Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

[lightkep23]

I tried buffing a black car with ultracut compound and an aggresive foam pad. It did well on oxidation but not with the scratches known as "cobweb". Do I need to use a wool pad for that.
And could someone give the steps for removing this defect ?
Thanks

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Moved into Detailing 101 as "Hot Topics" is only for moderators to post in

[Murr1525]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Any pics, what type of car, etc?

[lightkep23]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Black paint on a truck. Sorry no pics. Can you remove cobweb with a wool pad and aggresive cutters or do you need to wet sand?

[the_invisible]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Those cobwebs are probably deep swirls. A wool pad will probably remove them. If the cobwebs you are referring to are too deep, then wetsand may be the quickest method to remove them. Though you may want to try a wool pad first.

What aggressive pad did you use? And at what speed? I have been able to remove some very deep swirls at around 2200rpm with a cutting pad.

[Murr1525]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Yeah, I would be wondering a bit more about your process so far before jumping to very agressive products/tools.

[lightkep23]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Typical wool pad. Ultra cut compound. Moderate pressure on high speed rotary. Not having success on white paint either. I can still see cobweb in the sun. Its nice and shinny though.

[the_invisible]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Hey give the Meguiar's W5000 a try. With M95 or M105, at around 2000rpm.

You will need to refine it with a lighter cutting pad or a polishing pad with some compound or a polish.


I bought the W5000 after noticing that the maroon solo pad was not cutting fast enough. But I was too impatient to wait for the W5000 to arrive, so I kept going with the maroon wool pad and finished the car down.

Though I am not sure if the cobwebs you are talking about is caused by your buffing process. Almost all the time a cutting foam or wool pad will cause some minor scratches.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Hey give the Meguiar's W5000 a try. With M95 or M105, at around 2000rpm.

You will need to refine it with a lighter cutting pad or a polishing pad with some compound or a polish.


I bought the W5000 after noticing that the maroon solo pad was not cutting fast enough. But I was too impatient to wait for the W5000 to arrive, so I kept going with the maroon wool pad and finished the car down.

Though I am not sure if the cobwebs you are talking about is caused by your buffing process. Almost all the time a cutting foam or wool pad will cause some minor scratches.

Morning,

The Invisible:

Realizing that you are extremely new to rotary polishing having getting your rotary polisher only a month ago, your suggestion of 2000 - 2200 rpm is WAY too fast. In most cases one should never exceed 1500 rpm as speeds faster can dry up the lubricating oils in the compounds too quickly leading to burnt paint. This is especially true with foam cutting pads which will heat up the paint extremely quickly at those speeds. Moreover, the W-5000 wool pad is the most aggressive wool pad Meguiar's makes. There are many many other options far less aggressive that can be used with succees and these will be realized as you gain experience over the next few years.

The only time you want to use speeds like you suggested is in the polishing of metals like aluminum where using a specific wool pad, and metal polishes which are designed for high speeds in order to polish and burnish metals. Otherwise, 1000 - 1500 rpm (possibly 1750 RPM if you are extremely experienced and have a laser temperature gun to keep an eye on the paint temperatures!) are the correct speeds to use for paint.


To the original poster, we need to step back for a moment and get away from the haphazard suggestions of wet sanding the paint.

Firstly, if this is OEM paint, it will be too thin to wet sand. Also, while some inexperienced people who have wet sanded a panel or two and experienced success does not make them qualified experts in wet sanding. To do wet sanding properly takes years of practice. It is easy to remove paint with sand paper, but it is difficult to remove the haze. So while the paint will look glossy and to the untrained eye, look flawless, it is easy to spot an amateur wet sanding job when put up against a job done properly. Therefore wet sanding is the LAST resort and should only be done by someone qualified with years of experience.

Secondly, we need more details as to exactly what you have done so far to the paint. We need to know about your level of knowledge with a rotary polisher and finally what products do you have at your disposal.... We need to know the year and make of the car. Is it BC/CC or SS paint? All of these things must be considered. Then we can make the appropriate suggestion based on that information.

Finally, UC should not be used with a rotary. So while it may work to a certain degree, you will get better results using a product that was designed for rotary use. Moreover, the swirling you may be seeing may be in fact be caused by using a rotary with a cutting pad and not enough lubrication in a non-rotary compound and/or from too aggressive polishing as paint hardness must be considered as well. There are many different wool pads with specific purposes and cut rates; they are not universal. Again, we need to use the right products....

Please take a look at the reviews link in my signature as I have write-ups on using M105, D151 and others which may work perfectly for you. Also look at Fixing a Detailing Nightmare as I have often had to repair the damage done to peoples' vehicles caused by inexperience and/or poor and incorrect advice!

Please post back the info so we can help you the correct way!

Tim

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

I tried buffing a black car with ultracut compound

First off, can you please clarify that you were using M105 Ultra Cut Compound and not Ultimate Compound from the consumer line? As Tim points out, Ultimate Compound is not a rotary recommended product, but if you're using M105 then that's fine.

We would also like to caution you against wet sanding to remove cobweb swirls - that is an extremely aggressive approach for a situation that should not require it. Without proper knowledge of the process, wet sanding can bite you very quickly, especially when working on factory paint as there simply isn't much film build to work with. And frankly, if you're struggling to remove cobwebs then pulling out sanding marks could pose an even greater challenge.

