NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

[jfsully]

As in the headline is it possible to layer NXT 2.0 over a cured carnauba?

[MWAUTOPRO]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

I am not certian how the 2.0 formula, I know the original one had some light cleaners in it. The general rule is that you layer you carnauba over your paint sealant (NXT 2.0 in this case) I dont see why anyone would want to put a sealant over a carnauba wax.

I would start from scratch
-wash and clay
-polish
-NXT 2.0
*wait 24 hours
-Then apply your carnauba

[Capt. Dan]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

I did it without a problem. I had put a coat of #16 on for the winter and then bought the NXT 2.0. I dont know if I would say it layered but I put a coat of NXT 2.0 on top and it looks great. I have since put a second coat on a week later and it still looks great. A week later I then put a coat of #26 on and it still looks great. I am going on a road trip this weekend and am thinking about putting a coat of NXT on again. It might be an addiction!!!

All was done with the PC except for the #16. The NXT 2.0 is on and off easy so it does not take me alot of time.

You shouldn't have any problem if you have a new bottle of 2.0 you want to try out.

[Sydster]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

It might be an addiction!!!

I have the same problem, I think we might have to check in a detailing rehab soon.

[MWAUTOPRO]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

I did it without a problem. I had put a coat of #16 on for the winter and then bought the NXT 2.0. I dont know if I would say it layered but I put a coat of NXT 2.0 on top and it looks great. I have since put a second coat on a week later and it still looks great. A week later I then put a coat of #26 on and it still looks great. I am going on a road trip this weekend and am thinking about putting a coat of NXT on again. It might be an addiction!!!

All was done with the PC except for the #16. The NXT 2.0 is on and off easy so it does not take me alot of time.

You shouldn't have any problem if you have a new bottle of 2.0 you want to try out.

Id venture to say you didnt layer it, id say you removed your existing #16.

[d.mopar]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

ive herd carnuba has a melting point of about 101F. if that be the case i would rather seal it in with nxt specially since carnuba gives off the better shine but sythentics have the better protection.

[MWAUTOPRO]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

Well ive never seen a pool of carnuba on any car after it has sat in the sun, nor have I seen any nuba wax immediatly diminish after a hot day. Heres an article on layering.

What's the deal with "Layering?"
Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

[G Force]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

I am not certian how the 2.0 formula, I know the original one had some light cleaners in it. The general rule is that you layer you carnauba over your paint sealant (NXT 2.0 in this case) I dont see why anyone would want to put a sealant over a carnauba wax.

I would start from scratch
-wash and clay
-polish
-NXT 2.0
*wait 24 hours
-Then apply your carnauba

Hi,why would some one apply carnauba on nxt 2 ? thanks

[dave40co]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

I used the new 2.0 and it does contain cleaners in it based on the dirt that was in the application pad.

[MWAUTOPRO]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

Hi,why would some one apply carnauba on nxt 2 ? thanks

Personal opinion, a lot of people see sealants as having a hard "candy like" look to it and that carnauba waxes have a "warmer" look to them. In their eyes they just like the look better.

[G Force]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

Personal opinion, a lot of people see sealants as having a hard "candy like" look to it and that carnauba waxes have a "warmer" look to them. In their eyes they just like the look better.

Yes my friend that is the reason i apply one coat of DC2 and two coats GC liquid wax to my dark blue car for sure it has a warm look.

[RamAirV1]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

It does not make sense to apply a sealant over a carnauba because the sealant will not properly bond to the wax. Plus if the sealant has cleaners it will remove the carnauba.

RamAirV1

[Mike Phillips]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

As in the headline is it possible to layer NXT 2.0 over a cured carnauba?

You can apply a coat of NXT over another wax if you want, just to point out this is not a Meguiar's recommendation, it's just something people like to do.

When you start talking about the word

Layering

We first have to establish what you mean by the word as there are opinions all over the Internet on this subject as because there is so much CONFUSION over this topic and has been for years, that YEARS ago we already addressed this topic of layering in exact detail in our Information Station in the Hot Topics sub-forum.

We'll get the link and the post and copy it to here.


What's the deal with "Layering?"

Originally posted by DevilDog
I have been using NXT on and off all summer long. But the only thing that really scares me about it is its lack of being truly layerable do to its cleaning properties.

Right before the winter months I like to pile on many layers of a product because I cant usually detail from dec to the beginning of march. My vehicle sits outside and is a daily driver and is hardly ever even washed during these times. Maybe a spray off at the local car wash when weather permits but thats about it. I usually go with something from Zaino or KSG for this time of year because of its supposed layering ability.

