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**Boss_429** · Apr 20, 2005, 04:24 PM

yogi,

1. When you say #1 swirl remover, I assume you are talking about Deep Cyrstal step #1........ correct? If so, it is not a true swirl remover. It is a chemical paint cleaner. However, if used with a PC, it will remove some very light, superficial swirls. That said, the Klasse is some pretty tough stuff, but the #1 should remove it with a little work.

2. Do not WORK #7 Show Car Glaze. You simply apply a light, even layer of product. Essentially, you are just applying a light coat of the Meguiar's trade secret oils to the finish.

3. Same thing with the NXT......... you are not trying to "work" the product.......... just trying to lay down a nice thin, even layer of product. The action of PC will "work it in" quite easily. I like to use the finishing pad with NXT. However, some people use the polishing pad. I would use the finishing pad if I were applying it over #7. If you simply "lay down" a nice coat....... you won't hardly touch the #7.

4. Show Car Glaze has no abrasives........ #80 does. #80 will remove and hide light swirls (because of the abrasives). #7 will only hide them. Both are great products and both will add gloss, wetness, and depth to your paint. One of my favorite Meguiar's one-two punches is #80 followed by #81 Pro hand Polish (very similar to #7)

Here's what I would suggest......

Use the Deep Crystal #1 with a polishing pad and the PC set at 3.5 - 4. Simply apply it to the area with one pass of the PC using slightly overlapping strokes of the PC and wipe the area with a high quality MP. Move on to the next section.

Apply the #7 with a finishing pad and the PC set at 3.5 - 4. Again, apply a light coat using slighly overlappying strokes. You can also apply #7 by hand quite easily. Anyhow, apply a light coat (keep it light) to the entire vehicle. Then come back with a 100% cotton towel and lightly cut through the haze that #7 will leave. DON'T try and buff it all off. Continue around the vehicle with the light wipe process and a 100% cotton towel. Then, come back with a high quality MF towel, and lightly wipe down the entire vehicle again. Again, don't buff the area........ just try to get more of the haze off. If necessary, go over the vehicle lightly again with a fresh MF towel to finish removing the haze (or flashed skin of the oils).

I know that sounds like a bit of work with the #7, but it's really not. I find that doing the above really makes it easy to work with #7 and it looks awesome, because, you have left all those nice oils behind and not tried to "buff" them off.

With the NXT, I like to use a finishing pad with the PC set at 3.5. Again, slightly overlapping stokes with one pass of the PC. Do the entire vehicle. By the time you get done applying it, you usually can come back where you started and start wiping it off with a good MF towel. However, if you applied too much product or the humidity is high, you may need to wait a little while (15 minutes or so) and then wipe it off. Use the finger swipe test to check it for sure.

Now, let it dry/cure for a few hours or overnight and apply another light coat of NXT by hand. You'll be very pleased!

Hope this helps.

**yogibear458** · Apr 20, 2005, 06:13 PM

Thanks Boss for your very detailed instructions.

I refer to the Swirl Remove as #1 because it doesn't have Swirl Remove 2 on the bottle. I bought that some time ago so I thought it's version 1

I'll follow your instrcutions and report back. thx again.

**Tim Lingor** · Apr 20, 2005, 06:27 PM

Hey,

Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze is available in Canada. I suggest you visit your local Napa dealer and ask that they order it for you.

Also, from my understanding, in Canada, the 16oz version of #9 Swirl Remover (M-0916) uses the old label but has the new version of #9 in it (I believe it has to do with the bilingual label). The gallon size of #9 Swirl Remover does have the new label (#9 2.0) however.

Cheers!

Tim

**yogibear458** · Apr 22, 2005, 03:35 PM

Hey,

Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze is available in Canada. I suggest you visit your local Napa dealer and ask that they order it for you.

Thx... for the info.. I didn't know about Napa.

I went to a local Napa... and ordered the #80 plus a few other goodies.

**Tim Lingor** · Apr 22, 2005, 03:49 PM

Cool! Glad I could help!

