M20 and M80

[latinner]

Hi there,

I've been impressed with what I've read and seen about the M20 and M80 products. I have a couple questions. 1. Since M80 is a polish and M20 a sealant would they work well together, or will M20's light cleaning action strip the M80 glaze? 2. If they can't be used together which one should I choose?

I understand M21 might be a better fit for using after M80 but I am interested in M20 as I hear it looks better/brighter than M21 on silver cars.

Thanks.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M20 and M80

M80 is a diminishing abrasive cleaner/polish that will remove light to moderate swirls and add some extra gloss with the polishing oil load it contains. While your suspicions about the cleaners in M20 potentially removing some of those polishing oils, since you're working on a silver car that might well be a moot point since silver doesn't benefit from the application of polishing oils in quite the same way dark colors like black, red, dark blue, etc will.

You mention, however, that you've "heard" that M20 looks better/brighter than M21 on silver, but that is very much a personal opinion and you may see it the other way around. While both M20 and M21 are very popular products, each has it's own proponents for a variety of reasons, including personal tastes. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the looks of M21 on lighter colors, but once again, that's just one man's opinion and yours may vary. Then again, I personally like what a good pure polish can do to lighter colors so my personal inclination would be to go M80/M21.

You don't mention whether you're working by hand or with a buffer of some sort. If you're using a good DA buffer like our G220v2 then we would actually recommend you go with a couple of our consumer products - Ultimate Compound, Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Wax. Even though these are in our consumer line, the the compound and polish are derived from our pro line (M105 and M205, respectively) while Ultimate Wax has no equal in our pro line. On a silver car you could most likely skip the polish and go straight from UC to Ultimate Wax. Oh, and even though UC is a consumer product, it will remove more defects in less time than M80 can or will.

So now the big question - did we help, or just throw a spanner in the works for you????

[latinner]

Re: M20 and M80

Thanks for the reply Michael.

I am new to detailing, previously I just used to wash the car and not use any products. I intend to work by hand. I've read a lot of stuff on these forums, and maybe I understood wrong but I thought wax/sealant does not produce a beautiful finish by itself, it just locks in the polish and protects that. I thought the look actually came from the polish. Am I wrong?

If silver doesn't benefit much from polishing oils, I suppose using M80 on it would be pointless and I can skip the polish stage. Would a wax/sealant be enough to produce a real beautiful glossy look on a silver car? Wash > Clay/Cut > Sealant ?

Thanks.

[Detailing by M]

Re: M20 and M80

20 is my go to and alot of other detailers too. It's a fantastic product.

[Murr1525]

Re: M20 and M80

Well, there is a whole lot of maybe's in there... looks really come down to your own opinion. You might see the results of a wax one way, while I see them another.

In general, most people dont see a much of a difference bewteen a silver color that is cleaned then waxed, or one that is cleaned, then polished, then waxed. So a bit of a wasted step in that case. And most products contain some polishing oils, so there is still something there to moisturize the paint.

So working by hand, you could look at a few processes....

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Clean/Polish - Defect Removal - Ult. Compound; Mild/Regular Cleaning - Ult. Polish, #80, #205.
4. Wax
5. Wax

or:

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. cleaner/wax - ColorX, Cleaner/Wax, #20, White Wax, Black Wax, etc
4. Wax - a regular wax like Ult. Wax, etc

[latinner]

Re: M20 and M80

Why 2nd wax? 20 is a sealant.

[davey g-force]

Re: M20 and M80

It's not absolutely necessary to do a second coat of wax.

Some people like to do it to make sure they didn't miss any spots the first time. Some do it to "layer" two different waxes on top of each other e.g. a carnauba on top of a synthetic - but it's questionable whether "layering" is even effective / possible.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M20 and M80

Thanks for the reply Michael.

I am new to detailing, previously I just used to wash the car and not use any products. I intend to work by hand. I've read a lot of stuff on these forums, and maybe I understood wrong but I thought wax/sealant does not produce a beautiful finish by itself, it just locks in the polish and protects that. I thought the look actually came from the polish. Am I wrong?

You read correctly - wax/sealant alone does not produce the majority of the gloss, that comes from all the prep work. And that prep work often includes claying, defect removal (compounding) as well as polishing. Claying is important in order to remove all the above surface bonded contaminants that make the paint feel rough to the touch. But these contaminants also add texture to the surface, and texture reduces gloss. The presence of these contaminants also makes it harder to apply and remove a wax or sealant and shortens the durability of them as well. Compounding eliminates below surface defects like fine swirls, etchings from bird droppings, embedded dirt etc. These things, as they accumulate, also reduce the overall gloss and reflectivity of the paint. While swirls can be very difficult to see on silver paint you can still have them, and still eliminate them, which will enhance the gloss and clarity of the paint. If you skip all of this and just apply a wax or sealant, you'll only go a short way toward improving the overall look of the paint.

