as

A good rule of thumb is to tape off anything you don't' want to detail later when detail is defined as using a toothbrush to remove dried compound and polish residue.

It's been a few years since I buffed out a new Corvette, someone else reading this might have a link to some pictures of an actual new Corvette taped off.

Here's a 1991 BMW that's taped off to give you an idea on what taping off a car looks like, it's actually the car used on the label of SwirlX


How to tape-off a car

Here are some examples of what I cover before doing what I call a "Complete". When I used to detail cars full time, if I had to start with the compounding process, then I would call the job a "Complete", because I had to start with the hardest and most time consuming process, (removing serious defect with a rotary buffer and a compound), and work my way through multiple steps until I had achieved a show car finish, in other words, I had to completely go over the car finish with all the steps required for a show car finish.

In order to prevent splatter on wheels and tires, you can purchase wheel covers and any good PBE store or just use what you already have, newspaper and tape



After covering the wheels and tires, start taping-off everything you don't' want to detail later, (Here the word detail means, get the wax out of the cracks, or anything you don't want to get excess product, (splatter), into, such as under grills where the area under the grill is not readily accessible, or you don't want to run the buffer over, like high points, edges and body seams, or even known thin areas.



Here's a 1965 Corvette Stingray Roadster in this thread which is also a pretty good read...

Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC?


It's a lot of work to take a diamond in the rough and turn it into a glistening gemstone starting with a rotary buffer.



Swirls throughout the finish of this 1963 black Corvette Stingray



After wiping down and claying and before taping off.



Extensively taped-off. At this stage the finish had been rotary buffed twice and then wiped down in preparation for final polishing with the dual action polisher.


End results







And then it's alway nice to have 30 plus Corvette owners on hand to inspect the result in bright sunlight the next day...

I gather from reading that most of the outcome of the job can be attributed to the prep work.

True.

This is why we hammer on the topic of doing a test spot on this forum and have watched this idea move out to all the other forums.

You need to dial in your system and make 100% sure that your process, that is the products, pads, tools and techniques will create a flawless finish in one small area before going over the entire car. If you can't make one small area look good you won't be able to make the entire car look good.

If you can make one small area look good then theoretically you should be able to duplicate, or cookie-cutter the process for the small test section over the entire car and get the same results.

Just to note, no one ever gets so good at polishing paint that they don't need to do a test spot first. The below car wasn't much fun to work on as the paint scratches so easily and I found this out while doing the test spot.


From this thread,
How to remove oxidation from orange candy apple red paint?

What you want to do is to see if you can make a small section look good and if you can then repeat the process that made the small section look good to the entire car. It's called, "Doing a Test Spot"

Test Spot on a Mosler to remove scratches and restore clarity to the clear coat.





After our choice of products were applied and wiped off to the test spot the Mosler was pulled out into the sun to inspect. The products and procedures selected worked in the test spot and then they were duplicated over the entire car.




Once you dial-in a successful procedure to one small area, all you have to do is repeat the procedure over the entire car. If you can make one small area look good, it's not a leap of faith to figure out you can make the entire car look good.


LSP applied (NXT in this case after machine cleaning and polishing)




LSP removed

[RDVT4ME]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

the M105/M205 combo should get the job done for you with the DA. I suggest you get a Brinkman Dual Xenon light to really see what is going on with your paint. You can get one at Pep boys for under $30. Corvette paint can be a challange as it scratches easily and is pretty hard paint (meaning you need a strong abrasive to remove defects).

I know what you are dealing with as I have a 2002 torch red vette.

You have come to the right forum for help.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Also as far as taping. I use towels for large area's such as where the wipers are. Generally, if it's not painted, you need to cover it. You can wrap some microfiber or terry towels around the wiper arms and cover the cowl area with small towels.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Last time I was in Pep Boys the had the exact Brinkman Flashlight you want to get for around $30.00

Here's what you're looking for...




Be wary... the Xenon Flashlight aka The Swirl Finder... is a Cruel Master

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Here's a tip...

For your first detailing session, only try to tackle one panel for the day. A panel would be the hood, a door, a fender etc.

