Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

[Mary S]

I was just curious, I know that swirls are generally pretty shallow. Would wax be thick enough to "take the hit" from the forces that cause swirls, or are swirls generally deeper than the coat of wax.

I guess I should ask that same question of sealants as well. They are more of a mystery to me, though, about how they work.

But the idea of both is to product the paint, so do they provide any physical barrier to the forces that make superfine scratches in the paint?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

Waxes and sealants form a very thin sacrificial layer that provides varying degrees of gloss and UV protection. They are there more to protect the beauty you've created with the washing/paint cleaning/polishing steps rather than act as a barricade against truly nasty attacks.

Anything that can damage the paint through physical contact (bird dropping etching, chemical etching, towel marks, etc) is not going to be stopped by a coat or 2 of wax or sealant. To assume that something you pour out of a bottle and leave behind in a several micron thick layer can ward off this type of damage is to assume that same hand applied layer is actually stronger than the paint itself. It isn't. Now, it may well buy you some time against those bird droppings, water spots and other similar attacks, but it won't buy you a lot of time. And how much time it buys you will be dependent on how recently you waxed, too. Remember, that coat of wax you so loving applied yesterday doesn't just disappear 4 months later overnight. It slowly degrades over time, varying with exposure of course.

[Mary S]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

Good morning, Michael! So this is from the study of the swirls left by a professional car wash (I think it is fabric): smooth, with many very fine markings virtually parallel and uniform - less than .0003mm and trusty Google calculator says .0003 millimeters = 0.3 microns.

The reason I ask is because I was "talking" to a guy who owns a professional car wash that offers professional detailing, he being the detailer. He said he has some people coming in every day because they are paranoid about getting swirls, and so he recommends they get a car wax to protect them. I had never thought about wax protecting against the swirls you would get in a car wash. It kind of sounds like if you did keep the car waxing up, it might protect against car wash swirls, at least partially?

And I asked him just out of curiosity if he did swirl removal as part of his detailing service. He answered in a very professional way. He said he includes in his quote whatever it takes for him to feel good about somebody telling a friend that he detailed their car, so yes, he would do the buffing if it was needed.

[Tuck91]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

You can swirl a freshly waxed surface very easily, some cars swirl and scratch easier than others.

If I dip a sponge in a bucket of sand and start rubbing it against the paint, theres a good chance it will be fairly marred. Even if it was clayed and waxed.

[tcope1]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

Could wax prevent some swirls? I'd say anything is possible. But that is not what it's intended to do, it's not why it's done and I don't think anyone here (with much greater knowledge then me) is going to say it's going to prevent enough to make much of a difference. IMHO most swirls are added by humans... usually from washing the vehicle. Certainly this is going to push dust/dirt through the extremely thin layer of soft wax and onto the paint.

If someone where going to pay me to apply wax to their vehicle several times a week, I'd certainly do it. I'd not lead them to think this would eliminate swirls. I'd probably let them know the way I wash their vehicle _greatly_ reduced the chance of swirling, offer to explain the wash process and also let them know that paint is eventually going to get swirl marks.

[Mary S]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

I was just looking at some swirls I have on things around my house, especially say polished metal, and I would have to say some of it is caused by the fact you wash it incorrectly, and whatever grit that is on it gets rubbed around and scratches the surface. And the other part is not washing it enough, just because a surface that has grit on it is just going to have a greater chance that the forces of entropy or whatever is in the house will cause that grit to scratch the surface.

So like if the hood of your car is dirty because you haven't washed it lately, and you lay a bag of groceries on your hood (which hopefully we know not to do but some people may not know any better) well it will likely cause scratches with the friction of moving it a bit when you pick it up.

So little random scratches on plastic, polished metal, etc. they are caused by not washing enough and washing incorrectly.

So if you have a 2-micron layer of wax on the car, using Mr. Stoop's example, most scratches will be deeper than that, and there will be no protection. I was just wondering if it would protect from a process that might cause 0.3 micron scratches if you washed a filthy car 52 times in a professional car wash, as in the test the people in Austin did.

