New Paint Job - How To Hand Rub Fresh Paint to a High Gloss

[trav]

New Paint Job - How To Hand Rub Fresh Paint to a High Gloss

Hey Guys,
I'm from Adelaide, Australia.
I've painted my car with acrylic paint + clear coat, now i'm ready for the cut to make it shine.

Can you point me in the right direction to get some advice on how to do the first cut? I want to do it by hand, without using a rotary buffer - feel a bit more confident.

I've searched and browsed, but haven't come accross a good DIY guide for NEW paint!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

One question... can you be a little more specific...

What are you working on?

1. Modern paint technology
2. Traditional solvent-evaporation lacquer paint

Can you name the paint system?


The reason you haven't found any threads or articles or anything on how to hand rub a new paint job is because it's just not a practical way to achieve the goal in a acceptable time frame.

Before we type any more information, let us ask you a few questions so that we can be sure we're on the same page. When you say you want to cut the paint... do you mean you want to,

1) Wet-sanding the paint to remove any orange peel and then remove your sanding marks by hand?
2) Just rubbing the new paint out with some type of product by hand? (not sanding the finish with some type of wet/dry paper)


This paint system you used, this is a modern paint system? That is you're not talking about spraying a solvent-evaporation clear lacquer paint from the 1950's over a colored layer of lacquer paint. Correct?


A lot of people don't realize that we've had clear coat paints for a long time but there's a huge difference between a the custom paint jobs of the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's where custom painters would apply clear lacquer over pigmented lacquer and the modern clear coat paints being sprayed today. Sure the last coat of paint is clear paint but the two different types of paints are worlds apart especially when it comes to sanding and buffing.


We needed to ask these questions upfront because history has shown us to not ask these questions means to sometimes supply the wrong answer.


In most cases, if you're working on a modern paint system, what this is going to mean is that the paint is going to be hard enough that you won't be able to smooth the paint out by hand and get good results. It will require the use of a rotary buffer.


If you spend any amount of time on this forum you'll find out one of the most common topics is people coming to the forum trying to find help in removing swirls, scratches and etchings out of their paint. What we do is spend a lot of time explaining to them that because modern paints are harder, not softer, than traditional paints that it's going to be more difficult for them to remove the defects because removing defects means removing paint. And that's where it gets tricky. You need a system for removing paint that won't put scratches in at the same time and will leave a beautiful, high gloss finish.

That's where polishing paint becomes an art form, not just merely a mechanical process.

So...

What are you working on?

1. New paint technology?
2. Old paint technology?

Also, you say you just painted the car?

1. Is the paint a day old or a month old or ???
2. How many days has it been since the last coat of paint was sprayed.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

Oh yeah... seeing this is your first post...

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

[trav]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

I didnt use a 2-pack paint system, rather an acrylic metallic paint, followed by 6 or more coats of acrylic clear lacquer - which did contain thinners - so maybe i am using 1950's technology... but it looks good!

I need to cut the paint because the finish is not shiney. The metallic paint does not have orange peal - the final spray of paint was a light uni-directional coat, which causes the metallic particles to stand up and reflect more light. I then coated with 6 coats of clear - my paint supplier said 4+2 to cut back. So the reason for the cut-back is to get a nice shine - the job now is a bit dull.

My paint supplier said to leave the car for 3 weeks, for the paint to harden in the outdoors before I attempted to cut it back. My mate did a similar thing 4-5 years ago, and cut his paint job back by hand. He brought a little tin of cutting compound.

How impractical is it to cut a whole car by hand without using a rotary buffer? I dont mind spending a day of hard work, rather than risk using a rotary buffer and making mistakes.

On a side note, I notice Meguiars make some cutting compounds which say they are for rotary buffer use ONLY. Why cant these be use to cut by hand?

Thanks for all the help,
I'm glad I came accross this forum - lots of good information - i'll spend lots of time coming back and researching!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

This is the answer I was looking for,

I didnt use a 2-pack paint system, rather an acrylic metallic paint, followed by 6 or more coats of acrylic clear lacquer - which did contain thinners - so maybe i am using 1950's technology... but it looks good!

And this is why we wrote this in our first reply

We needed to ask these questions upfront because history has shown us to not ask these questions means to sometimes supply the wrong answer.

We used to make our M04 Heavy Cut Cleaner a product for use by hand to do exactly what you want to do, rub out a paint by hand. The formula has been changed and now it is a product for rotary buffer use only. I'm not sure how it would work today on an older paint system.

Look around your auto parts stores for a product called M01 Medium Cut Cleaner. This is a product that was originally made for these older style paints that we don't think the formula has been changed, or at least changed enough to keep you from using it for what you want to do.

We'll be in the office today and talk with Mike Pennington and R&D about your project and when we get back online we can post some more information about how to go about this job.

It's looking like it's going to be...

