DA Polisher Novice Questions

[HK77]

Hi,
I've got a PC and M80 to remove swirls out of my car today and was unsuccessful. I know that there's something wrong with my method but as I've no experience with a PC, I really don't know what to point out. So, please help me by answering these questions.
I know that Meguiars not recommend orange/yellow pads (cutting pads). So I did it with white LC pad with speed 5.

1. For a 12"x12" section and the product about 2 pea size, how many passes will be normally needed to break down the polish and ready to wipe out? (Please correct me if the product size and the working area size is not correct.)

2. I did the passes in side by side and also up/down with overlapping motion in many passes and I can't remember how many passes. So, when people in this forum means 1 "Passes/Complete Passes" for an area means "One Side by Side / Up side-down pass" or "one side by side+one upside-down pass"? For a working area and product size as I've mentioned, what will be the average pasess needed to break down M80?

3. I'm working in a pearl white car and so, can't see whether the polish is broken down or not. So, what's the average working time for 12"x12" area with 2 pea size product? I know that environmental factors vary but I just want to have an idea whether it's about 3 minutes/5 minutes/10 minutes?

Only after getting help, I can think whether the technique is wrong or I need to move up to more aggressive one. Also, I have a difficulty in getting 83. So, if after trying and make sure the right technique and if there's still no improvement, I'll have to live with it b/4 I can get to a 83.

Thanks All,
HK77

[RogueGypsy]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

There are a lot of variables to consider. Pictures will help others evaluate what is or is not happening.

First look at these links:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2524

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24776

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2965

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21413

As far as application and work time go, for me with a PC7336SP & M80 I use either a 8006 or 9006 pad. I start with the least aggressive (9006) on a test spot, then move to the polishing pad (8006) if needed. I work the product in a 12x12 area up and down, then side to side over the whole area (1 pass). Depending on temperature, humidity and pressure on the pad working time will vary. Typically the easiest way for me to tell if the product is broken down is the way it looks (I work the product until it no longer has any color, it becomes opaque) and how it feels under the pad moving the machine (there should not be any grip, the pad should slide easily). In general, 65deg, shade, 50% humidity working time for me with M80 is less than a minute.

Some defects will take more than 1 pass, some defects will need a more aggressive pad, some defects will require more pressure on the pad. Some defects will require a more aggressive product. Some defects will need a rotary. Some defects will need new paint. Just keep working in 12x12 test spots until you find what is going to work. Always check your work in very bright light, the sun is best.

Now, post some pictures so we can help you out.

Oh, and you may not be using enough product. I use an 'X' from side to side on the pad, a thin circle around the outside of the pad or 5 pea side spots.


Brock
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[christian6984]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

many factors will be affecting the number of passes etc, for example getting perfect results on VW/Audi paint is harder as the paints are rock solid. but its a case of practice and many many hours of reading.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

I know that there's something wrong with my method

Give this a read...

Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
(These are all similar tools)

[HK77]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

Thank you Everyone, especially Mike. I think my technique was a little bit wrong yesterday but sorry as I didn't take any pictuers and it was really difficult to take pictuers on a white car. I can't really see the polish on the paint with my naked eye and so I though it won't be easy to catch that on a photo.

Yesterday, I worked for an area of 12"x12" size for about 3-4 passes and work about 5 minutes. That's why the product nearly thinned out and almost dry and dusty. Tha'ts quite strange that in one movie clip, I've seen a man working in the product for about 5-6 minutes and many many passes for about the same working space and product size. That's why I keep in mind to work in a long time exactly as he did. So, regarding Mike's post, 1-2 passes will be average and 1-2 minute working time is average for normal conditions (no rain, not windy, temperature about 28-30 degree Celsius)

For product size, the amount of product in the following pictuer is for use in what size of a working area? For 12"x12", will it be too much. Next, is there any way you can check whether polish is broken down or not on a White car. Yesterday, it was a pain to polish, then stop, then check from lateral view, then polish again.




Thank you All

[christian6984]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

the polish amounts above would do a large ish area, looks like a bit much product for a too large area, if you are after correction. You are working with white.. we used to have a white car and i hated it for this reason, Halogen work lights or maybe a brinkmann to see if correction is achieved

[HK77]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

So, the product amount as in the above picture is for how large an area if I plan to use M80 or M83(I don't have)? For a 12"x12" section, 5 pea size will be enough or over?

