M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

[craigrhyne]

Hey guys,
I'm currently in the process of restoring a 1988 BMW M5 (mechanically and cosmetically) that sat outside under a cypress oak tree in Kerrville, Tx for 7 years. As of right now the black single stage paint is riddled with significant staining/oxidation and, overall, is in very poor condition. Initially, I had planned to repaint the car, but after reading through this forum for a couple of days, I'm thinking it might be possible to restore the paint given the proper equipment/chemicals are used. Based on my reading, I have come up with a list of equipment, chemicals, and a general process, that I was hoping you guys could critique for me:

1. Wash the car with a soap that has the ability to strip grease, wax, etc.

2. Dry with MF towel.

3. It seems that a lot of people would clay bar at this point, however, I feel that in my case this might prove to be a waste of time based on the information I've found regarding poor-condition single stage paint.

4. Use a heavy cut wool pad (W5000 or equivalent) and M105@ 1200-1500 rpm to accomplish initial cut. A question I have regarding this stage: Do most people prime the pad with M105 or a light spray of water? Many posts recommend priming the pad with M105 via the KBRM, however, the Meguiar's how-to video shows the instructor priming with water pre-use of #85 compound.

5. Wipe with MF towel

6. Polish using a foam polishing pad (Soft Buff 2.0 or equivalent) and M205@ 1000-1200rpm.

7. Wipe with MF towel

8. Apply LSP. Would you guys recommend I do this by hand? Also, I would like this to be a long lasting finish as the car will be (carefully) daily driven... Based on that goal, I was planning to apply a sealant (and possibly a wax) as my lsp. Options for this: M#21, Opti-Seal, Zaino, Klasse? For my pourpose, would yall recommend the sealant/wax route as opposed to the glaze/wax route?

In all honesty, I had planned to use Lake Country pads instead of M's as they are cheaper

Here is my equipment list so far:

32oz M105
32oz M205
M#34- Idk why why I added this.. maybe for clay barring later or priming a pad... It's cheap soo why not
3 Flat 6.5" Lake Country orange pads
3 Flat 6.5" Lake Country white pads
3 Flat 6.5" Lake Country black pads
3 4 ply twisted heavy cut Lake Country wool pads
Pad cleaning spur
Pad cleaning wire brush
Some type of LSP

Are all the different pads necessary? My fear is that I'll decide not to buy the orange pads, and the wools will be to much.. or I'll not buy the wool pads, and the orange won't be enough... Same for the black/white pads. I would also like to use this same equipment on several of my dad's Supras, but they are in excellent condition and would only require minor work. Also, do I need so many of each type of pad? I've read that the single stage paint will gum pads quickly so my initial thought was to over buy instead of under buy. The last thing I want to do is start the project, and then figure out I do not have all of the necessary supplies (I'm slightly pressed for time as I'll be traveling home from school on the weekends to do the work in my parent's, haha well more my dad's, MUCH nicer garage/home shop).

Thanks in advance,
Craig

[Markus Kleis]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

Looks pretty solid but I doubt you will need 3 wool pads.

I would add some M07 or M05 into the mix after all of the compounding and polishing, but before the LSP. M21 2.0 is a fantastic LSP... but many also like M26 for single stage paints.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

It's tough to gauge the proper pad and liquid without working on the car or seeing it up close.

Have you used a rotary before? I don't mean to sound cruel, but it really isn't a good idea to try out a rotary on a vehicle that you care for.

It seems that a lot of people would clay bar at this point, however, I feel that in my case this might prove to be a waste of time based on the information I've found regarding poor-condition single stage paint.

Even if you are going to be compounding with a wool pad, it is still a good ideal to clay the car.

Do most people prime the pad with M105 or a light spray of water? Many posts recommend priming the pad with M105 via the KBRM, however, the Meguiar's how-to video shows the instructor priming with water pre-use of #85 compound.

When using M105, I would prime the pad using M105 (KBRM) to get the most cut out of the pad. If you want to lower the cut, then you can prime it with M34. When using M85, you can use M34 to prime the pad.

Are all the different pads necessary?

In my opinion, the orange pads are not really necessary. After using a W5000 pad, the finish will have some holograms. I would get a few more of the white and black pads instead. The white pads can be used with M105 to remove the holograms, while the black pads can be used to refine the finish with M205. If you were not starting with a wool pad, then I would suggest starting with an orange pad. Otherwise, you can accomplish a lot with the white pad.

It's best to buy as many pads as you can fit into your budget. As you use the pads, they will eventually soak up more and more product. A fresh pad will cut better than one that has been used a few times, even if it has been cleaned with a brush.

To clean your foam pads, use a soft bristle brush. A wire brush will be too hard on the pad and will probably tear it up.

You can apply your lsp using a DA or by hand. It's more preference than anything.

[craigrhyne]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

Looks pretty solid but I doubt you will need 3 wool pads.

Would 3 pads not be a good idea for clogging/washing purposes?

