I feel the need to start this thread....

[Andy M.]

Lets talk about wetsanding. How much experience do you really have. I know the guys here who are very good at it.

Tim Lingor, Mike Phillips, Mike Pennington, Joe, aka Superior Shine, and Todd aka TH0001, just to name a few.

I am starting to see all kinds of recommendations about wetsanding. This is a learned technique and you do not just go at it like you are "the ultimate detailer"

If you are new to this I personally do not recommend going hog wild, trying to figure out what grit to use, and then trying to remove your sanding marks. Chances are, if you do not know what your doing, you will create more problems with whatever your working on.

I am sure "the pros" will chime in here and agree with me.

Simple fact is, get a junkyard hood, and LEARN! Do not just go into this blind with a he said she said attitude.

Just trying to help out a little.

Andy M.
MOL Moderator

[Tuck91]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

I have a zero experience with wetsanding or removing the sanding marks.

Can you remove sanding marks with the G110?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Excellent point, Andy. Wet sanding is a very advanced procedure that involves much, much more than simply the sanding part. Selecting the proper tools for the project - paper grit, backing pad, D/A tool, etc - knowledge of your paint thickness (specifically the amount of clear present) proper lubrication and pressure when working the paper against the paint, visually gaging your progress - just knowing what to look for in the first place! - all of these are skills that take patience and practice to develop, let alone refine.

Even with all that in place, you still need the knowledge and skill to use a rotary buffer to pull out those sanding marks. That tool has intimidated plenty of folks on its own, but pulling out sanding marks isn't quite the same as removing a few swirls. You're generally working with the most aggressive combination of pad and liquid so the possibility of inflicting real damage is fairly high for a novice. Sure, there are plenty of "training videos" out there, but 5 minutes watching YouTube does not make one an expert.

Having said all that, if someone comes onto MOL and is having some issues after having started a wet sanding project, we'll do what we can to help out and offer up the best collective advice we're able to. I've seen wet sanding recommended far too many times on various car forums, and recommended in an alarmingly casual manner at that. Wet sanding can be extremely useful at times but it's probably also the single most dangerous thing a novice can do to their vehicle.

If you're really interested in learning more about the whole process - wet sanding and rotary buffing together - do your best to sign up for one of our Advanced Classes. You'll learn the process from theory to hands on sanding/buffing. On someone else's car! After going through that class you'll have the confidence to start practicing the process on your own, but you'll gain enough respect for the process to start practicing on something you don't really care about.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Can you remove sanding marks with the G110?

Almost always, no. You need the power of a rotary, almost always in conjunction with a wool pad and a compound with a lot of cutting ability. In our Advanced Classes we use the W5000 Double Sided Wool Pad with M105 Ultra Cut Compound on a rotary buffer spinning at 1500~1800 rpm. That's some serious power.

[dvtldav]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Andy, don't forget Jason Rose. I went to the midwest get together that Porscheguy had and Jason showed us some of the finer techniques of wetsanding. And yes Nick you can remove sanding marks with a G110 if they are not to deep. We wetsanded with 2000 grit and we got those marks out with a G110, although not as easily as we did with the rotary. I am sure Chris, Tom Weed, HotrodPaul, Fisher or some of the others that were at the get together can enlighten you on this more than I can.

Dave

[Mike Pennington]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Touchy subject...

While we appreciate the passion / enthusiasm everyone has to "sand", I'll have to agree w/ Andy and Mike S. 100%.

An easy way to describe the sanding & polishing process is...

"easy" to do, "difficult" to master.

You can quickly damage a surface to the point of re-paint very fast. To be honest, we cringe when someone, who has never attempted the process, asks questions about sanding & polishing their car

With all the new machines available these, days, it sounds like it is easier, but the process is still the same...You are removing topcoat, which leaves behind sanding marks, which must be removed in order to get gloss back.

Starting on a hood or panels is a great idea, but practice, practice, practice and when you think you got it, practice some more

As far as removing sanding marks with a G110??? It depends... What grit, what pad, how much time do you have to work it, type of paint, factory or refinished paint, your understanding of what you are doing, etc...All these are factors that go into the process. So generally, we do not recommend it.

Keep in mind, the G100 & G110 were not designed to pull sanding marks initially. People have had some success at it, but that doesn't mean every should / could begin to sand & polish paint finishes...

Now as this thread grows, lets all please keep in mind the purpose of this thread. It is not about what machine does what or who can do what ?

[Tim Lingor]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Thank you very much to Andy for posting this and to both Mikes for chiming in on this thread!!!