Step 1 - Rub the paint out using M01 Medium Cut Cleaner using terry cloth or a microfiber applicator pad.

Step 2 - Rub the paint out using M02 Fine Cut Cleaner

Step 3 - Rub the paint out with M07 Show Car Glaze

Step 4 - Apply wax

Step 5 - Step back and admire the results. Maybe put some sun glasses on first.


So let us do some research and when we get back online we'll post some more. Until then...

How about some pictures?




We would really like to see what your working on plus it would be really great to see some before pictures and then some after pictures.

[the other pc]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

I didnt use a 2-pack paint system, rather an acrylic metallic paint, followed by 6 or more coats of acrylic clear lacquer...

Any chance you could tell us the exact paint you used? The full name, including manufacturer, brand, system and any part numbers would be helpful (specifically the topcoat).

some examples of what coating names look like:
PPG Duracryl Acrylic Lacquer System
BASF Glasurit 923-155 MS Clear
DuPont ChromaPremier 72500S Premium Appearance Clear
House of Kolor Kustom Kolor SC01

...How impractical is it to cut a whole car by hand without using a rotary buffer? I dont mind spending a day of hard work, rather than risk using a rotary buffer and making mistakes. ...

How about a week? A month? It really depends on the coating system. Some of the current systems are incredibly tough.


PC.

[trav]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

I find it hard to understand why it is important what paint was used... because the top layer is 6 layers of clear coat.
Maybe its my logical thinking, but the cut+polish is affecting the CLEAR on top, and i thought the paint underneath would not be relevant?

The clear used was : Spartan Acrylic Clear

[trav]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

Is this the one you mean? M0*?
This is the one i saw at Autobarn, which saws USE ROTARY BUFFER ONLY!
Thanks for your help guys, great forum!

[the other pc]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

I find it hard to understand why it is important what paint was used...

I think we simply have a difference in terminology.

... because the top layer is 6 layers of clear coat…

That's the paint I'm talking about. The clear topcoat is paint. It's a type of paint that doesn't have any pigment.

…Maybe its my logical thinking, but the cut+polish is affecting the CLEAR on top…

You are correct.

… i thought the paint underneath would not be relevant?…

You're right that the base coat doesn't significantly affect the sand, cut and buff. I just never consider the base and top coats to be independent. They work together as a system.

…The clear used was : Spartan Acrylic Clear

I'm not familiar with that brand of coating and I didn't find any technical info while Googling it. I guess I can't suggest anything specific to it. Hopefully, somebody who has experience with it can chime in.

I can suggest that if you do try it by hand that you start out with a small test spot (like 150mm by 150mm) and see how long it takes you bring it to whatever state you consider acceptable. Then multiplying that time by how much bigger the whole car is (several hundred perhaps?) will give you an idea of how long it will take.

Better yet, if you still have some of the topcoat left, you can spray some test pieces and use them to develop your process.


PC.

[trav]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

Is this the one you mean? M0*?
This is the one i saw at Autobarn, which saws USE ROTARY BUFFER ONLY!
Thanks for your help guys, great forum!

This one says USE WITH ROTARY BUFFER ONLY
Why can't it be used to hand-buff a car?

Thanks guys

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New Paint Job - How To Hand Rub Fresh Paint to a High Gloss

Can you point me in the right direction to get some advice on how to do the first cut? I want to do it by hand, without using a rotary buffer - feel a bit more confident.

Talked to our one of our chemist and Mike Pennington about this and they suggested you try one of our pure polishes by hand using a piece of terry cloth and in this case the terry cloth will become the abrasive. This with a little passion and perspiration should create a glossy surface.

You could also try our M80 Speed Glaze as it has a diminishing abrasive to provide more cut.

As for using one of our more aggressive products by hand they did not recommend any of our products for this.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New Paint Job - Time to cut for the first time - Advice Needed!

This one says USE WITH ROTARY BUFFER ONLY
Why can't it be used to hand-buff a car?

Thanks guys

The majority of the world is now working with catalyzed clear coats and for these types of paint you can't get good results working with these types of product by hand.

You might be able to get away with using M01 Medium Cut Cleaner by hand on an older, softer type of paint. You will need to apply the product with a piece of terry cloth and rub with some passion working the product against the finish until all the diminishing abrasives have been broken down. After this you'll have to repeat the process with a less aggressive product such as M02 or M80 Speed Glaze.

Finally you'll want to use a pure polish like #3 or #7

This is called a hand-rubbed lacquer finish as it was done in the old days and it's a lot of work and while you will be able to create a very glossy surface my guess is you will still see some light scratching left over by your process.

This is about as good as you can get by hand and this is why most everyone uses a machine because a machine will ALWAYS leave a better looking finish.

So depending upon your expectations you may or may not be satisfied.

Best of luck, please take any more questions to our new forum as we're closing this one down to new posts.

Thanks!

Our New Forum