I would add some M07 or M05 into the mix after all of the compounding and polishing, but before the LSP. M21 2.0 is a fantastic LSP... but many also like M26 for single stage paints.

So a sealant will work over a glaze? Several posts I came across said a applying glaze before sealant would cause the sealant not to bond correctly.

Have you used a rotary before? I don't mean to sound cruel, but it really isn't a good idea to try out a rotary on a vehicle that you care for.

Although I have never attempted to do an entire car, I have used a rotary in the past to buff out scratches and heat touch up paint. I'm not too worried about it though.. I've always had a knack for anything mechanical (the reason I chose to double major in engineering ). While I recognize mistakes are much more costly with a rotary, I don't feel like it is all that complicated of a process. Besides... If I burn a whopping hole in the middle of the paint, I'll just repaint the car

Even if you are going to be compounding with a wool pad, it is still a good ideal to clay the car.

I came across a post saying that a clay bar would clog up very quickly and become unusable on really bad single stage paint due to paint transfer. Is this poor information? I guess the aggressive clay would be the proper choice?

In my opinion, the orange pads are not really necessary. After using a W5000 pad, the finish will have some holograms. I would get a few more of the white and black pads instead. The white pads can be used with M105 to remove the holograms, while the black pads can be used to refine the finish with M205. If you were not starting with a wool pad, then I would suggest starting with an orange pad. Otherwise, you can accomplish a lot with the white pad.

I was considering the orange pads for 2 reasons: 1. As a back up in case the wool either A: proved to be too aggressive, or B: Clogged up to easily on the weathered single stage paint. Just from a logical standpoint it seems that the orange foam pad would be much easier to clean if I got into a pickle. 2. For use on another car in the future.. Just how much can a white pad accomplish?

It's best to buy as many pads as you can fit into your budget. As you use the pads, they will eventually soak up more and more product. A fresh pad will cut better than one that has been used a few times, even if it has been cleaned with a brush.

I can buy a whole semi truck full of pads for the price of a high quality paint job In all seriousness though, what would you recommend? maybe 6 white and 6 black?

Thanks,
Craig

[Markus Kleis]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

Would 3 pads not be a good idea for clogging/washing purposes?



So a sealant will work over a glaze? Several posts I came across said a applying glaze before sealant would cause the sealant not to bond correctly.

1.) You should be able to clean it on the fly with the spur... the car should be small enough that two should do the trick. Plus, by the time you are onto your third wool pad due to it being too dirty is about 5 hours after your arms and shoulders will have called it quits

If it gets to that point, you likely will be going on day two...in which case you could wash the first two wool pads and then have them ready for day two. Then again, if you want to play it safe...grab the third one.

2.) Meguiar's waxes are made to work with M07... it will not have bonding issues. Just make sure the M07 is properly removed (wiped away) before adding the LSP.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

Looks like the guys are giving you some good advice.

Since you mentioned that the car sat under trees for a long period of time, I would recommend that you do a complete wipe down of the car using Meguiar's D120 Glass Cleaner Concentrate.

I would mix it stronger than the recommended 10:1. This product contains alcohol as well as other ingredients that will remove any dried on or fresh tree sap. It really is incredible to see! If there are any stubborn remnants, simply saturate a small rag with the concentrated glass cleaner and place it over the sap until it loosens its bond (use anything from 1:1 to 3:1 water/glass cleaner as a starting point).

You certainly don't want that stuff melting into your buffing pads or onto the paint.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

I came across a post saying that a clay bar would clog up very quickly and become unusable on really bad single stage paint due to paint transfer. Is this poor information? I guess the aggressive clay would be the proper choice?

The amount of oxidized paint that ends up on the clay depends on the condition of the paint. If it does start to load up, then knead the for a new section.

On the few cases of severely oxidized paint, the clay had problems dealing with the fallout and overspray, not the oxidation. It can take forever even when using an aggressive clay bar. To deal with the problem, I sanded the paint using 3000 grit papers. The point is that the oxidation was not the reason why the clay was loading up.

I was considering the orange pads for 2 reasons: 1. As a back up in case the wool either A: proved to be too aggressive, or B: Clogged up to easily on the weathered single stage paint. Just from a logical standpoint it seems that the orange foam pad would be much easier to clean if I got into a pickle. 2. For use on another car in the future.. Just how much can a white pad accomplish?

When tackling oxidized paint, it is important to spur the wool pad after every section. That will prevent the pad from clogging too fast.

There's nothing wrong with using an orange pad. However, I prefer to use a lighter cutting wool pad instead of a foam cutting pad when dealing with severe defects. If the paint really is badly oxidized, it can load up a foam pad quickly.

The white pads when combined with M105 can remove the holograms left by a W5000 pad.


You would probably be okay with six white and six black pads. You can also add the orange pads, too. The number of wool pads depends on the severity of the defects.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: M5 Pad/Chem Selection?

Thanks CHRIS and KEVIN for chiming in as well