Time-proven product/pad combos

[wetlook]

Hi everyone! After watching the very educational Meguiar's videos, I especially liked the philosophy of using the least aggressive product/pad combo first.

The combo recommendations in the video were (in the order of most aggressive to least aggressive):

#85 Diamond Cut Compound 2.0 / wool pad @ ?rpm (defect removal step; the ultimate and most perilous)
#84 Compound Power Cleaner / W-7000 Cutting Pad @ 1500-2000rpm (defect removal step; for 2000 grit and finer sanding marks)
#83 Dual-Action Cleaner Polish / W-7000 Cutting Pad @ 1500-2000rpm (defect removal step; less aggressive alternative to the above combo)
#83 Dual-Action Cleaner Polish / W-8000 Polishing Pad @ 1200-1600rpm (gloss restoration follow-up to #84/W7000)
#82 Swirl Free Polish / W-8000 Polishing Pad or W-9000 Finishing Pad 1200-1600rpm (gloss restoration follow-up to #83/W8000)

If a pad/product combo wasn't cutting it "fast enough" it suggested to either go through the area again or switch to a more aggressive product and/or pad. The video suggested that we start with the bottom-most combo (#82/W-9000) and work-up from there to determine the appropriate combo for the defect. Then, after the defect has been reduced or minimized, it suggested the follow-ups as listed (going down).

Please, please, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure that there is a finite number of practical combinations out there. I was hoping to find more from you guys.

For instance, #80 Speed Glaze / W-8000 Polishing Pad @ 1200-1600rpm is a favorite but not demonstrated in the videos. I read most people like to start with this one and move up to #83/W-8000 if it doesn't cut it (pun intended ). Some people also use this combo after #83/W-8000 and go straight to wax after!

Any more combos I should add to this ladder?

A final note: I observed in both the Defect Removal and Restoring Gloss segments, the downward pressure was enough to "warp" (for lack of a better adjective) the pad's edge so that it no longer remained vertically straight. Like this:
______
/______\

instead of
_______
|_______|

(I hope you get the picture even if this doesn't come out right)

During defect removal, the top of the backing plate was buried and about the same level as the top outer edge of the cutting pad. The pressure used during the Restoring Gloss segment was obviously less than the defect removal / swirl removal step because the top of the backing plate was above the top outer edge of the pad.

When the technician went over it a second time, the voice-over suggested using light pressure - just a little more than the weight of the buffer alone. This is great stuff!

I have to apologize for the longish post. I'm quite eager to learn.

[tripper_11]

Re: Time-proven product/pad combos

Originally posted by wetlook
Any more combos I should add to this ladder?

Hello wetlook,

There is a thread started by Mike, regarding pad and product combo for both the rotary and PC or G-100.

I haven't bookmarked the link but try a search and you will find it.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi wetlook,

I think you did a great job of summing up the video.

As you become more experienced, you'll find a combination that works best for you and that you like best. You'll also learn to temper the advise of "using the least aggressive product to get the job done, with experience.

That is to say, a painter that's been painting and the wet-sanding and buffing out his paint jobs for years doesn't start with M82 with a W-9006 pad on the dual action polisher to try to remove his sanding marks, in an effort to "use the least aggressive product to get the job done, but instead has learned through experience that he needs to start out with a compound and a cutting pad first. In this case he may use the M84/W-7006 combo on the rotary as this is less aggressive than M85/Wool pad as the wool pad by itself is a pretty aggressive cutter.

Afterwards he will move forward through the system using the least aggressive product to remove any haze left by the heavy compounding process to restore clarity and gloss. For some this may be M83, M80 or M82, depends on the painter and his paint system.

If your primary goal is to detail cars, (not wet-sand, cut and buff fresh paint), then a safe combination to go with that will work on 90% of all cars that are brought to you is to either two-step it, or one-step it.

Two Step
This uses a dedicated cleaning and polishing step before applying wax. For this, use the M80 Speed Glaze and then go straight to wax.

