Problem with Swirls

[LiveWire]

I have a year old rav4, eversince I got the car i've always used megs on it and nothing else... my biggest problem right now is that I have swirls... although not very apparrent. When part of the car, like the hood, is under the sun and when you inspect the paint closely, you'd see the swirls. at some parts, there are watermarks. But from afar and under a shade, the car looks fantastic.

i've tried the DCS paint cleaner, together with #7, and finally(just recently NXT wax) but the swirls are still there. I'm contemplating on using ColorX but the paint is not that neglected. I was thinking of using Swirl Remover #9. Would this solve my cobweb problem?

or maybe i'm just doing a wrong combo of the 5 step... Currently I have the soft gel wash, DCS system, #7, #26, ColorX and NXT wax... What I do is, Wash then #7 and NXT... I use megs yellow pads and Microfibre towel to wipe off and buff... no machine, all by hand... thanks!

[tguil]

LiveWire,

Buy a pc. Then go to #83, #82 and NXT.

Seriously that is the best way. The pc simply does stuff that you can't do by hand and the professional line of products can't be beat.

I've been messin' with detailing longer than most folks on this board have been alive. (Started in 1959) Nothing will match the above combination in getting excellent results in a short amount of time.

Tom

[TwoTooBlack]

Originally posted by tguil

Buy a pc. Then go to #83, #82 and NXT.

It took me a long time to come to this conclusion, but I simply could not get the results I wanted by hand using the consumer products. The PC is simple and safe to use, even the first time, and you will be astounded by the results. It's an investment (be sure to shop around), but it pays for itself in a detail or two.

[scrub]

Agreed with TwoTooBlack about the consumer products. They offer very little in abbrassive cut properties.

Then there's #7. Great product but mostly a filler with almost (if any) no abrassives. You need some aggressive products and a machine to apply.

I've found the #9 to do more fill than remove defects.

#83, #82 seems the way to go with the PC.

You might also do a search for the Scottwax method of hand application. I've only heard rumors but the results are amazing...

[LiveWire]

thanks for the advice... i've really been thinking of getting a machine, but the hardware stores we have here(like ACE and Handyman) only have the black n decker stuff... i don't think there are any PC(porter cable right?) here... Porter cable is a brand name right? but there are some stores which sell other brands like Makita and other asian brands... but they are a rare find since there is little demand for these types of machines...

And also, the only store outlet(True Value) who 'officially carries megs does not carry those megs machine pads and stuff(sorry don't know anything about rotaries)... so if i buy a machine, I'm stuck with the default pads it comes with for waxing ang buffing and i think they are'nt that good compared to megs but i'm not sure... haven't had any experience with machines. i'm a bit scared that they might cause more swirls....

anyway, here's the BnD polisher that i'm talking about... you think its a good way to start for a newbie?




- Random orbit action for a fast, high quality finish
- Two handle design makes this waxer/polisher comfortable and easy to use
- 10 ft cord for great mobility
- Includes foam applicator for applying wax/polish
- Includes polishing bonnets for a high quality finish
- Orbits/Min 4,400 opm

[gman39120]

Originally posted by LiveWire
thanks for the advice... i've really been thinking of getting a machine, but the hardware stores we have here(like ACE and Handyman) only have the black n decker stuff... i don't think there are any PC(porter cable right?) here... Porter cable is a brand name right? but there are some stores which sell other brands like Makita and other asian brands... but they are a rare find since there is little demand for these types of machines...

And also, the only store outlet(True Value) who 'officially carries megs does not carry those megs machine pads and stuff(sorry don't know anything about rotaries)... so if i buy a machine, I'm stuck with the default pads it comes with for waxing ang buffing and i think they are'nt that good compared to megs but i'm not sure... haven't had any experience with machines. i'm a bit scared that they might cause more swirls....

anyway, here's the BnD polisher that i'm talking about... you think its a good way to start for a newbie?




- Random orbit action for a fast, high quality finish
- Two handle design makes this waxer/polisher comfortable and easy to use
- 10 ft cord for great mobility
- Includes foam applicator for applying wax/polish
- Includes polishing bonnets for a high quality finish
- Orbits/Min 4,400 opm

To be perfectly honest with you, the BnD machine would be a waste of money. I have tried numerous orbital polishers of this sort back in my younger days. To acheive the awsome results that you would be happy with, you need to go with the Porter Cable 7424 or similiar unit from PC. Yes, Porter cable is a company name and a brand name. It is available online through numerous vendors and if you search the detailing sites, you will find it is the DA Polisher of choice. Meguiars sells the same unit for about $100 more, but you get a lifetime warranty with it. You may can find one on ebay. If it's not in the budget right now, just save for it. I promise you that you will be a happier man because of it.

[LiveWire]

thanks! maybe i'll wait awhile until I get to the US or a friend of mine goes there...