Now what I have been wandering for sometime is this stuff truly layerable or is it really just hype?

Is 2 layers just as durable as 20?

Is the first 2 thin layers where the durability comes from and the others just sacrificial?

Hi Devildog,

This is usually never a fun discussion and often times will evolve into a flame war. That said, to start with, here is some information from Meguiar's new FAQ

12. Are multiple coats of wax beneficial? (Layering)

That depends on what effect you are looking for: protection or beauty.

Protection

If your looking for the maximum protection possible, then one or two thin coats of wax, maybe even up to three thin coats of wax, has the potential to create the most surface protection depending on the wax, the surface itself and whether or not sufficient time has passed in-between each application. Of course the law of diminishing returns states that you will not create exponentially greater layers of protection with each application, but Meguiar's knows that a second, and sometimes third application will insure uniform, thorough coverage over the majority of the surface, thus maximizing the protection.

Environmental conditions today demand more frequent washing and waxing in order to prevent costly damage to the outer layers of paint. Just as important as a second, and possibly a third coating of wax is to provide the maximum amount of protection in any one detailing session, (especially on the horizontal surfaces), it is also vitally important that you wax more often to maintain your finish. This is especially true if your car is a daily driver exposed to the elements and parked outdoors most of the time.

Beauty

Will more coats of a product make a finish deeper, darker, and wetter looking with each additional application?

In a word: Possibly

Generally speaking, when trying to take your car's finish to its maximum potential for clarity, gloss, shine and depth of color, there comes a point, or a plateau, that you will reach whereupon additional applications of either polish or wax will not increase the results of any of those categories. Of course, you are more apt to reach this plateau if your skill level is high and if the quality of your products is also very high.

These assumptions also assume that the surface in question is on

• * A brand new car
  * A car with a brand new paint job
  * An older car whose finish has been well maintained and is in excellent condition
  * An older car whose finish has been professional restored to excellent condition

If any of the above holds true, then you will most certainly hit the wall, so to speak, reaching that plateau of perfection whereby further applications will not improve the results of the previously applied coating. Your finish will have reached its maximum potential in appearance value.

After time goes by and this plateau you have previously reached begins to diminish, you can restore the paint to it's maximum potential again, quickly and easily by simply applying a new coat of the right wax or polish. This maintenance procedure will only act to restore the finish back to it's maximum potential and shouldn't be positioned, or confused with making your surface deeper, darker, shinier, etc. than it's maximum potential.

Once you hit 100% max potential, (or that plateau), it's time to stand back and admire the results, not continue to apply more and more coats.

Special Note: Ideas suggesting that repeated applications of a product will continue to increase optic clarity and gloss and protection are misleading you and your own common sense should enable you to understand that a finish, whether black, red, single-stage, clear coat, etc. has a limit to how perfect it can become. 100% of 100 is 100


Copied and pasted from Meguiar's *NEW* FAQ ,

13. Can Meguiar's waxes be "Layered"?

Meguiar's waxes can be layered, but two things must be tended to when layering waxes. 1) You must use the right waxes ("Layerable" waxes), and 2) You must recognize that at some point, "The Law of Diminishing Returns" takes effect.


Layerable waxes

A Layerable wax, is a wax that the protective ingredients used in the formula (natural and synthetic), are such that the protective layer left behind will not only adhere to the paint, but in subsequent applications, will adhere to itself. It also means that the carrying agents, be they solvent, water or something else, cannot be strong enough or in high enough concentrations to re-liquefy the previously applied layer, thus removing it during your attempt to add another layer.

Layerable waxes are primarily pure waxes, or protectants (as synthetic formulas are referred to) that do not contain chemical cleaners, or solvents that will remove the previous layer.

There is an exception to this rule and that is that it is possible to first apply a cleaner wax, and then apply a pure wax or pure synthetic over it.


The Law of Diminishing Returns
(Thomas Malthus "Essay on the Principle of Population" published in 1798.)

While this theory is generally used to discuss topics as they relate to the areas of economics and politics, it is a model that can also be used to explain in this case, the complex action occurring at the microscopic level on the surface of your car's finish.

The law of diminishing returns as it relates to layering,

A surface, such as an automotive paint, can only hold so much product before all you're doing is removing all subsequent coatings applied to the surface.


That is to say, after the first, second and in some cases a third application/coating, any more product applied to the surface is merely removed when you wipe the excess off after waiting for the product to cure.

At this point you've reached a plateau (or limit), as to how much wax (natural or synthetic) a surface can hold. Once you reach this plateau, all further applications of wax simply become excess that will be removed (and thus wasted), during wipe-off because it has nowhere to attach and layer.

