The Complete Process Questions

[Naenyc]

Guys,

I would appreciate some help in moving forward with detailing a few cars.
I'm stalled and not sure reading any more forums/contacting Meguiar’s will get me any closer.

Essentially would like a methodology where acceptable results are reached with reasonable effort, I'm sort of a 80/20 guy.

CONSTRAINTS:

• Living in NYC and will detail the vehicles on a long weekend in Massachusetts.
• Would rather overspend on products than have delays.

EXPERIENCE:

• Haven't waxed a car in 20 years(since moving to NYC).

• I’m relying on my distance nightmare experiences renovating an old Colonial house using Taylor Rental Floor and Edge sanders with 36 grit papers. There was a time when it had to be essentially planed and went even lower and it was NECESSARY or the project wouldn’t have completed, which is a concern on the cars. The “Polishing” of the wood floors required multiple passes/grades, you really couldn’t skip grits.

• “Let’s talk about Total Cut” discusses the multi-variable cutting system, but I’m attempting to reduce some by making the following constant for polishing/cutting:

CONSTANTS:

• Rotary Polisher
• Constant size Pads.
• Constant Pressure/Movement (Understand that pressure lightens in the end)
  • At least once I figure the technique/product/equipment out.
  
  
• Eliminating cost as a factor:
  • Purchase the most expensive for consistency/simplicity.
  • Purchase an abundance of MicroFiber Clothes.
  
  
• Tape: Tape will be applied to exterior plastic if it simplifies.
• Eliminate Perfection, simply don’t need it.

VIDEOS/RESEARCH
- Many, but this seems to be among the best:
How To Meguiar's Professional Mirror Glaze Training Video
Let’s Talk about “Total Cut” Excellent


PRIMARY Goal:
2004 BMW 545i Black: which was extremely well maintained by brother-in-law prior to my receiving it. Hasn't been waxed in 1.5 years and sat four 4 months with a white salt haze on it.


SECONDARY Goals:
These are my "practice cars", especially the 2005 Toyota Sienna

2005 Toyota Sienna: White: Hasn't been waxed in at least 3 years, maybe never.
2009 Hyundai Elantra: Blue: Never Waxed
2009 Toyota Sienna: White: Never Waxed


PREVIOUSLY PURCHASED: All New:

• ADT Rotary Polisher
• Mequiar's: 8" Soft Buff Foam Finishing Pad
• Mequiar's: 8" Soft Buff Foam Polishing Pad
• Generic Car Wash from Advanced Auto
• P21S Carnuba Wax

PHASING:

• Experiment on White 2005 Sienna.
• Refine on White 2009 Sienna.
• Attack Blue Hyundai with advanced skills.
• Should be ready for Black BMW, better be.

Current Detailing Steps:
Contacted Meguiar's for advice on BMW. They suggested this plan of action.

• Wash
• Clay with Meguiar's C-2000 Mild Clay with Rotary Polisher (RP).
• Polish with Meguiar's Speed Glaze, #80.
• Wax with RP
• In addition: for other cars
  • Meguiar's C-2100 Clay Aggressive
  • Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner Polisher, #83
  
  

- Purchase Automotive Masking tape.



CONFUSION:

• Though the recommendation is to use the least abrasive product, as there isn't extensive time to experiment. Maybe purchase some #85, or maybe #84 for the non-waxed vehicles.

• The rational, is not too much harm if the car is only polished/waxed every year or two.

• Thought I had a plan until I came upon the 105/205 route

• Meguiare’s 105 Review
• Meguiare’s 205 Review

• Do you ever mix methods? That is, would anything in the "8x" series that should be used in conjunction with 105/205?
  • Mixed
  
  

• Is there any need for a stronger compound than #105?

• Is Clay necessary with 105?

• Clay: And if so,
  • Should the cars be clayed twice, once with Aggressive and once with Mild?
  
  

• 8" PADS: Thought the 8" route was OK, even decided I should pick up:

• 8" Soft foam cutting pad
• 8" Double Sided Wool Cutting pad.

• 6.5" PADS: One of videos suggested getting smaller pads and it seemed reasonable, why not.
  • A new backing plate in the cart
  • 6.5" Cutting/Finishing/Polishing Pads in the cart
  
  

• 7" PADS: Then this review suggested NOT to use 6.5", but the new 7".
  • Why 6.5 is poor choice.
  
  

• PADS 2 sizes: Are two sizes needed/recommended?

• LUBRICANT: The videos suggested a lubricant for the clay.
  • Pinnacle or Meguiar's Final Inspection?
  • “Last Touch” or “Final Inspection”
  • Last touch is mixed 1:1 with water.
  • If Final Inspection is better for a fast shine, maybe it is useful to cut down on products.
  
  

• WAX/Sealant/Both:
  • M2164 Synthetic Sealant seems well reviewed.
  • Do you wax over the sealant? (Sounds foolish)
  • Do you wax before sealant? (Sounds foolish)
  • If Wax, Ultimate Liquid won’t stain plastic trim. #12
  • Or do you simply recommend good taping and a paste wax.
  
  

POSSIBLE Detailing Steps:
Are all these steps necessary for cars that haven’t been ever been waxed?