Tim

**Jetskied** · Apr 25, 2005, 10:29 AM

Yogi
Yes the new Mercedes clear are suppose to be rock hard ceramic, go when you try one of the #9 or #80 it may not remove some of thoes defects. I'm not sure as I never worked on one of these, but you may have to use Menzerma new polishes designed for these clears. It is sold at properautocare.com and its pretty expensive $40 for a quart. I just wanted to inform you of this options.

**Mike Phillips** · Apr 25, 2005, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Jetskied
Yogi
Yes the new Mercedes clear are suppose to be rock hard ceramic, go when you try one of the #9 or #80 it may not remove some of those defects. I'm not sure as I never worked on one of these, but you may have to use Menzerna new polishes designed for these clears. It is sold at properautocare.com and its pretty expensive $40 for a quart. I just wanted to inform you of this options.

There's really no need to get think the Ceramiclear used on Mercedes-Benz automobiles need a special product to remove defects, mechanical abrasive, diminishing abrasive, chemical cleaner, or otherwise. Products cannot tell what they are being applied to, (Nitrocellulose Lacquer or Ceramicclear paints), likewise, they cannot tell what they are abrading, they are either aggressive enough, or they are not. They are either removing small particles of paint or they are not.

I've read a bunch of threads about this on other forums and never seen anyone question the claim that Ceramiclear paints require a special product to cut them, so allow me.

I've buffed out a number of these cars and Meguiar's 80's serious worked perfectly every time. If Meguiar's R&D discovered after experimenting with these types of paint a new product was needed, they would formulate one, but as the saying goes, ain't broke, don't fix it". Instead, go with a system of product that works on any paint system and is proven to produce consistent, stellar results.

Instead of being fooled into thinking a new paint system requires a special compounding system, remember that all across body shop here in America and in the world, painters are spraying these paint for repair work and total re-paints and in all of these shops their more than likely using the same products/system they use on all the other types of paint they spray.

While it's true, it's possible there will be new paint systems created in the future that will require new technology to work on them, the Ceramiclear system isn't one of them. Here's a better approach at working at this paint system and all current paint systems being sprayed,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Besides that, every Ceramiclear finish I have machine cleaned and polished, my perception was that it buffed easy, as in defects were removed easily.

**Mike Phillips** · Apr 25, 2005, 11:42 AM

Re: Questions: Show Car Glaze + NXT ...

Originally posted by yogibear458
My questions are:
1. Is the Swirl remover good enough to remove NXT and Klasse? If not, what should I use? (thereâ€™s still a bit swirls here and there under certain lighting conditions but generally not noticeable)

Using a W-8006 polishing pad with the M09 Swirl Remover should remove the Klasse. Klasse dries like Elmer's glue on your car, that's why everyone is always talking about using the WOWO method to apply and remove it. If you apply it and don't get it off your car right away, it will be very, very difficult to remove. (Pour some onto a piece of Saran wrap that is on a flat surface and let it dry overnight and then look at it). Anytime someone recommend getting a product off your finish quickly, a red flag should go up.

2. Using a polishing pad with a PC how long should I work the Show Car Glaze?

One or two passes. Show Car Glaze is for adding beauty, gloss, clarity and richness and is often times applied by hand. A thin coat, worked in well and then removed is optimum.

3. Which (polish or finishing) pad should I use with NXT ? and how long should I work the NXT? Will I be taking away the glaze when I apply NXT? Should I use a finishing pad and use the PC to spread it out and not working it in?

Finishing pad. Set your speed setting to 3.0 and make 2-3 passes over each square inch with just a little more than the weight of the machine. Let completely dry, then remove.

4. What is the difference between Show Car Glaze and Speed Glaze? I canâ€™t find Speed Glaze in the stores here and I donâ€™t think itâ€™s available for Meguiar's Canada online.

Speed Glaze is a cleaner/polish, it contains some diminishing abrasive, Show Car Glaze is a pure/polish, it contains no ingredients with the intended purpose of removing paint. (I'll post some more information on this in a second)

A very good friend of mine just bought a new Benz SLK350 , metallic blackâ€¦ lovely thing. Sheâ€™ll bring it over for me to â€˜waxâ€™ it. I plan to clay and Show car glaze then NXT. Anything that I should watch out for Benz paint? There are light swirl marks already on the day of delivery!!! Criminals! The paint is supposedly harder because of ceramic particles/molecules in the clear coat. I promise to pose pictures of the Benz when it's done.