Suppose I have a machine already, what will be my 5 step process?

1.) Wash with soft gel wash
2.) prep using #2 with foam pad then buff by hand
3.) use #83 or #82 with foam pad then buff by hand
4.) Use #7 by hand
5.) NXT by hand

is this ok or am I missing something?

[gman39120]

Originally posted by LiveWire
thanks! maybe i'll wait awhile until I get to the US or a friend of mine goes there...

Suppose I have a machine already, what will be my 5 step process?

1.) Wash with soft gel wash
2.) prep using #2 with foam pad then buff by hand
3.) use #83 or #82 with foam pad then buff by hand
4.) Use #7 by hand
5.) NXT by hand

is this ok or am I missing something?

If you are going to be doing this by hand, I would suggest you wash with any quality car wash and clay (if it is available in your area). This will help remove any bonded contaminants prior to polishing. I would then begin prepping the surface using Scratch-X. Products like #2 contain diminishing abrasives that require the heat and friction created by a rotary to break down properly. This product will not work as it was intended to if applied by hand. Scratch X on the other hand is designed for hand application. Be aware, Scratch-X is not a wipe on, wipe off product. It must be worked into the paint. If you begin by using Scratch-X by hand, then you will not need #83 or #82. These products also work better when applied by machine. Meg’s #7 is a pure polish and unless you have a dark finish such as red or black, it will be hard to see the benefits that #7 has to offer. So, in my opinion, and considering you are doing this strictly by hand, I would just prep with Scratch-X and top it off with NXT. Once you obtain a PC, then you can benefit from the 5 step process and some of Meg’s Professional Line products. So don’t wear yourself out.

If you did have a machine then I would:

1. Wash

2. Clay

3. Prep with #83 DACP with cutting pad or polishing pad (depending on the amount and severity of swirls)

4. Final polish with #82 SFP using a polishing pad (primarily if you have a dark colored car and notice any micro marring left by step 2).

5. Apply #81 Hand Polish or #7 SCG with finishing pad-they are essentially the same, but I believe 81 is easier to remove. (Better for Darker colors)

6. Apply NXT with polishing pad.

Just my 2c. Good luck.

[LiveWire]

I'll try ScratchX for the meantime and see if it works, as well as those you mentioned above.

Its not too abrasive a product is it? I mean, it doesn't take out the clear coat/paint and ' thins' it out? How does it take out scratches by the way?

Anyway, my car is a red '03 rav4(pics when you click on the link in my sig)... I rarely use it and I drive it on sundays only or if my other car breaks down(which I hope it doesn't )... I have another car - a diesel van, diesel is much cheaper here and its my daily driver. My Rav4 gets waxed everytime with #26 even if it does'nt get driven that how much I like detailing my car . Do you think I should still clay it? You think DCS paint cleaner will work? The only quality claybar i've seen is Mothers. No megs clay... and its a bit pricey at USD $30(converted) so i'm kinda having 2nd thoughts...

[gman39120]

Scratch X is a mild abrasive. Any polish that removes swirl marks is going to be abrasive. As far as thinning your paint, you need not worry. Scratch-X is not going to harm your finish. The DCS paint cleaner is a chemical cleaner and does not have as much bite as Scratch-X. To quote Meguiar's:

Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner
This amazing, nonabrasive cleaner safely removes contaminants, light oxidation, light scratches and swirls to restore damaged and dull finishes. This easy to use formula uses advanced technology to prepare all paint finishes for polishing and waxing.

and....

ScratchX is the most effective way to remove fine scratches and swirls from automotive paint by hand. This product is guaranteed to deliver the finest results possible by hand (some scratches require removal by machine applied professional formulas). ScratchX removes surface contaminants, oxidation and blemishes as well as enhances paint color. Unlike many paint correction formulas on the market, ScratchX will not leave more scratches than it takes out. It's ideal for use as a quick touch up or to revive a car's entire finish.

You can always benefit from claying the surface. Claying is not going to harm your finish at all.

Here's Meg's link on swirl marks...

http://www.meguiars.com/faq/_index.cfm?faqCat=Swirl%20Marks&faqQuestionID=58&section=_58#_58

They say the proof is in the pudding...

[LiveWire]

wow! jaw dropping shine!

i sure hope i could do the same on my ride

thanks for all the help guys... hopefully i could post some pics soon...

[tguil]

If you really need to do the work by hand, I'd suggest using #9 rather than Scratch X followed by #81. Both can be applied by hand. I tend to prefer the Professional line of products over the Consumer line.

You may want to try the less expensive orbital buffer with the above products. For years I used an 11-inch Waxco orbital buffer and managed to get darned good results. It sure beat applying and removing the product by hand. On many occassions I'd have to repeat the process several times using the old buffer.

The orbital buffer is certainly not a pc, but it may surprise you.

Tom