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**FX4619** · Mar 20, 2012, 07:54 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

[QUOTE]

Hey all,

I'm a noob to detailing and have a few questions about some products that I was recommended to use. I have a 2007 Acura TL type-S. I purchased the car used and to my knowledge and from looking over the car thoroughly, it does not appear to have ever been detailed or at least detailed properly. I have posted some pictures at the bottom of this thread. You can see the swirling and scratches. Anyways, I intend on doing the works here in the next month or so. My intent is to wash -->IronX --> ---Clay Bar ---> M105 ---> M205 --->Remove with 50/50 rubbing alcohol/water ---> Finish off with Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant.

I intent on picking up one of two orbital polishers below. Either the Porter cable 7424XP or the Griots Garage 6 inch random orbital polisher. I will be getting 5-6 pads along with the them too.

[QUOTE]

Looks like you have the right idea. Is there any reason why you chose to use the professional line products such as M105 and 205? The reason I ask is because M105 is pretty aggressive stuff. I have also heard that it is a bit tougher to use with an DA, especially if you're new at this. I would recommend using Ultimate compound before jumping to M105. With the right pad, technique, and a little patience you will have great results with UC. I am still learning how to use these products as well. You won't need 50/50 mix of alcohol and water to get the UC off, UC comes off while it is still wet, do not let it dry. In fact UC, UP, and UW or NXT 2.0 come off real easy with a microfiber towel. I am not familiar with Blackfire Wet Diamond sealant. I have used NXT 2.0 and have had excellent results. Since you have a black car I've heard that Ultimate Wax is really good on dark vehicles. I still have a full bottle of the NXT so I will try the UW next.

As for the DA, I would choose the Griot's polisher. This DA has great reviews and has a lifetime warranty. I would also order it straight from Griots because their customer service is great, also you will be in their system if you ever need warranty service. I have the Meg's 110v2 and couldn't be happier. For pads I would use Meguiars. Meguiars makes it easy with only a few pads to do the job. Other brands have so many pads for each stage and it confuses me to be honest. With Meg's you have a polishing pad for medium cutting, a finishing pad for wax and polish, and a cutting pad for maximum cutting ability, thats it, 3 pads for any type of work you need to do. Meg's also has a 3" plate for the 4" pads which is good for tight areas and more cutting ability with the cutting pads.

It sounds like you know what you want and know how to achieve it. Although I'm not sure what alcohol and water does to remove product. Good luck with your detailing and post some pics of the finished product when you get a chance.

**andytsang** · Mar 20, 2012, 08:16 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

I've read in other forum some are using 50/50 alcohol/water to clean up after polish and before wax. I haven't read this kind of practice in this forum. I wonder the alcohol would remove the oil and make the polishing completely useless.

**FX4619** · Mar 20, 2012, 08:59 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

Originally posted by andytsang View Post

I've read in other forum some are using 50/50 alcohol/water to clean up after polish and before wax. I haven't read this kind of practice in this forum. I wonder the alcohol would remove the oil and make the polishing completely useless.

I think the alcohol would strip the polish. Which doesn't make sense because the paint needs all the oils. As for compound I don't see the need for alcohol either. The compound should be removed while still wet which makes it pretty simple to remove. If the compound dried and it was hard to remove I would just use some UQD or UQW at the most.

**Murr1525** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:00 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

You can see the swirling and scratches. Anyways, I intend on doing the works here in the next month or so. My intent is to wash -->IronX --> ---Clay Bar ---> M105 ---> M205 --->Remove with 50/50 rubbing alcohol/water ---> Finish off with Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant.

I would agree with the above, and recommend UC for use with the DA.

Looking forward to trying IronX and TarX myself.

I intent on picking up one of two orbital polishers below. Either the Porter cable 7424XP or the Griots Garage 6 inch random orbital polisher. I will be getting 5-6 pads along with the them too.

Both are popular. Some places sell pads as a case of 6. Can look at 4 polishing, 2 finishing. Or 3 Polishing, 2 Finishing, 1 Cutting + MF bonnets if you plan to remove wax by machine.