• Wash
• Aggressive Clay with Rotary Polisher(RP).
• Mild Clay with Rotary Polisher (RP).
• Cut with Meguiar's Speed Glaze, #105(RP).
• Polish with Meguiar's #205(RP).
• Seal with Meguiar's M21(RP)
• Wax (RP). Hmm,Mequiar’s doesn’t recommend RP for wax or sealant?

WAIT: Are there any steps that can't be performed with Rotary Polisher?



Other Questions:

• If I purchase gallons, is there a life span to the products?
  • Really don't have any idea how much "Final Inspection is necessary" for 4 cars.
  
  
• Are washing mitts necessary if loads of Microfiber cloths are purchased?
• Bumpers, any special treatment?

Other Suggestions?


Realize this is long and tedious, all help would be appreciated.


Nils Eliassen

[C8N]

Re: The Complete Process Questions

I have no experience with a rotary so that I will leave that out and answer what I can.

My opinion on what type of clay you should use would depend on the paint. If you have soft paint, an agressive clay can leave marring. I would rather make more passes with the least agressive clay for a dirty car. Many seem to like the Last Touch as clay lube and I do as well. That thing is pretty slick. The point of clay lube is not to clean the car but to aid the clay glide against the paint without scratching and marring it so you shouldn't worry about shine at this point. I would just go buy the Meg's clay kit at your local auto part store. I know Walmart also stocks them. The clay kit comes with the least agressive clay Meg's offers and comes with a QD that can be used as clay lube. When the clay starts gliding on the paint with relatively no friction, you're gold! When the surface of the clay gets dirty, simply knead it so that a clean surface will appear. If you drop it... don't use it on paint. Use it on your glass.

Sealants have the better durability and protection over carnauba. However, some prefer the looks of the carnauba and this is usually why some people including myself layer. Hence, your base is the sealant and you top the sealant with the carnauba for the aesthetics. If the sealant you are using is satisfactory as looks are concerned, no need to top it. Some do like to do 2 layers just to make sure all areas are covered.

Wash mitts tends to hold more water and more lubrication you have, less of a risk of scratching the paint. However, some subscribe to the Garry Dean method where there is no use of a wash mitt. Goto youtube and search Garry Dean if you are interested.

Hope this helps

[Murr1525]

Re: The Complete Process Questions

Usually no need for the aggressive clay. Can use the Pro Mild Clay (blue) if you want something a little stronger than the Smooth Surface kit. I'd rather clay by hand, but thats just me.

If you are in a hurry, the Ult. Liquid and no taping would be fastest way to wax... although might be taping from the rotary steps anyway.

Wash mitts also have a longer pile usually, so holding dirt up away from the paint more.

Gallons of watery liquids will last a while if kept at normal temps. The creamier ones like #205, etc and waxes can start to separate after a few years, or if stored at extreme temps.

[Naenyc]

Re: The Complete Process Questions

Thanks for the help, truly appreciated.

Can’t understand why my comments included “claying” with a rotary polisher. That is impossible … correct?

I believe this is what is recommended.

Wash Mitts: Desirable, hold more water and longer pile tends to whisk away dirt.

Taping: Though Ultimate liquid does not require it, it might be beneficial to protect surface from RP.
Also taping would allow a paste was which Michael Stoops seems to prefer.
“with the noted exception that the liquid version won't stain plastic trim while the paste version will, but that's down to some of the ingredients that make it a paste. That said, from purely personal experience, I find the paste version to impart a brighter and crisper shine on virtually any color” #12

Clay Lubricant: Last Touch. Final inspection really doesn’t make sense as the likelihood of touching up the car without washing is remote and Last Touch is more economical.

Clay: Aggressive is only necessary for cars that really need it. Possibly for the older cars.

Wax/Selant: Interesting, I may try the M21 & Carnauba root in the belief that it may provide more durability. As it is difficult for me to perform the detailing more than once a year, it may provide extended protection.

Product Longevity: Shelf life under 2-3 years is not a concern, unless stored at high temps.

Gary Dean Method: Looks fantastic for those desiring the ultimate cleaning solution with patience, technique and time. With the unskilled minions I plan on recruiting, I’ll be lucky enough to have them handle the Wash Mitts properly.

PADS: Any ideas on the necessity for two pad sizes? In if so have the 6.5” inch been retired, which leaves 7” and 8” which might necessarily make sense.

Nils

[Murr1525]

Re: The Complete Process Questions

There is a machine attachment for claying, probably DA machine.

If you are looking at durability, the Ult. Waxes would be the way to go, whether you prefer liquid or paste.

I believe the 6.5" pads are the DA version 1 pads, 7" are the DA pads 2.0, and then 8" is for rotary. But, wont want rotary advice from me.

[C8N]

Re: The Complete Process Questions

Nanoskin makes pads that are an alternative to clay but I am not sure if it can work with a rotary.
They also makes towels and sponges as a clay alternative. However, I have read that a few people experienced some marring with these products while others have had great success.

I think whether or not you need more than 1 sized pads will really depend on your car. I have areas on my car that my 5.5" pads are not as effective on my DA. Hence I just ordered and received 3" BP with 3" and 4" pads.

[Naenyc]

Re: The Complete Process Questions

It does seem like insanity to use a clay bar on a Rotary Polisher.
http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?5036330-Using-a-clay-bar-with-a-rotary

And here is the DA gadget: DA Claybar

Might just go with 8" for now as it is not clear that a smaller size is necessary.