Thanks

[christian6984]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

yeah try a few pea size dots for 12'', the above amounts would do at least half a bonnet i would think, the product worst best with just the right amount.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

yeah try a few pea size dots for 12'', the above amounts would do at least half a bonnet i would think, the product worst best with just the right amount.

How much you use depends upon a lot of things, the amount shown on the pad is the amount you would use for removing swirls out of a finish in bad shape, (which is what most people are working on when removing swirls), for an area around 20" square or so...

You don't want to tackle too large an area at one time when using a DA Polisher because the tool is not as powerful as a rotary buffer and you need to focus your abrading/cleaning power to a smaller area to remove enough paint to remove the defects.

Using too little product means there wont be enough diminishing abrasives to abrade/clean the paint and remove swirls and scratches.

There's lots of variables that would take an entire book to list so each person kind of finds their own technique and that only happens after you go out into the garage and start putting some hours behind the polisher.

The above pictures also show product on DRY pads, after you break your pad in, (after you've applied the initial product), and you pad is now damp with product you can cut down the amount of product you apply as more product will now be working on the surface and not soaking into the pad.

[christian6984]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

so basically its practice, practice and practise some more

[HK77]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

Hi All,
Today, I've taken out my PC again to apply DC2 and M21 2.0 on my another car. For DC2, every thing went fine with my LC Black Pad. For M21 2.0, I used the product amount something like int the below pictuer for half of a door panel. Is it too much? I made a complete pass (side-side + upside down) for M21. The problem is M21 is more watery than DC2 and M80, I think. At first, it seemd OK but after half the car is done, my pad no longer produced results like before and becomes so much saturated. I did clean it on the fly but there is also some problem as the cottons from my towel becomes gummed up on the pad after cleaning it on the fly.
After 2/3 of the car is done, I can no longer use the PC and then, I have to switch to apply by hand as I have only 2 black pad and one pad is used with DC2 so, I don't want to use it again. So, please suggest me what's my problem. Too much product? Too large an area?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

Hi All,
Today, I've taken out my PC again to apply DC2 and M21 2.0 on my another car.

For DC2, every thing went fine with my LC Black Pad.

For M21 2.0, I used the product amount something like int the below picture for half of a door panel. Is it too much?

For the waxing step, "Yes" that's too much.

When you're applying wax you only need to apply a thin coating, whether you're working by hand or machine.

Cut down on how much product you're placing on the pad when using a sealant like M21

When it comes to waxing, pad saturation is a sign you're using too much product. Also be sure you're on a lower speed, like the 3 or 4 speed setting, you don't need high speed to spread out a layer of wax.

[HK77]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

Thank you Mike,
So, what if I use half the product size in that picture for about half the door panel? Sorry for stupid questions but it make me really confused and headache during applying the waxes/sealants as all my car colours are white and silver and M21/NXT are all light colours/white colours. I can't even see which area I've applied. So, it's really difficult to see whether the product is enough or not. So, I have to learn from other people's experiences.

Next, is it OK to apply M21 2.0/NXT to an area as large as half a bonnet or a door panel at one time?

Thanks,
HK77

[Mike Phillips]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

Just use less wax, place about 1/4th as much as you see in the above pictures when starting with a dry pad. As you work around the car your pad will become damp with product and you'll find a little wax applied to the face of the pad goes a long ways.

Working on light colored cars is difficult as it can be hard to see a thin coat of wax, best thing you can do is to look at the finish from an angle as well as pay attention as you're applying wax so you know where you've applied it and where you haven't.

Someone posted a unique little tip and that was to touch the face of your buffing pad onto the glass and this will show you how much wax is on the pad by the volume of smudge on the glass, which is typically easier to see than on the paint. Use this as a guide as to when you have enough wax or need more.

The key goal is to apply a thin but well worked coating of wax. Using too much wax just wastes product and saturates your pad.

Keep practicing, with practice comes perfection... you'll get there...

[RogueGypsy]

Re: DA Polisher Novice Questions

HK-

When I use the DA to apply a sealant like #21 2.0 (not sure if the original #21 is recommended for DA application), I put 5 Pea size dots around the outer edge of the pad. I press (not rub) the pad on the body panel in a couple of places in the area I'm working, to avoid splatter. Then work the pad around the area, spreading the wax until the pad starts to grip the panel, then add more wax and continue. The pad will start to grip the panel when it's getting dry (out of product). If you are applying sealant on '3' speed, it's easy to tell when you need more.


HTH,

Brock

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