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I tried out my makita rotary for the first time last night on an old hood. i actually did some wetsanding with 1500 and 2000 grit paper. i removed the sanding marks with 105, then used 151 on one of the makita's polishing pads. it looked absolutely great, i was really impressed. about half an hour later a buddy came over to look at it. i wanted to show him how easy i thought the rotary was to use. so i take the same pad and use a little more 151 on a small area. when i got done we examined the work and it was like the light just exploded on the paint. i'm not really sure what happened. i took some more 105 and used the pad i had previously used and that took care of it. the only thing i can think of would be reusing the pad, but it had only been about 30 minutes. any ideas?
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Re: d151 left holograms
Only the most experienced rotary users can produce a 100% swirl free finish. I always follow up with a DA polisher just to be sure they are all out.Originally posted by sudsbyhubbs View Post
What pad were you using Foam/wool, cutting/polishing?
Rasky -
Re: d151 left holograms
well when i used the 151 the first time it was almost perfect. it was only after the second time that i got the holograms. the pad was like a cutting/polishing.Comment
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Re: d151 left holograms Oct 17th, 2008, 06:42 AM
How did you inspect your results each time?Originally posted by sudsbyhubbs View Post
Move the car into the sun?
Use a swirl finder light?
General comments...
Controlling the variables
Like Rasky said, creating an absolute swirl-free finish with a rotary buffer is an art form, and besides the factors of pads, products and your skills and abilities, another factor is always the paint itself, some paints polish better than others. So trying to create an absolute swirl-free finish using only a rotary buffer can be done but only when all the factors are working in your favor.
Skills and Abilities
The date of this thread, (the one you're reading right now), is Oct 17th, 2008, 06:42 AM
The date of this thread,
New Makita
is Oct 14th, 2008, 10:38 AM
You've owned your rotary buffer for 3 days. You can learn a lot in 3 days but probably not mastering the rotary buffer with a few products, a few pads, (the two pads that came with the Makita), buffing out a few cars. But you're off to a great start!
Wool or fiber pads
Besides that, finishing with a foam pad over a fiber pad is a huge benefit because a foam pad offers a uniform surface with a even consistency, (look at a foam finishing pad and look and feel how soft and gentle the foam is), while finishing with ANY kind of 'fiber' pad, whether a wool cutting pad or a wool 'finishing' pad, you have mass individual fibers cutting the paint. The fibers themselves are a type of abrasive and will tend to leave swirls or circular cuts in the paint when rotated against the paint under pressure.
So try switching to a foam buffing pad for any finishing work.
Production Products
D151 is a strong cleaner/wax developed for production detailing. It's not a swirl removing finishing product although it can be used for this when used the right way.
Dual Action Polishers
To insure a swirl free finish, most Pros do their last or second-to-last machine steps using a dual action polisher with a polishing or finishing pad and a light cleaner/polish or cleaner/wax.
By switching to a dual action polisher you switch to a machine where you're dramatically changing the action of the machine and this action is one of oscillating under the freedom of a clutch versus forced rotating by a rotary buffer. And it is the changing of the action of the tool that changes the type of abrading action on the surface that will enable you to remove light swirls and leave a flat finish. Not flat in like dull, but flat like in smooth without swirls.
Hope this helps...
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Re: d151 left holograms
i wasn't intending on having the 151 be the final product. just curious why it would go on good under a xenon light the first time, then after the second application have some holograms.Comment
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Re: d151 left holograms
Did you spur or wash your pad for the second time? You always have to work clean.Originally posted by sudsbyhubbs View Post
Are you sure there weren't swirls the first time and you just didn't see them?
D151 is a wax so it does have the ability to fill in it's own swirls?
Without being there I can't say for sure but I invested some time into my first post to help explain and suggest the process and problems and even solution.
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Re: d151 left holograms
hopefully i didn't give the impression that i had "mastered" the rotary after 3 days. this was the first time i used it, i liked it, i haven't been able to examine the hood in the sun as i finished at 9:00 last night and it's not on a car. i do appreciate the time you took to explain a lot of things the other day mike. that's one of the great things about this forum. i was just curious if anyone else had seen this same thing with 151. it was probably just user error.Comment
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Re: d151 left holograms
thanks for the tips mike.Comment
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Re: d151 left holograms
Just my 2p worth
Although I haven't used D151 before the following is what we do with each and every product more or less.
When you finish with a polisher/pad it's best to switch the machine on speed 1 and brush the pad, this removes any remains of polish and so it won't dry in "clumps".
When using the rotary try varying the speed as follows: -
Speed 1 to spread product
Speed 2 for a couple of passes
Speed 3 for 8 to 10 passes or until product is clear (inspect now & again)
Speed 2 for another 5 or 6 passes to refine finish
Inspect and repeat as required
BryanComment
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Re: d151 left holograms
Then why are you using a one step product then?Originally posted by sudsbyhubbs View Post
I can see using D151 with a polishing pad to remove major defects then using it with a finishing pad to refine the finish, but to use it as a compound then top with some other type of protection kills the point of D151.
If it's bad and you wish to use another LSP, why not use a dedicated compound/polish first?
I can't figure out the misuse of a one stepper with it's name clearly stated.www.clean4udetailing.com
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Re: d151 left holograms
IMO, I have found my halogen lights to be better at showing swirls/holograms than my dual xenon light. Rarley will I have sunlight to inspect my test spots.Originally posted by sudsbyhubbs View PostComment
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Re: d151 left holograms
i used 105 first, then used 151. this is just a practice hood, i'm not going to put any wax on it at all right now. the whole point for my post was to see if anyone knew why after one pass of 151 with no swirls or holograms would show some holograms on the second pass. after the first pass i used a xenon light and a halogen light and didn't see any swirls or holograms.Comment
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Re: d151 left holograms
Well, you said you used Makita's pad. We have no idea about the pores per inch, the softness, or basically anything about that pad. Remember, it's just not the chemical doing the work.........it's also the pad. I've noticed that you have to make sure all of 105's residue is off of the panel or you basically have sand sitting on the paint. You may have also worked 151 to long and dry buffed the paint. Dry it again and use a pad that we know about like a Meg's finishing pad. Remember, 151 is a wax. You don't want to work it till it starts to vanish. Not good.
Let us know!www.clean4udetailing.com
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