After doing some reading through the FAQ's and the stickies, I see that there are many variables to take into account when trying to judge what degree of cutting power will be administered dependent upon paint hardness/softness, polisher speed, pad type, pressure, and obviously the product that you are using.

Yeah. But should have most variables covered. If your paint was oddly hard, or oddly soft, it can change things a bit, but cant really start off planning for that.

**Poki** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:05 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

When you get it all dialed in and polished to your satisfaction....get some Meg's Synthetic X-Press Spray Wax to maintane it. This will make your dark color even darker and look WET! Soooo easy to use too.

**Murr1525** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:05 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

Originally posted by FX4619 View Post

I think the alcohol would strip the polish. Which doesn't make sense because the paint needs all the oils. As for compound I don't see the need for alcohol either. The compound should be removed while still wet which makes it pretty simple to remove. If the compound dried and it was hard to remove I would just use some UQD or UQW at the most.

You can have 2 situations here:

1. Certain brands want absolutely no residue left behind on the paint before applying their waxes/sealants. Since Meguiars encourages polishing oils, and this is a Meguiars site, it is not seen as much here.

2. Oils left behind by a product can fill in swirls, so you may feel you have removed swirls, and then they come back after a few washes. So a 50/50 mix can be applied to check that your process is indeed removing the swirls. This could be done at first, and only check your first panel, and if your process worked, just repeat everywhere else. Other people do like to check every panel.

So those are the two most common situations.

**FX4619** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:29 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

Originally posted by Murr1525 View Post

You can have 2 situations here:

1. Certain brands want absolutely no residue left behind on the paint before applying their waxes/sealants. Since Meguiars encourages polishing oils, and this is a Meguiars site, it is not seen as much here.

2. Oils left behind by a product can fill in swirls, so you may feel you have removed swirls, and then they come back after a few washes. So a 50/50 mix can be applied to check that your process is indeed removing the swirls. This could be done at first, and only check your first panel, and if your process worked, just repeat everywhere else. Other people do like to check every panel.

So those are the two most common situations.

Yeah but wouldn't you want to do that after the compound stage? I can see using the alcohol mixture after the compound stage to see if there was any correction. The process the OP is using suggests removing the polish with alcohol and water. The OP wants to use M205 which has less polishing oils than UP, which means the defects will be more noticeable even without using alcohol to remove. I just want to make sure the alcohol doesn't do more damage than good and create more work in the end for the OP. I am also just trying to learn because I am new with these products as well using a DA.

**JJH** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:49 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

So you are suggestion using Ultimate Compound instead of the M105?

**Michael Stoops** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:50 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

From what we see here, we think M105 is going to be overkill on these defects, especially given what we've seen with regard to how well Acura paint tends to respond to correction. Ultimate Compound followed by M205 will likely be more than sufficient to get the job done. Yes, there are some deeper marks, but if the majority of the car doesn't need to be hit with our most aggressive compound, you really are better off just going at the nastier bits a couple of extra times rather than going overboard on 99% of the car just to address a few spots. We'd also rather see you take your time and develop your technique instead of just grabbing the most potent stuff you can find in hopes of it just overcoming your newness to the process. That is almost never the best method for either correcting defects or learning how to do this process correctly.

As for the buffer, there's no doubt the Griot's tool has more power and torque than the PC7424XP, but our G110v2 does too and of course that would be our recommendation (well, d'uh!). All three can use the same backing plates and therefore the same pads, whatever you choose to go with.

**Murr1525** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:55 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

My answer was more in general, not so much to the OP.

I am not familiar with Blackfire, it could be a brand that says to remove residue before waxing. If that is the case, then you would do it right before waxing.

**JJH** · Mar 20, 2012, 09:57 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

Thanks for all of the help above everyone. I'll go ahead and grab the Ultimate Compound and the M105 and start things off with the M205 to see if that is enough in itself to remove the swirls/scratches. It is my hope that it is. I'll use my door as a test panel and go from there.

I see that most of these buffers have different "packages" that they offer in terms of color, material, and type of pad.

