Damage caused by UV radiaition

[TOGWT]

Ultra violet Radiation is known to contribute to the chemical modification of exposed paint surfaces resulting in loss of gloss, colour change, chalking, flaking and eventually destruction of the clear coat paint film by oxidation. Ultra violet protection is a sacrificial / renewable component; this is due to the UV protection layer (stabilizers) being degraded by exposure to the elements (sun, sand, road or sea salt, and etc) it is also water miscible, so it is imperative that you renew it and needs to be re-applied on a regular basis (dependent upon location climatic condition)

There is no such thing as a permanent UV stabilizer, it a matter of physics, not chemistry. Ultra violet protection is a sacrificial and necessarily renewable protection. Acrylic polymers and polyurethane polymer are slow to absorb UV light and accordingly somewhat resistant to photo degradation.

Many natural and synthetic materials are attacked by ultra-violet radiation and products made using these materials may crack or disintegrate. This problem is known as ultra violet degradation, and is a common problem in products exposed to sunlight.

1. UV-A radiation dries out the binder system causing structural failure; it will dry the resin in paint; leading to oxidation. A paint surface will often show cracking as the resin binder dries out the paint draws up on itself forming ‘crow’s feet’. It will also dry out the oils and plasticizers in vinyl and other materials and may lead to structural damage (this is especially relevant to open top convertibles)

2. UV-B radiation exposure leads to gloss and colour instability (photosynthesis or photo-oxidation) and surface fading stains. But before UV light can cause harm, it must first be absorbed. If it is not turned into heat or transferred to a nearby stabilizer molecule called a quencher, it breaks weak chemical bonds. This is the beginning of UV damage. Some materials absorb UV radiation more readily than other materials. Materials that readily absorb (UV-B) radiation are quickly damaged...rubber, vinyls, gel coat fibreglass, and many other plastics.

When radiation is absorbed, it starts to break (cleave) weak chemical bonds, which leads to photochemical degradation (bleaching, (fading), discoloration, chalking, brittleness and cracking) all indications of UV deterioration. The bond cleavages resulting from UV absorption cause the formation of “radicals.” Each free radical can trigger a chain of reactions (in the presence of air), leading to more bond cleavages and destruction. These oxidising chain reactions require no further UV exposure, just the presence of air

The clear coat provides gloss plus physical protection from the elements, including ultraviolet (UV) radiation, which is in the upper 1.0 – 1. 25µ layer of the clear coat paint.. Removing more that 12.5µ (0.5 mil) of clear coat will precipitate premature paint film failure as the ultra violet (UV) protection percolates to the top of the clear coat, there is ultra violet (UV) protection all the way through the paint, but the majority of it migrates to the top of the clear coat along with the thinner solvents and particles.

Therefore removing clear coat ultra violet protection is not a linear process; by removing a small percentage of the clear coat paint tends to remove a larger percentage of UV inhibitors. So once you remove too much clear coat you'll have no paint UV protection other than what you apply with a LSP

[greg0303]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

Very nice article, Jon.

Nicely explained.

[TOGWT]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

Paint Surface Protection

• The clear coat, provides gloss plus physical protection from the elements, including ultraviolet (UV) radiation, which is in the upper 1.0 – 1. 25µ layer of the clear coat paint.. Removing more that 12.5µ (0.5 mil) of clear coat will precipitate premature paint film failure as the ultra violet (UV) protection percolates to the top of the clear coat, there is ultra violet (UV) protection all the way through the paint, but the majority of it migrates to the top of the clear coat along with the thinner solvents and particles.
Dependent on reflective value of the paint colour; surface reflection will provide some UV radiation protection along with some sacrificial protection as the wax or polymers oxidize

Therefore removing clear coat ultra violet protection is not a linear process; by removing a small percentage of the clear coat paint tends to remove a larger percentage of UV inhibitors. So once you remove too much clear coat you'll have no paint UV protection other than what you apply with a LSP.

• An organic wax, contrary to popular opinion, or marketing, does not contain natural UV protection; the wax protects the leaves due to its thickness and the fact that it’s opaque. It does however provide a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability)

• Polymer sealants are somewhat resistant to UV-B radiation as they oxidize, they also offer durable protection

• Nanotechnology coatings due to something called the Lotus effect offer resistance to dirt as they do not allow adhesion, they are also scratch resistant.

[Slicky]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

I dig that . I had bird stains go right thru 2 coats of UW and 1 of 1Z wax . Topped the truck with Pinnacle Sig Series 2 now.

