Pad Troubles

[BS MXRacer]

Has anyone else experienced issues with the soft buff 2.0 pads. I'm just starting out and recently had a pad with about a detail and a half self destruct during one of my "cleaning on the fly" steps.
Here it is:

[smack]

Re: Pad Troubles

Man! That didnt damage the paint did it? I cant comment on the destruction as my 2.0 pads havent arrived yet. Were you running the machine on speed 6 for a while?

[agp56]

Re: Pad Troubles

My soft buff 2.0 pad have been flawless to this point. One of the 8207's and two of the 9207's have been through the washing machine twice.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Pad Troubles

Had the 2.0 pads since they first came out. Never had a problem with them. Washed and dried them numerous times.

That is very strange.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad Troubles

Well now, that's a new one on us, and we do apologize for the experience.

What we usually see with pad failures is the tell tale sign of extremely aggressive use wherein the foam starts to break down around the edge of the hook & loop backing, almost as if it's getting cut. That tells us that the user is applying a lot of pressure, likely running at speed 6 (which generates a ton of heat at the hook & loop interface), and probably using a backing plate other than the W68DA. We've seen the exact same issue with other companies pads in discussions on other forums.

But this one, where the pad almost looks as though it broke like a cookie - wow. Can you give us a bit more detail as to how you were using it? How old is the pad? How exactly were you cleaning it?

Also, give a call to our Customer Care Center at 800347.5700 and tell them you've posted this to the forum. They'll take care of you on this, but we'd still like to know the answers to the above questions.

[BS MXRacer]

Re: Pad Troubles

I was running the PC on speed 6 and applying medium to heavy pressure, This occurred during a clean of the fly. I was applying plenty of pressure so the pad wouldn't rotate the terry towel out from under it, I was not holding the towel though but had it resting on the ground. My backing plate is the W64DA and the pad was brand new, I'd only used it once before. Luckily no damage was done to the vehicle and I was able to continue with a different pad.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad Troubles

I was running the PC on speed 6 and applying medium to heavy pressure, This occurred during a clean of the fly. I was applying plenty of pressure so the pad wouldn't rotate the terry towel out from under it, I was not holding the towel though but had it resting on the ground. My backing plate is the W64DA and the pad was brand new, I'd only used it once before. Luckily no damage was done to the vehicle and I was able to continue with a different pad.

Which is pretty much exactly what we described and thought happened.

Here's the thing - it's been stated dozens (maybe hundreds) of times on MOL that we do not recommend using the W7xxx cutting pads with a D/A, and we don't recommend using speed 6 on the D/A. Precisely because what happened here is what happens when you do use that pad and/or that speed. Any hazing of the paint that may occur with this pad on a D/A is pretty minor, really, and can be cleaned up quickly with a W8xxx pad and a mild paint cleaner.

But the real issue is that the hook and loop attachment system comes under tremendous stress when a D/A is run at speed 6. If you've ever turned one of these tools on at max speed without having the pad firmly on the paint and had the pad fly off, you know that the tool is always trying to throw the pad. That's because of the "random orbital" action of a D/A - it's constantly changing direction and the pad is hanging on for dear life in the process. At speed 6 this means the hook & loop mechanism is being pulled on with surprising force, and a lot of heat is being generated. We've measure temperatures in excess of 200F at the backing plate/back of the pad when doing this. And that is just something these pads are not designed for. Nobody's pads are, really, as you can find threads of pad failures from other companies when they're used like this.

Now, when you add the extra drag created by the aggressive foam of a cutting pad, the forces are just magnified and the heat can really spike up. So now that pad is really hot (not the part that touches the paint, mind you, but on the back side) and then you're cutting into it with a backing plate that is not the optimum choice for this pad - and you're using a lot of pressure - and something is likely to go wrong. Not always, but there is a high probability of it. And the difference in heat generated between speeds 5 and 6 (with prolonged use, of course) is significant.

So, what to do at this point? Well, let's call this one "lesson learned". Don't use a W7xxx cutting pad on the D/A in the future, and don't run it at speed 6 either. Shoot me a PM with your full name and address and we'll replace the pad for you this time, but please use this as a learning experience. And if anyone ever asks you in the future about running the tool like this, or with this pad, remind them please that Meguiar's cautions against this type of use, for this exact reason.

[BS MXRacer]

Re: Pad Troubles

Thanks Mike for setting me straight on the proper time and application of using a cutting pad. As it was a misuse of the pad and not a defect I don't believe it is fair to have meguiars replace the pad, I'll just have to consider it my lose which I'm ok with. The fact that you were willing to replace it says much to the customer support at meguiars and makes me glad to be a meguiars user. Hope this can be used as an example as to why neither the cutting pads or speed 6 shouldn't be used. I will definitely pass along the proper time to use the W7xxx pads to anyone asking and retire mine until I feel confortable enough to pick a rotary and begin learning its use.
Thanks again!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad Troubles

Fair enough then, and we appreciate you being so honest and up front. Everyone has to start somewhere and we all learn as we go, often making mistakes along the way. Mistakes can be great learning experiences though, and we're glad to see you having such a great attitude about this.

[BS MXRacer]

Re: Pad Troubles

Michael, in one of your earlier posts you mentioned the W68DA backing plate and my reply does have a typo in it (W64DA rather than W68DA). Is the W68DA backing plate not the one recommended by Meguiar's to be used with the Wx207 pads? Also, I hear a lot of talk about 3" pads and was going to pick some up for those small, tight areas but was only able to find 4" Meguiar's pads like these http://www.autodetailingsolutions.ne...pad-w8204.html at ADS, are these the same pads everyone is talking about? Will this backing plate work with the 4" pads in the above link http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/325.html or would you recommend a different one?
Thanks,
Broc

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad Troubles

Yes, the W68DA is the recommended pad for the Soft Buff 2.0 pads. That takes away the aspect of the backing plate cutting into the back of the pad but, and this is the really important aspect of what happened - the speed and pressure built up a ton of heat and that's what ultimately caused the failure.

As for the small pads, yes the link you gave is to the right pads and the backing plate you linked to will work fine with them. In fact, they even show it on our tool!

A word of caution with small pads - on a D/A you are concentrating all the energy into a much smaller area and you can begin to put a lot of heat into the paint. Not on the interface of pad to backing plate like you did with the 7" and all that pressure and speed, but on the face of the pad and on the paint - and that's where the issue is. This can reach critical mass when working on painted urethane bumper covers since the underlying substrate does not dissipate heat like steel does. Add to that the flex agent added to the paint on these panels and you can run into trouble before you know it - especially if you run at high speed and with a lot of pressure. Take some time to ease into it here. Stop regularly and feel the paint; if it's getting hot stop buffing there and move to another area until it cools down.

These smaller pads are incredibly efficient and convenient for working in smaller areas. Just be aware of the different dynamic going on, take your time, pay attention, and you'll be fine.