Can you give us more specific information on a few things:

• The pad you're using? "Typical wool pad" doesn't really tell us anything as there is a wide variety of wool pads on the market, just as there are foam pads.
• How old is the paint on this vehicle? Do you know anything about the history of this paint - previous rotary buffing, wet sanding, etc.?
• Make, model & year of vehicle may give us an indication as to hardness of paint.
• Any chance the white car you mentioned was an older single stage white? SS white paint is among the hardest type of paint you'll ever encounter due to the titanium dioxide pigment used.

All of the above assumes that you're dealing with hard paint, but it may well be that you're actually dealing with fairly delicate paint. If so, the foam pad/M105 combo you used would easily knock down the oxidation but may well severely mar the paint in the process. We've seen this plenty of times, and a more gentle approach actually removes the defects while leaving a high clarity finish. It could be that, as Tim mentions, you're inflicting this marring yourself.

[lightkep23]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

I am using the 105 Ultra Cut. I don't know how else to describe the wool pad. Its not a Meguiars product. I can remove sanding haze with it though.

I am a new detailer and am starting to experiment with paint correction. The customers car was a 2005 White Toyota Tundra. I also am not having luck with a newer Black Nissan Frontier. I am sure that these both have a clear coat on them.


After about five passes with the ultra cut and then polish I could see a reduction in the cobweb but no complete removal.

Thanks for the replies so far.
Any chance you could give me a quick run down on the process to remove cobweb. I have read many post about cobwebs but with no clear process to remove them.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

I am using the 105 Ultra Cut. I don't know how else to describe the wool pad. Its not a Meguiars product. I can remove sanding haze with it though.

I am a new detailer and am starting to experiment with paint correction. The customers car was a 2005 White Toyota Tundra. I also am not having luck with a newer Black Nissan Frontier. I am sure that these both have a clear coat on them.


After about five passes with the ultra cut and then polish I could see a reduction in the cobweb but no complete removal.

Thanks for the replies so far.
Any chance you could give me a quick run down on the process to remove cobweb. I have read many post about cobwebs but with no clear process to remove them.

Morning,

Firstly, check out this thread where I had to fix the damage created by someone at a local detail shop who thought they knew what they were doing....

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11800

Well...to start off, it would be best to use products that we know will produce the results.

I wish you could post a photo as I would like to see the severity of the damage. Regardless, I seriously doubt you need a wool pad, whether a mild cut or an aggressive cut.

Because you are using a wool pad with an unknown cut value, you may be in fact instilling the haze into the paint yourself. I would suggest that you use a foam W-8207 Polishing Pad and with your rotary set to 1300 RPM, work the M105 in a 18"x18" area. Work the product until the lubricating oils in the M105 start to dry up, then stop! Do not dry buff!!! Wipe the area with a quality mf towel and inspect. If the majority of the deeper marring is gone, then we switch to the next step.

Now take the M205 Ultra Finishing Polish and a clean W-8207 Polishing pad (never cross contaminate products on the same pad unless it as been washed first), set the rotary to 1300 RPM and work the same area as above. Inspect. If the finish looks really good or has some micro marring, you may need to do one more step: M205 with the W-9207 Finishing Pad with the rotary set to 1000 rpm.

Essentially what we are doing above is a test spot to see how we can solve the marring on that particular paint. Once you have the right procedures and products dialed in for that test spot, just duplicate that entire process for the entire car.

Finally, it would be a good investment to purchase a Meguiar's G110 Dual Action Polisher. The DA's action will help to remove any mild holograms you may have instilled into the paint by the rotary. There are a few Pros that can pull off a total rotary buff out without holograms etc but NOT very many. So instead of the rotary and the W-9207 finishing pad, use the DA and the pad with the M205.

It will take some time to learn what works on what and how it works as this will only come from experience. Moreover, you should not be using just any old wool pad as some have a very aggressive cut and could be causing your problem right there... When using the right products the right way, you can obtain an amazing paint finish!


Here are a few shots of my one truck and then the hood of my other truck.















My other truck's hood....





I hope this helps!

Tim

[lightkep23]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Thanks for the help. I am going to try it without the wool pad.
I clicked on the link with the red truck. Its encouraging to see those type of results with using a foam cutting pad.

Would you say for the most part that I just be able to get out most cobwebbing and light scratches with foam cutting pads and not wool pads?

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Thanks for the help. I am going to try it without the wool pad.
I clicked on the link with the red truck. Its encouraging to see those type of results with using a foam cutting pad.

Would you say for the most part that I just be able to get out most cobwebbing and light scratches with foam cutting pads and not wool pads?

In most cases...yes, a foam cutting pad with the right compounds and the right speed on the rotary can do amazing things.

Do a test spot as I outlined above with those pads and products and I have a feeling you are going to get terrific results!

Tim

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Do I need a wool pad to remove cobweb?

Start with very small working areas, focusing on technique, and proper amounts of product on the pad. Those concepts are VERY important for defect removal. Often times people tend to simply try to cover to large of an area too quickly, and end up not doing much more than spread the product around.