This thread is useless without a link. (Goes find link) Okay here it is. http://www.autobell.com/comparison.htm

It looked like that study did prove the professional wash caused swirls, just that uninformed do-it-yourself car washers caused scratches that were worse.

Anyway, just wondered what kind of physical protective barrier wax could provide. I guess it won't matter, because I will be waxing my car anyway.

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

Wax will stop your vehicle from getting swirls/scratches about the same amount that sunsceeen will stop your skin from getting scratched. It won't.

That being said waxing can help keep your vehicle cleaner between washes and aid in removing contaminants in a less aggressive manner while washing. We've all seen water beading off of a freshly waxed vehicle taking a lot of the dirt/dust along with it.

p.s. I question the motive & logic of the car wash operator. My 3M film was even scratched/swirled in an automatic wash.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

As Nick said, some cars are much more scratch sensitive than others. I used to have a '99 Miata that was like a trained dog - if you just said "scratch", it was. That paint was a real bugger to keep defect free, and I only drove the thing 2500 miles a year! The rest of time it sat in the garage. My daily driver is wonderfully scratch resistance, as this thread would indicate. In fact, that thread is now 2 years old and that car has still not needed much of anything with regard to paint correction. It has seen a very light once over with M205 since that time, but it has been waxed regularly and wiped down with UQD or M135 and a couple of microfibers at least 3x a week since then. That's well over 300 instances of a basic mist & wipe process to remove light dust. And honestly, the paint still looks like that and the car is now almost 6 1/2 years old. Anyone who's been to a Thursday Night Open Garage and seen the car can attest to it.

So when studies like this come along....

This thread is useless without a link. (Goes find link) Okay here it is. http://www.autobell.com/comparison.htm

It looked like that study did prove the professional wash caused swirls, just that uninformed do-it-yourself car washers caused scratches that were worse.

.... it's always good for a chuckle or two. Reading how the four test subjects washed their cars didn't really require much of a study to show it would cause scratching and other marring to the paint. That's pretty much a given from the descriptions of the wash processes. And no wax on earth is going to protect against the damage they inflicted, just as the lack of swirls in the paint on my car in the above referenced thread isn't because of the wax used - it's down to the careful washing and maintaining of the finish, and the paint itself.

[Mary S]

Re: Would a coat or two of wax protect against swirls?

As Nick said, some cars are much more scratch sensitive than others. I used to have a '99 Miata that was like a trained dog - if you just said "scratch", it was. That paint was a real bugger to keep defect free, and I only drove the thing 2500 miles a year! The rest of time it sat in the garage. My daily driver is wonderfully scratch resistance, as this thread would indicate. In fact, that thread is now 2 years old and that car has still not needed much of anything with regard to paint correction. It has seen a very light once over with M205 since that time, but it has been waxed regularly and wiped down with UQD or M135 and a couple of microfibers at least 3x a week since then. That's well over 300 instances of a basic mist & wipe process to remove light dust. And honestly, the paint still looks like that and the car is now almost 6 1/2 years old. Anyone who's been to a Thursday Night Open Garage and seen the car can attest to it.

So when studies like this come along....


.... it's always good for a chuckle or two. Reading how the four test subjects washed their cars didn't really require much of a study to show it would cause scratching and other marring to the paint. That's pretty much a given from the descriptions of the wash processes. And no wax on earth is going to protect against the damage they inflicted, just as the lack of swirls in the paint on my car in the above referenced thread isn't because of the wax used - it's down to the careful washing and maintaining of the finish, and the paint itself.

Your car does look awesome, Michael. It looks better than new.

The other thing about that study is the grime and gunk and road salts they put on the car before doing each washing. They are basically picking a method where using an automatic wash with all its power washers and so forth may be the better choice of wash than doing it by hand with only hose pressure. If you washed it by hand you would have to pretreat it somehow to get off all that sand and grit and grime before you started dragging your mitt over it, or you would scratch it. I guess if I had to I would spray it down with body solvent first then rinse it, maybe even put ONR in my soap bucket with the soap (I don't know if you can do that) for extra lubrication of the wash water.

And a lot of people who use automatic washes only use them a few times a year so that isn't an unreasonable test for them. The people who hand wash their car probably do it every couple of weeks or so and it never gets that dirty.