I have been pulling my hair out recently after reading some of these wet sanding threads! I have said it before and I will say it again, wet sanding and the subsequent buff out is NOT as simple as some people make it sound! Watching someone wet sand, watching a video, reading about it, or someone who simply wet sanded a touch up spot, does NOT make one an expert in giving advice on wet sanding!

Anyone who recommends wet sanding without knowing the skill level of the person first is doing everyone and especially that person a major disservice! I have detailed for a LONG time and wet sanding can quickly lead to disaster if you do not know what you are doing!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE use just prudence when making recommendations to people as we do not want someone to go out and damage their cars because of a someones bad advice!! Sorry for the rant but we are here to help people obtain the best finish they can on their paint, not cause destructive problems!!!!


Well done gentlemen (Andy, Mike P and Mike S) and thank you for creating and posting to this thread!!!!

Tim

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

I took the Meguiars advanced class back in March, received excellent supervision and hands-on real world experience with wet sanding and following that up with a DeWalt rotary/wool pad/M105 buffing to take out the sanding marks. But I would probably have to take that class a few more times before I would be comfortable attempting the wet sanding process on my own. While I did buy a used rotary a couple of months back, I wouldn't use it on anything other than my 16 year-old Civic which needs a repaint anyway.

[Zuke]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Thanks for this Andy, Ever since i've joined i have been OVER EAGER to jump into detailing and making everything look as great as some of the names you have named. But I think newbs(myself included) should probaly take a deep breath, and really work on perfecting our technique and overall knowdlege, before going to the most aggressive route.

[Eddie6th]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Thanks for pointing these facts out.There was a thread recently,where the chap had watched the training video and thought it would be easy.

I've had a go a few times on scrap,and it takes a lot of concentration and practice.

I actually enjoy this side of things.Sanding and polishing.The difference is I havn't done enough and I just do projects on things that can be replaced.I certainly wouldn't be doing it on any car without plenty of experience.

What I'm going to do next is get a good rotary and get discarded panels from the local body shop.

thanks for the info!

[Andy M.]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Just to add. I was not pointing any fingers at anyone. Jason Rose, Nick Chapman, Kevin Brown should have been included in my original post. They are EXPERIENCED seaoned detailers.

I just do not want anyone signing up here on our forum, when I say our forum I mean us the membership, and going to the local PBE store going home and "sanding" on the car that they just bought because well "he said, she said it was easy and I saw it on MOL"

I started using a clay bar and that is how I got hooked on detailing. I joined this forum and Tim aka., 2hotford (remember him?) was the first to welcome me here. I am sorry if I have personally crossed any lines here as I do have a responsibility to all of you. I just don't want people ruining paint and then in turn saying that MOL or Meguiars gave me bad advice.

My theory is.......

Start slow! Get a junkyard hood and then practice, practice practice. Always use the least aggressive method first. One cannot just go to the local home improvement store and buy a rotary, and go home and give their cars paint the shine that they want. Chances are they will do more harm than good, and then will end up paying someone dearly for the mistakes they have made which in turn will give US the MOL community a bad name. I'm just lookin' out.

Andy

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: I feel the need to start this thread....

Andy, don't forget Jason Rose. I went to the midwest get together that Porscheguy had and Jason showed us some of the finer techniques of wetsanding. And yes Nick you can remove sanding marks with a G110 if they are not to deep. We wetsanded with 2000 grit and we got those marks out with a G110, although not as easily as we did with the rotary. I am sure Chris, Tom Weed, HotrodPaul, Fisher or some of the others that were at the get together can enlighten you on this more than I can.

Dave

Yup! Those 2500 grits marks came out in one pass and the 2000 grits marks were about 90% gone (second pass would have taken care of them).

As Mike Pennington mentioned before, removing sanding marks with a DA is not easy to do.

The Surbuf pads are very specialized and take a while to grasp. It is not like a foam pad, so you really have to practice and adjust your procedure.

Before I spin this thread...

Can you remove sanding marks with a DA? Depends on so many different factors.
Is it easy? NO!!!
Should you practice before trying it out on something of value? Absolutely.

Old hoods are easy to find and are pretty cheap. If you burn through, nobody is going to care. If you burn through on a customer's car, your wallet will be a little lighter. The cost of repainting the section plus the decrease in value because of the repaint is much more than that $20 hood you purchased off of eBay or Craigslist.

Sometimes, it is too easy to read about something difficult and decide to jump right in. This can cause grief in the future. Take the time needed and do it right.