Of course, this all depends upon your definition of the word "Layer". If your definition of the word layer follows that of Webster's Dictionary:

2 a: One thickness, course, or fold, laid or lying over or under another.

Then yes, you can layer to a certain point. For example, you can add multiple layers of layerable waxes until the limit to how much a given surface of an automotive paint can hold before each additional application is simply removed, or replaces a previously applied layer.

You cannot layer to the point of developing a measurable film-build, and this is key; without negatively affecting, or diminishing to some degree, the shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color etc. of the finish



This is especially true if the product you're applying is not clear (in and of itself) to start with. If your definition of the word "layer" follows that of definition used by some on the Internet,

Layer 1: To continually build a greater level of protection with each additional application, or layer, of a wax or protectant. (Natural or synthetic)

Layer 2: To continually increase shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color without end and/or after a plateau, or point of maximum potential has been achieved.

Then no, you cannot layer a wax, synthetic, natural, or otherwise.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

This thread also applies, not Meguiar's doesn't "recommend" topping, we just wrote the article on it because we know that people read about it and then may want to try it, so the below article was written to bring some common sense to the procedure.


Topping NXT

There is always a lot of talk about topping NXT with other products, because this is a popular topic, I thought I would offer this simple suggestion.

If you think you would like to apply a topper over NXT, before you apply your choice of a topper over the entire finish, first do a side-by-side comparison and inspect your results carefully to insure that the test area does in fact look better than NXT by itself before applying your choice of topper to the entire finish. If you apply your choice of a topper to the entire car without comparing, you will never know if it improved or diminished the results created by the NXT alone.


Here's how to do a test spot,

First - Wait until you have two thin, uniform applications of NXT Tech Wax over the entire finish. Two thin applications always look better than one application.

Second - Find a nice flat panel like the hood or deck lid so that you can look down on the finish while standing over it. Apply your choice of a topper to a square section about one foot square being careful to do so in a way as to have a very distinct section with only the topper in this section. Allow the topper to dry according to the instruction and the remove with a microfiber polishing cloth or a clean, soft 100% cotton terry cloth towel. To be fair, you should apply a second coat in this same section to insure a uniform application. Again, apply and remove according to the product's directions.

After you applied and removed your choice of a topper carefully, inspect the two areas under different lighting conditions. Different lighting conditions will allow your eyes to see the different dimensions of your finish, such as richness, gloss, shine and clearness or clarity. View the two areas from different angles, from directly overhead, and with a light source centered in the area, like the sun. You may also want to have some friends compare the two areas also, a second set of fresh eyes may see something you miss, especially after you've been working on the finish and staring at the paint for hours.

If after doing this side-by-side comparison test in one small area, your eyes will tell you whether or not you want to continue with applying the topper to the entire finish.

Hope this helps...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: NXT 2.0 over Carnauba?

It does not make sense to apply a sealant over a Carnauba because the sealant will not properly bond to the wax. Plus if the sealant has cleaners it will remove the Carnauba.

RamAirV1

Usually, threads like this one, at their core, end up being about,

Does NXT contain cleaners or not

and

Will the cleaners in NXT remove the previous layer of NXT

Or in this case whatever Carnauba wax the original poster may have been referring to.


People seem to like to get all AR about some issues, like cleaners and such but they don't like it if someone else gets all AR about related issues, like the ones we bring out in this thread.


Does #7 Remove Wax?

Remember, when you RUB anything over any kind of surface, for example if your hands are dirty and you get them wet with water and then use one hand to rub the other hand you will to some degree clean the dirt off your hands even if you never had soap in the mix. It's the water and the rubbing action doing the cleaning and no cleaners or abrasives are involved at all.

The way this ties into this thread is this,

Anytime you have a layer of some kind of wax on the surface of an automotive finish, and you take any other liquid and apply it to this micron thin coating and the run on it, don't you think at some level the rubbing action together with the liquid chemical, (whatever it is), and the abrading or cleaning power supplied by your application material will remove some of the previously applied product?

Hint, it certainly isn't adding more of the previously applied product.

Here's what Meguiar's recommends... Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle

That is,

Wash
Clay if needed
Clean if needed
Polish - this is an optional step
Protect - one to two thin coats of your favorite paint sealant or wax.

In the Protection Step, Meguiar's recommends applying one or two coats of your favorite wax or paint sealant. The purpose of the second coat is NOT to create a thicker layer, (assuming you did a good job of applying the first coat, allowing it to properly dry and then carefully wiping it off), but to,

* Insures Uniform Appearance
* Insure Uniform Protection

Now any other "Layering" done with any combination of products outside of the above is totally personal preference.