Excellant post

[the other pc]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

... The bond cleavages resulting from UV absorption cause the formation of “radicals.” Each free radical can trigger a chain of reactions (in the presence of air), leading to more bond cleavages and destruction. ...

Always been a big fan of Bond cleavage and destruction, especially Sophie Marceau. Oh, and Halle Berry,... and Michelle Yeoh, and of course Diana Rigg, and.....

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

• An organic wax, contrary to popular opinion, or marketing, does not contain natural UV protection; the wax protects the leaves due to its thickness and the fact that it’s opaque. It does however provide a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability)

Care to back this up with any sort of citation?

The characteristics of carnauba wax that you're describing have very little bearing in the real world of carnauba car waxes. Carnauba in it's natural state, as it occurs on the leaves of the plant from which it comes, is not at all the same as the carnauba as it exists in car wax. As you know, a block of all natural carnauba is so hard as to be completely unusable as a car wax. A block of all natural carnauba is just that - a block. Knock it on a table top and it doesn't sound much different than doing the same with a rock. You certainly can't spread it out on your paint like you do with a carnauba car wax, that's for sure. The natural carnauba is refined and blended with a mix of other ingredients, some helping to solublize the carnauba, some acting simply as carrier ingredients, some are polymers that act to bind everything together and increase the durability of the "wax" being applied to the car. Nobody makes a "pure carnauba" wax in the sense of the product being nothing but carnauba. As stated, that would be an unworkable product.

So whether carnauba in and of itself provides an UV protection is really a moot point. A carnauba wax will contain UV screeners provided by other ingredients contained in the total formulation.

As for resistance to acid, bird droppings, etc being better with carnauba than with a polymer, we disagree as well. Carnauba waxes can be fairly easily washed off with even a mild detergent, synthetic polymers not so much. In fact, in our carnauba wax we utilize detergent resistant polymers to help with the longevity of the wax, to prevent it from simply being washed away. In the long run, both carnauba waxes and synthetic, cross linking polymer sealants are sacrificial barriers. Both will buy you some time against all manner of things that can attack your paint, but neither is tougher than the paint itself. Both break down over time, both can be attacked and defeated by bird droppings and acid rain, among other things. But in the overall scheme of things, synthetics will provide better, and longer lasting, protection than carnauba products will. Generally speaking.

But there's something about that look of carnauba on a dark colored car.

[TOGWT]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

An organic wax, contrary to popular opinion, or marketing, does not contain natural UV protection; the wax protects the leaves due to its thickness and the fact that it’s opaque. It does however provide a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability)

Care to back this up with any sort of citation?

What kind of ‘citation’ are you looking for

So whether carnauba in and of itself provides an UV protection is really a moot point. A carnauba wax will contain UV screeners provided by other ingredients contained in the total formulation.

The point I’m making is that Carnauba wax and polymers do not contain a natural UV protection, UV stabilizers are specialist ingredients that offer only temporary protection that must be renewed. Many people believe that Carnauba wax protects the leaves of the Copernicia tree it has an inbuilt UV protection.

As for resistance to acid, bird droppings, etc being better with carnauba than with a polymer, we disagree as well. Carnauba waxes can be fairly easily washed off with even a mild detergent, synthetic polymers not so much. In fact, in our carnauba wax we utilize detergent resistant polymers to help with the longevity of the wax, to prevent it from simply being washed away. In the long run, both carnauba waxes and synthetic, cross linking polymer sealants are sacrificial barriers. Both will buy you some time against all manner of things that can attack your paint, but neither is tougher than the paint itself. Both break down over time, both can be attacked and defeated by bird droppings and acid rain, among other things. But in the overall scheme of things, synthetics will provide better, and longer lasting, protection than carnauba products will. Generally speaking.

I think we are dealing with semantics here. IMO the point of a sacrificial protection is that it should be removed when it’s been subjected to an acid attack and then renewed. Will a synthetic exhibit better durability than a wax, absolutely. The choice of what to use as a sacrificial barrier is just that, a personal choice. I like the asthetics provided by a Carnauba wax and the durability of a polymer, so my choice of sacrificial protection is wax on top of a polymer

[TOGWT]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

Very nice article, Jon.

Nicely explained.

Thank you, always glad to help better understanding

[TOGWT]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

I dig that . I had bird stains go right thru 2 coats of UW and 1 of 1Z wax . Topped the truck with Pinnacle Sig Series 2 now.

Excellant post

Thank you

[TOGWT]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

Always been a big fan of Bond cleavage and destruction, especially Sophie Marceau. Oh, and Halle Berry,... and Michelle Yeoh, and of course Diana Rigg, and.....