One Step
This is the purpose of a cleaner/wax, or this use a product like the M66 Quick Detailer. This product will clean, polish and leave behind a protective coating in one step.

Detailing professionally is about doing your best work, satisfying the customer and making a profit. The G100, M80 Speed Glaze and your choice of a wax, (perhaps the new M21 Synthetic Sealant), will accomplish these three things. It's simple, it's as fast as anything on the market, and above all... it's consistent. Plus... the M80 is easy to work with in almost every situation, (paint type, temperature, and humidity).

M80 is not going to remove the all of the swirls and scratches, deep swirls and scratches will remain behind. The thing to remember however is if your detailing cars for profit, what are you selling your customer? A swirl free, flawless show car finish? If so, then you'll need to use something more aggressive first like the M83, or the M84, possible a rotary buffer. You will also have to learn how to charge for this. The more steps you perform, the longer it will take you to do the job and the more you will have to charge to maintain whatever your goal for profit is.

That's why I say, if your goal is to do your best work, satisfying the customer and making a profit, then you need to decide who your customers are going to be, people with daily drivers that want them to look clean and shiny, or serious enthusiasts who want a flawless, show car finish.

You can do both, but with the latter you will usually have to spend some time educating them on what you're going to do, (what is involved to remove deep swirls and scratches), so that they will understand why you are going to charge them more than the guy down the road who details cars for less money. (He doesn't try to create the show car finish, he just makes the vehicle look clean and shiny).

In my detailing day, I only detailed special interest car, no daily drivers, so did multiple-step buff-outs always using the rotary buffer to remove all the defects and then move forward through the process. I also charged for it and I found that in order to charge the higher prices, I often had to educate my customers so they would understand the process and what is involved.


So if you goal is to detail cars for profit, decide who your customer is, and this will help you to choose the combination of products you want to use and also what to sell your customer. You always want to under promise and over deliver, never the other way around. If you always do stellar work, your reputation will precede you'll get the best form of advertising, which is word-of-mouth advertising.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

If we're lucky, we might see DETLMAN or SuperiorShine, chime in with their favorite combos for detailing cars. I think these guys have a combined hands-on experience of around 40 years of detailing cars for profit.

Mike

[wetlook]

Thanks for the in-depth response, Mike. I see what you mean by tempering that advice.

The two-step sounds good - the #80 seems to be the least agressive of the newer cleaner/polishes (at least that's what I gather from the videos. I noticed that #80 is placed to the right of #82 Swirl Free Polish).

I'll reserve multi-step buff-outs for serious enthusiasts who will appreciate a flawless finish and the tools & know-how required to achieve it.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Just to add...

Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze is more aggressive than either #9 Swirl Remover or #82 Swirl Free Polish. Meguiar's #80 has become the product I usually reach for first!


Tim

[Boss_429]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Hi wetlook,

As you become more experienced, you'll find a combination that works best for you and that you like best. You'll also learn to temper the advise of "using the least aggressive product to get the job done, with experience.

Mike

wetlook,

Mike gave you a ton of great advice. However, the above statement is especially noteworthy. As you gain experience, you will get the feel for the correct pad/product combination to get the job done more efficiently simply by evaluating the paint surface. You won't need to do as much "guessing". Of course, until that time, you need to work your way up to the correct pad/product pad combination and there will always be a few paint jobs that will "surprise" you.

As for the best combinations, that can vary greatly depending on the paint and it's condition. There are a lot of great combo's and the ones mentioned in this thread are certainly some of them.

Good luck, and approach it with process and technique in mind as well as product combination and you will see great results.

[wetlook]

Thanks for pointing that out 2hotford! I guess the video confused me there.

In the cleaner/polish line-up, the #85 was at the leftmost (most agressive) followed by #84, #83, #82, then #80 as the voice-over was talking about moving down the agressiveness scale.

Boss_429, thanks for the reinforcement.

[scrub]

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