Many thanks

I keep seeing people talking about how hard this paint is but in my experience, it buffs real easy, be careful of who you listen to on the Internet.

**Mike Phillips** · Apr 25, 2005, 11:44 AM

Read the entire article below for lots of great, University Level information, and for specific information on the difference between a cleaner/polish and a pure polish, read through Step 3 Polishing

What's the difference between polish and wax?
(Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle)

There is a lot of confusion about the difference between a polish, and a wax. Many companies are marketing waxes and paint protectants as polishes and glazes and the terms have become almost interchangeable.

Professionals know there is a big difference.

Meguiar's is a true polish manufacture. That is, unlike many of our competitors that can only offer you a few products for cars with cured paint, Meguiar's product range runs from the highest quality finishing papers in the industry, to state-of-the-art pure synthetic paint protectants, to everything in-between.

Example: Most companies only offer the following products:

* Car wash
* Pre-wax cleaner
* One or two waxes (usually some type of natural wax or polymer/silicone synthetic protectant)
* Multi-surface vinyl protectant

And sometimes one or more of the following:

* Some type of wheel cleaner, leather treatment, or tire dressing.

Because they offer such a limited selection, and often times don't even manufacture the products themselves, they really have no expertise when it comes to formulating complex products that professionals require as an intricate part of performing their job duties as skilled craftsman. This is why frequently you will see a product whose purpose is to protect the paint labeled as a polish.

Instead of merely defining the difference between a polish and a wax, below you will find the Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle and the products and procedures for each of the 5 steps.

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle

The 5-step paint care cycle outlines the 5 basic but important procedures and the accompanying products that enable you to restore and maintain a show car shine on your car's finish.

Below are the 5 categories of products including pure polishes and cleaner/polishes as they are placed in the 5-step paint care cycle.

The 5-Step Paint Care Cycle includes:

Step-1 Washing

Washing removes loose surface dirt and loose contaminants that have not yet bonded to the surface. All Meguiar's wash products are specially formulated to clean well without stripping wax protection or dulling and drying out all paint types. All Meguiar's washes also contain special conditioning agents that leave behind a slick, high gloss surface.

Because most people wash their car more than any other procedure, it's important to use a car wash solution that is specifically formulated for the unique chemistry used to make modern clear coats. Above all, avoid using common dish washing detergents because these products are extremely harsh and tend to dull the finish down with each use. Dish soaps are also hard on other materials and components such as rubber, vinyl and plastics, remember, when you wash your car with dish soap everything is subjected to the dulling and drying effects high alkaline soaps cause to your vehicle.

Step-2 Cleaning or Surface Prep

Surface Prep includes both paint cleaning (not to be confused with the washing step), and claying the finish (with a clay bar). To help you accomplish these two steps, Meguiar's offers a number of safe but effective paint cleaners and an easy to use clay bar kit that includes everything you need to clay your car's finish.

Paint Cleaners
This includes highly specialized Compounds and Paint Cleaners, which utilize both microscopic and macroscopic diminishing abrasives? technology. Meguiar's has pioneered and led the industry in diminishing abrasive technology since 1901. Over the course of these many years, Meguiar's has developed more formulas than any other company for performing the delicate procedure of removing a defect in the paint, while at the same time, removing as little paint as humanly possible during the process.

Meguiar's diminishing abrasive technology is one of Meguiar's most guarded secrets that is so highly sought after by our competitors and which completely separates us from the rest of the competition when you look at the results with your own two eyes. Our abrasive products, correctly used, leave the surface looking as though it were just polished, not as though it were just scoured with a compounded.

Out of all the procedures in the 5-step paint care cycle, cleaning is the most important procedure because the results from your cleaning step will determine the end result for the polishing and protecting steps.