Some may lack cleavage (definetly not Halle Berry), but they all more than make up for it in destruction

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

I think we are dealing with semantics here. IMO the point of a sacrificial protection is that it should be removed when it’s been subjected to an acid attack and then renewed. Will a synthetic exhibit better durability than a wax, absolutely. The choice of what to use as a sacrificial barrier is just that, a personal choice. I like the asthetics provided by a Carnauba wax and the durability of a polymer, so my choice of sacrificial protection is wax on top of a polymer

It's more than semantics. Your statements made it look like carnauba will resist bird droppings and other acidic fallout better than polymers will. Now you're back tracking and basically saying they both do the same thing and your choice is a personal one.

Even Slicky read it that way, mentioning that a bird dropping went through two different synthetics so now he's got a carnauba on his car. Seems he now believes, thanks to your post, that he's better protected simply because he's got a carnauba.

Your post spoke about carnauba in it's natural state, which really has no bearing on how a "carnauba wax" performs on paint.

We don't want to say that all your posts are misleading, but you do have this habit of posting what sound like very authoritative responses that, while generally pertaining to the subject at hand, don't really offer any useful advice as to how to correct the issue that started the thread in the first place. You've repeatedly regurgitated quotes from your blog, or book, or whatever it is, and it seems more like your using MOL just to further that cause.

[Slicky]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

I like to read a good discussion on theory . I've read posts where you two have been down this path before.

I have read multiple posts on UV protection from either sealants or waxes and it sounds like it's minimal at best anyway . Manufactures may claim UV protection but can't really prove it . Ultimate Wax makes no UV protection claim at all , that's why I used the 1Z on top of UW ( 1Z claims UV protection ) Then topped with SSII to cover the sealant. Then I read this UV post.

Yep, my first interpretation to what Star Kicker was posting was that carnauba wax offers better protection against bird **** than polymers , while polymers offered better protection against UV rays but now the consensus is polymers offer better protection than carnauba car wax .

Well, I was going to post on exactly what Ultimate Wax did protect against ? because bird **** did go right thru 2 coats of UW and one coat of 1Z and this was only 4 week sealant . I don't remember this happening when I used #26 on my other dark vehicles.

" Seems he now believes, thanks to your post, that he's better protected simply because he's got a carnauba "

Uh oh , multiple layers of polymers and carnauba don't increase the level of protection ? like say over 3 or 4 weeks rather than packed on the same day ? or is carnauba wax over synthetic polymer strictly for aesthetic reasons ?

[CHzo6]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

This is why he's been banned from other sites.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

Slicky, when it comes to "protection" it is important to keep it all in perspective. Both carnaubas and synthetics are sacrificial barriers - they both break down with time but as a general rule synthetics will last longer overall. But asking either one to be a total barrier against bird droppings or anything else that can actually etch paint is asking too much of the product.

Think about it - for any wax or sealant to completely prevent this type of paint damage it would have to be tougher than the paint itself. Meaning one would have to anticipate that something poured out of a bottle and wiped onto the paint, allowed to dry and then wiped off so as to leave behind a layer just a few microns thin is stronger and more durable than a polymer crosslinking, oven cured plasticized paint. And they just aren't, plain and simple. They are sacrificial barriers.

Now consider that not all bird droppings are the same, and the circumstances under which those droppings are deposited differ as well. How long it sat on the paint, how hot the paint and ambient temperatures are during that dwell time, how recently the wax/sealant was applied, etc will all contribute to the level of damage caused by the droppings.

As for UV protection from a wax or sealant, virutally every wax on the market is designed to do this to some extent. Just like virtually interior dressing is designed to protect those surfaces from UV exposure. But the clear coat itself is pretty well loaded with UV screeners (a major reason why we aren't fans of wet sanding factory paint in an attempt to remove orange peel). That doesn't mean you don't want, or can't benefit from, added UV protection.

[greg0303]

Re: Damage caused by UV radiaition

Think about it - for any wax or sealant to completely prevent this type of paint damage it would have to be tougher than the paint itself. Meaning one would have to anticipate that something poured out of a bottle and wiped onto the paint, allowed to dry and then wiped off so as to leave behind a layer just a few microns thin is stronger and more durable than a polymer crosslinking, oven cured plasticized paint. And they just aren't, plain and simple. They are sacrificial barriers.

Great explanation, Mike.

Slicky, keep a bottle of quick detailer and a microfiber towel in your trunk all time. It's very important to remove bird bombs ASAP.