If silver doesn't benefit much from polishing oils, I suppose using M80 on it would be pointless and I can skip the polish stage. Would a wax/sealant be enough to produce a real beautiful glossy look on a silver car? Wash > Clay/Cut > Sealant ?

Thanks.

We always consider a pure polish like M07, Deep Crystal Polish, etc to be optional, especially on lighter colors and/or clear coat finishes. The lighter the color, generally speaking, the less dramatic the effect of applying a pure polish. But that doesn't necessarily mean you should always skip it. Some people are just looking to keep their car looking decent but are only willing to put in so much time, so for them a quick clay and cleaner wax is more than fine. But if you're working with a buffer of any sort, and you have a very critical eye and demand an extremely high standard in your vehicle's finish, then you're the type who would clay, compound, finish polish with something like M205 (it can do wonders for gloss and clarity on any color, especially when machine applied) and then apply whatever wax or sealant you like.

So before finalizing a plan of attack, ask yourself:

1. What's the condition of the paint?
2. What are your goals?
3. How much time do you have (or are willing to spend)?
4. What's your skill level and/or what tools are you using (hand, DA, rotary)?

[latinner]

Re: M20 and M80

Hi all, thanks for the great responses. I've decided to use a wax-friendly car wash, clay, then M20 applied by hand. Due to time constraints I am not interested in applying dedicated polishes and dedicated sealants or second coats of waxes. That's not for me. I am impressed with the M20 high gloss finish, its ease of buffing off, and the fact it combines light cleaning and waxing in one product. I used a cutting polish yesterday which removed years of accumulated pollution. I am really impressed with the condition of the paint now (metallic silver) and think the car is ready for my new regimen. I will be purchasing the M20 and selecting a clay. My question is which detailer should I use inbetween washes? We get a lot of rain (and air pollution) here in the UK and something to use inbetween washes is a must. I want to avoid any detailers that will strip M20's finish and protection. I need something compatible. Thanks again.

[ffboy]

Re: M20 and M80

Ultimate Quik Detailer is the best in durability in the consumer line up, for economical purposes the M135 Synthetic Detailer which is very similar to UQD but is under the professional (Mirror Glaze) and is available in gallon size. The original quik detailer is also good, though not as high tech as M135 or UQD. My favorite is Last Touch, versatile, can be dilluted 50/50 for claying, leaves a slick surface though it doesn't have any polymers like the UQD and M135.

While you're at it, get some spray wax. Ultimate Quik wax, leaves a nice rich shine, and has the Hydrophobic polymers. It's also quite durable for a spray wax, and easy to use.

[latinner]

Re: M20 and M80

Since you didn't mention it, none of these will strip M20? That's the part I am unclear on.
Not interested in a spray wax.

[ffboy]

Re: M20 and M80

Since you didn't mention it, none of these will strip M20? That's the part I am unclear on.
Not interested in a spray wax.

Nope, quick detailers are used to remove light dust. In fact, regular use will help in keeping that wax protection fresh, and prevent build up of dust and contaminants which are the bigger culprits in when it comes to shortening a wax/sealants protection and shine.

[ffboy]

Re: M20 and M80

I'm surprised you're not interested in spray wax. It does help a lot, and very easy to use. Basically you apply it like you would a spray detailer.

[Murr1525]

Re: M20 and M80

Yeah, you really should consider the spray waxes for after washes.

You can use the QD to remove light dust, bird droppings, etc, but they will not extend the protection.

The spray waxes like Ult. Quick Wax need a clean surface (like after washing), but will extend the life of the base coat of wax. I also think they make drying quicker, since you are interested in saving time.

[latinner]

Re: M20 and M80

Well, from what I've read about M20, the protection lasts a while. One guy here tested it and it lasted almost as long as M21. So, I don't need an extra product if it's not necessary to buy one. I don't mind washing, claying and re-applying M20 every few weeks. Also, if I understand correctly UQW is caranuba based which is a different kind of shine (warmer) to the synthetic M20. I really like what I've read from several posters about M20's bright glossy finish on silver metallic cars and how that looks better on them than the warmer richer looking caranuba finish, so I don't see the point of getting a product that contradicts the look I'm trying to achieve.

As for detailers I'm thinking about the original Quik Detailer. Meguiar website says UQD leaves a ultra-dark finish which again, isn't what I'm looking for.