"A surface won't go clear until it comes clean"

It is vitally important that all bonded contaminants, surface imperfections, oxidation, pore-embedding stains, and built-up road grime, etc. first be removed in order to bring the finish to it's highest potential for clarity, gloss, depth and shine.

Applying a wax, whether it's synthetic, natural or a blend of both, to a neglected surface that has not been properly cleaned and then polished, will merely act to seal or lock the contaminants to the finish, and will do nothing to improve, or remove the other defects and in most cases will only marginally improve gloss, shine and reflectivity.

Clay Bar Technology
Clay bar technology evolved as a natural reaction to the need that arose for a way to safely remove bonded contaminants from clear coat paints without resorting to traditional rubbing or polishing compounds and the resulting scratches caused by the sharp, hard abrasive typically used in these formulas.

In the old days, if you found overspray or any type of unwanted substance on the hood, roof or deck lid of your car that washing didn't remove, you could simply go to the garage and grab any old compound, and together with a rag, you could quickly remove the offending contaminants. After that you could simply apply just about any companies wax and presto-chango, the problem was gone.

Not so simple anymore.

If your were to perform that same procedure to a modern clear coat today, you would see a horrible looking scratched-up mess everywhere you applied the compound, and the wax would do nothing to cover the scratches up.

Enter the Clay bar
Clay bars are non-abrasive bars of synthetic clay called Polyclay. They are somewhat like a high-tech version of Play-Doh?. They work in three easy steps:

1) - First you mold the clay bar into a pancake-looking flat wafer
2) - Second you lubricate the finish with a spray lubricant like Meguiar's Quik Detailer
3) - Third you then rub the clay bar back and forth across the paint (somewhat like a bar of soap against your arm)

That's it! You are now claying your car's finish. As you're doing this, the clay bar will grab onto, lift, and pullout the contaminants that have bonded to the surface of your finish.

Generally speaking for most cars, only the horizontal surfaces need to be clayed, as it is the horizontal surfaces that contaminants tend to land on and if not removed within a reasonable period of time will then bond tightly to the surface. For extremely neglected vehicles, you can always evaluate the vertical surfaces and if need be, clay them too.

One important thing to keep in mind, if a vehicle's finish has bonded contaminants, it is highly likely that it also has below surface defects, for example, pore-embedding stains. For this reason, Meguiar's recommends for best possible results, always use a paint cleaner after claying to insure the finish is clean both on top of the surface as well as below the surface.

Step-3 Polishing

Meguiar's offers two types of polishes, Cleaner Polishes and Pure Polishes. Cleaner Polishes are for removing very light or fine defects while restoring a crystal clear, smooth high gloss surface. Pure polishes are for finishes already in excellent condition and are for the purpose or creating brilliant high gloss with deep dark reflections.

If you look in Webster's Dictionary under the word polish, one of the definitions they include reads like this:

"A preparation that is used to produce gloss, and often color for the protection and decoration of a surface."

This definition best describes Meguiar's Pure Polishes. Meguiar's pure polishes are designed to create brilliant high gloss while preparing the surface for the application of a protective coating. Meguiar's pure polishes accomplish this without the use of abrasives.

Another definition found in Webster's Dictionary for polish is,

"To make smooth and glossy by friction."

This definition best describes Meguiar's Cleaner/Polishes. Meguiar's cleaner polishes are formulated to very gently abrade the surface with Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive TM and Buffered Abrasive TM technology to remove the finest defects and create a perfectly smooth, high gloss finish.

Depending on what type of paint you're working on, traditional paints like lacquers and enamels, or catalyzed clear coats, Meguiar's has the products specifically designed to work on both types of paints, not to mention many other surfaces such as plastics and polyester resins (Fiberglas Gel-coats).

Meguiar's Trade Secret Polishing Oils
The trade secret oils Meguiar's uses in both types of polishes are unique to the industry and to this day have never been surpassed for creating deep, dark reflections and brilliant high gloss by any of our competitors in over 100 years.