What are your suggestions as far pad choices go? How many of each type will I need?

As for the 50/50 mix, I won't be using that to remove the M205. I will simply perform a wipe down of my car after the M205 to see if I artficially (filled instead of buffed out) the scratches. This will be a good indicator.

I see that most buffers (Griots, PC, and Meguiars) say to use between 10-20 lbs of pressure. I suppose that by taking the buffer and pushing down on a scale I should be able to get a feel for it?

A link to a noob guide that is all encompassing would be really nice

I didn't see anything in the stickies though.

**Michael Stoops** · Mar 20, 2012, 10:00 AM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

With regard to the IPA wipedown (or CarPro Eraser if you choose for the process) that's fine to check your work along the way during the compounding stage just to make sure you are actually removing all the defects. After that it isn't really necessary although many people doing very high end work prefer to utilize it throughout the process.

JJH, since it sounds like this is going to be your first time using a DA we think your energy is going to be better spent honing your technique and developing your skills with the tool rather than worry about whether you need to do an IPA wipedown, if you're leaving too many oils on the surface, etc. M205 is usually an extremely easy wipe off product and it's not as heavy in polishing oils as M07 or Ultimate Polish.

There is a lot of talk about stripping anything from the surface prior to applying a synthetic sealant but very few companies actually demand such a pure surface for their products. Our own chemists state that a thin layer of polish that fills the pores of the paint to some degree actually helps the polymers in a sealant bond as it provides a flatter surface for them to lay on. I personally have used Blackfire Wet Diamond following M205 without any IPA or CarPro Eraser wipe down and never experienced any negative results doing so.

**Michael Stoops** · Mar 20, 2012, 02:46 PM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

Originally posted by JJH View Post

Thanks for all of the help above everyone. I'll go ahead and grab the Ultimate Compound and the M105 and start things off with the M205 to see if that is enough in itself to remove the swirls/scratches. It is my hope that it is. I'll use my door as a test panel and go from there.

Hold on now, don't swing all the way back the other way here! While we think M105 may be a bit of overkill here, M205 is probably not going to be aggressive enough to do the trick. We would start with Ultimate Compound right out of the box (or bottle, as the case may be).

Originally posted by JJH View Post

I see that most of these buffers have different "packages" that they offer in terms of color, material, and type of pad.

What are your suggestions as far pad choices go? How many of each type will I need?

If you're staying in our pad line (and we recommend picking up our W68DA backing plate if you are) then we'd suggest at least two each of the polishing and finishing pads - W8207 and W9207 respectively. You'll want at least a couple of polishing pads for the initial correction step since you use them more aggressively, and with more product, in that process. Then a clean W9207 finishing pad for a final polish, and another for wax application.

Originally posted by JJH View Post

I see that most buffers (Griots, PC, and Meguiars) say to use between 10-20 lbs of pressure. I suppose that by taking the buffer and pushing down on a scale I should be able to get a feel for it?

Pressure required is going to vary with what needs to be done, how the paint responds, what part of the process are you doing, etc. You'll generally use more pressure during defect removal, less for finish polishing, and very little for wax application. For defect removal, if need be, you can actually apply enough pressure to stop the pad from rotating, then ease up just enough to introduce some spin back to the pad. It doesn't need to be spinning quickly, but it does need to be spinning. With a lot of pressure, though, it is critical to keep the pad as flat to the paint as possible. As soon as you start to go up on the edge of the pad it will stop rotating. With heavy pressure also comes the very real potential for bogging down the tool, and the 7424XP will bog long before the Griot's or Meguiar's tools will.

More pressure will give more cut, as will slower arm speed over the paint, and a smaller work area.

Originally posted by JJH View Post

A link to a noob guide that is all encompassing would be really nice

I didn't see anything in the stickies though.

This should help you out. D/A Buffing 101 - An Introduction to the G110v2 and similar tools

**Murr1525** · Mar 20, 2012, 02:52 PM

Re: About to order a boatload of stuff, seeking advice.

Best to put a black mark on your pad, so you can actually see when it stops spinning, and then back off just a little.

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