Wash and dry your Corvette or wipe it clean using a quick detailer and some microfiber polishing cloths.

Clay the paint if needed.

Do your test spot, read the tips and techniques for using the DA Polisher, shake your products up before using them and then try to polish out a section about a foot squared.

Technically you would use your light polish first and see if it will get the job done.

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

By using the least aggressive product you will leave the most paint on the car and in some case reduce the number of steps and time necessary to do the job.

If your first product of choice doesn't give you the results you're looking for or give you the results you looking for fast or effective enough, then substitute a more aggressive product and test again.

Check your results in two kinds of lights, bright sunlight and artificial light.

If you find you have to compound the paint then after the compound step, do your polishing step and then check your results.

I will usually do all the steps right up to the waxing step as this is the actual end-result and that's what my customer is going to see.

After you dial-in your process then tackle on panel for the day. If you just buff out the hood of your Corvette it's going to take you about 2 hours to compound the hood if you break the hood up into small sections. If it were me I would probably break the hood up into 9 section and each section will get it's own application of compound/polish on the face of the pad and worked for a minute or two.

You can't buff out half a hood at one time, you have to break each panel up into small sections for the cleaning step. You also have to break each panel up for the polishing step.

When it comes to applying the wax then you can apply wax as far as you can reach, in other words you if you can reach over one half of the hood then you can spread wax out over half a hood and then do the other half.

There's a HUGE difference between spreading out a wax and removing swirls. Removing swirls means removing paint and you have to do this by only working on small sections at a time due to paint hardness and the gentleness and safety of a tool that has a clutch. (Your G100).

Not including washing, drying or wiping your car clean, or claying the paint if needed, or taping off anything you want to cover or tape off.

Compounding approximately 2 hours. Maybe longer depending upon how bad the swirls are and how good you are at this kind of work but probably not less time to do a good and thorough job.

Polishing approximately 1 to 2 hours. Now you're going to go over the hood in the same way you used the compound by doing small sections and working each section for a few minutes. This should go faster now you're not trying to remove the major swirls and scratches but instead remove any haze or dullness after the heavy compounding step. Another way of thinking of this is now you're going to remove less paint by your machine polishing action and the product and pad you're using are going to create a more clear, glossier surface, perfect for applying wax over.

Waxing approximately 15 to 20 minutes. It won't take long to apply your favorite wax or paint sealant over the hood of your car by machine. Turn your polisher to the 3.0 Speed Setting and make 2-3 passes over each square inch and then put the polisher down and take a break while you let the wax dry.

Let the wax dry
About 15 to 20 minutes depending upon temperature and humidity. Use the Swipe Test to check and see if the wax is dry and ready to remove.

The Swipe Test

This is what a swipe out of a waxes section looks like. If you look closely, you can see the wax smeared a little where it was swiped. This means the wax is not dry and it's not ready to remove yet.




Wait till the paint is clear and glossy with no smears after you swipe it before wiping the wax off.

Swipe Test - 1948 Bentley Trunk Lid



These times are just approximate but just to do a great job from start to finish just on the hood is going to take you half a day, so start early in the morning. If you have to wash your car then wash it the day before so the car and the ground where the car is parked will be dry instead of a wet mess.

Turn your cell phone off and turn your radio on. Chill down some cold refreshments.

Enjoy!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Here's one more thread for you to read as it discusses the actual what to do steps and has these pictures,

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line


Move the polisher in different directions
You also want to go in at least two different directions, for example, from where you're standing, side to side, then front to back. You can also move the polisher in a kitty/corner fashion for complete, thorough and uniform cleaning action.




UMR = Uniform Material Removal

[techguru]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Once again thanks for the wealth of info Mike. I had actually already read the article about taping the BMW you posted. That was where I got the basic idea for what needed taping and such in general.

RDVT4ME: Do you have a hard top? If so do you generally tape the black trim above the windows and the gaps between trunk, headlights, hood and such? What about the brake lights and the front marker lights? I would really appreciate your input as this is specific to the application I am working on.

[RaskyR1]

Re: Proven combos for C5 Vette and DA?

Only on MOL will you get such detailed replies and answers to your questions!