The oils Meguiar's uses are also important in maintaining the original condition of the paint by filling in the naturally occurring microscopic pores and surface imperfections thus preventing detrimental substances and elements as simple as water, or worse, acid-rain, from entering into these pores and microscopic surface imperfections thus causing oxidation and chemical etching. These oils act to replace the original resins as they wear away through natural processes.

When paint is new, it is the most impermeable it will ever be, this means it is a very smooth non-porous, continuous film. With age, exposure to the environment and micro-scratching caused by day-in, day-out wear and tear, your paint develops micro-fissures in the surface along with other defects. These micro-fissures and other defects act to make the continuous film or coating of paint more porous. As this happens, your car's finish becomes more vulnerable to corrosive elements that will attack and degrade your finish.

Remember, waxes, synthetic or otherwise, are meant to be Sacrificial Barriers with the intended purpose sealing the surface, while blocking those things that would attack your paint, from coming into direct contact with the paint.

"Waxes protect your finish by sacrificing themselves so that your paint doesn't have to"

An analogy is your skin. In the same way you can clean, polish and protect your skin, you can clean, polish and protect your car's finish. Soap can be used to clean your skin and remove dirt from the pores. Skin lotions can be used to moisturize your skin, conditioning it and making it more clear and beautiful. Protection products like lotions used to protect hands from exposure to chemicals and UV protectants can be applied to help protect your skin from the things that would attack your skin if these harmful things could come into direct contact with your skin.

While human skin and automotive paint are very different, the analogy is very similar. With Meguiar's, you can:

* Wash your car's finish to remove unwanted and accumulated dirt contaminants
* Clean your paint with our special paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes
* Polish your paint with our pure polishes to create unequaled beauty
* Protect your paint with our advanced paint protection products
* Maintain your car's finish using our fast and easy to use maintenance products.

The unique thing about Meguiar's highly specialized trade secret oils is their ability to restore and maintain the Optical Clarity of both single stage and clear coat paints in a way that waxes alone cannot match, (both natural and synthetic), the results of which are demonstrated in side-by-side comparisons.

Step-4 Protecting

Paint protection products (waxes by any other name), whether they are based on natural ingredients or synthetic ingredients (or a blend of both) provide a protective film, or Sacrificial Barrier (as mentioned above) against Mother Nature and other detrimental or corrosive substances. Without this sacrificial barrier, your finish is susceptible to attack at any time, as harmful or corrosive substances come into direct contact with the surface.

This brings up the topic of Water Beading. While most people use the visual indicator of water beading on the surface to mean their finish is protected... it is actually only an indicator of High Surface Tension.

High Surface Tension does not automatically mean the coating that has been applied is actually providing any real or meaningful protective characteristics.

Meguiar's R & D department has decades of expertise in creating the most advanced polymer-based formula's made from state-of-the-art engineered synthetic polymers, which are able to evenly cross-link very tightly to the surface and offer real protection on a multitude of surfaces against a multitude of attacks. Our products can also achieve optimal cross-linking within 15 to 20 minutes after application allowing the excess product to be removed shortly thereafter.

Some of Meguiar's polymer-based waxes include:

Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax
#20 Polymer Sealant
Medallion Premium Paint Protection
Gold Class Clear Coat Car Wax
Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax
Marine Flagship

Even our Spray Waxes contain high performance, engineered synthetic polymers, as do some of our Car Wash products.

Besides acting as sacrificial barriers to protect the underlying surface, a premium wax can also increase the visual appearance of a finish. Many of Meguiar's waxes will not only provide better protection than the competition, but will also:

* Increase optical clarity and distinction of image (D.O.I.)
* Enhance and increase the reflective characteristics of medium to dark color finishes
* Add shine and slickness
* Create wet-looking gloss
* Fill-in and hide swirls and scratches
* Provide the most UV protection available
* Offer water sheeting action, or water beading action (depending on the wax)

Choosing the right wax for your finish and your unique circumstances is something our Surface Care Experts would love to help you determine. Just call our Customer Care Hotline and talk to a knowledgeable technician to help you make the right choice.

Step-5 Maintaining

Maintenance products, like our Quik Detailer, and our Quik Wax, allow you quickly clean your car and restore that just waxed look in just a matter of minutes... practically anywhere.

Meguiar's Quik Detailer removes fresh contaminants before they have a chance to bond or etch into the surface.

Meguiar's Quik Wax quickly and easily boosts your already existing wax protection while turning your finish dramatically darker and increasing shine and gloss.

Meguiar's actually invented the concept of a mist and wipe product for consumers back in the early-80's with the introduction of their mist & wipe product called "Trigger Wash"

As leaders and experts in the surface care industry, we have a history of creating new products, such as mist & wipe products like our Quik Detailer and M-34 Final Inspection to help our customers maintain and beautify their vehicles.

In keeping with that history, we have just introduced a brand new spray wax that produces similar results as Meguiar's Quik Wax. It's actually a part of Meguiar's NXT Generation line of products based upon Meguiar's ESP Technology (Engineered Synthetic Polymers) and is a companion product to Meguiar's new NXT Tech Wax it's called NXT Spray Wax.

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle clearly demonstrates there are 5 basic steps to professional and intelligent car care.

Using the correct Meguiar's products and the right technique, you can remove scratches and swirls that have accumulated from years of neglect to successfully restore a flawless, show car finish as demonstrated here on a 1991 BMW E34 M5. The left side is untouched, while the right side has been professionally restored using all Meguiar's products.

The 5-Step Paint Care Cycle enables you to understand exactly what a product is not just by the name on the label, but by the results the product accomplishes according to the 5 different groups of procedures outlined in the 5-Step Paint Care Cycle.

If a product is labeled a polish, but in fact is used to protect the paint, then you know it's a wax or a paint protectant and not an actual polish in the true sense of the definition of the word.

Here at Meguiar's we manufacture some very complex products, of which polishes and waxes are only a small portion of our complete line.

Mike

**E-Jag** · Apr 25, 2005, 12:37 PM

Question- early in this thread Boss_429 advises Not to work #7 but rather to lay on lightly. A little further down, Mike P. advises to work it in well. Not looking to pick nits but how do you reconcile these 2 comments - have been curious myself. Thanks

E-Jag

**E-Jag** · Apr 25, 2005, 12:41 PM

#7 and NXT

Sorry. Screwed this up somehow. Let me know if seems completely out of context. Didn't mean it to be a separate thread. Sorry

E-Jag

**yogibear458** · Apr 25, 2005, 02:53 PM

thanks again for all the great input.

Weather has been lousy lately,...it has been raining for the last 3days... so much rain that the Insane tire shine is almost all gone !!!

Got the #80 and #83 and a number of M8006s and 9006s from NAPA. Now I'm happy to know there's a place I can go to get my stuff without ordering through the net and pay brokerage when they come through customs.

**Tim Lingor** · Apr 25, 2005, 04:08 PM

Hey E-Jag,

Maybe I can clarify things a little more.

Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze is a pure polish. It contains no ingredients with the intended purpose of cleaning. It's goal is to beautify the surface by using rich TS Oils. Because it is a pure polish, there is no need to truly work the product like you would say #80 that has diminishing abrasives for cleaning the paint.

However, the product still needs to be applied thoroughly. In other words, applied side to side and then front to front in order for complete coverage. I believe that is what Mike meant when he said to work it in well. You need to ensure complete coverage.

Tim

**Mike Phillips** · Apr 25, 2005, 04:44 PM

By the wording, work in well, I mean to apply thoroughly to an area before moving on to a new area. That is, you need to do more than just wipe it on, you want to wipe it on and the work it in evenly, like you would skin lotion to dry skin. You would never just wipe some skin lotion onto your arm, you would wipe it onto your skin, and then work it into your skin to enable the lotion to penetrate and cover the skin evenly.

I think Boss)429 means the same thing, his point, and he can correct me if he likes, is that you don't work a pure polish like a paint cleaner where you're actually trying to remove a defect, that would be to extreme for a pure polish.

Apply a pure polish, spread it out over a small section, work into and over the finish, then move to another section. This insures uniform penetration and thus uniform appearance.

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Questions: ShowCar Glaze + NxT ...

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