Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

[davey g-force]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

^^ did that pad get hot? Looks like there is too much product on it, which can cause foam pads to overheat.

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

If there's anything you need to be careful of, it's advice telling newbies to reach for the sandpaper. That's just fraught with danger IMO.

I agree with this.

^^ did that pad get hot? Looks like there is too much product on it, which can cause foam pads to overheat.

I agree that this pad looks overly saturated with product. Heat and too much product will do this to pads. Did you clean them while you were using them?

[BillE]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

A trick you can/may try to make the 'white spots' less visible is to do a gentle IPA wipe over that area. This will help to remove left over product (compound, polish) from the divots.

Afterwards, using a non-whitening wax helps also.

Just to add, you are DOING A GOOD JOB there...keep it up.

Bill

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

^^ did that pad get hot? Looks like there is too much product on it, which can cause foam pads to overheat.

I agree with this.

I agree that this pad looks overly saturated with product. Heat and too much product will do this to pads. Did you clean them while you were using them?

Thanks guys, no I didn't notice the pad getting hot, but I will pay more attention that and how much product I use.

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

A trick you can/may try to make the 'white spots' less visible is to do a gentle IPA wipe over that area. This will help to remove left over product (compound, polish) from the divots.

Afterwards, using a non-whitening wax helps also.

Just to add, you are DOING A GOOD JOB there...keep it up.

Bill

Thank you Bill, and I will try the IPA wipe down.

The spots at this point are my greatest concern. The vehicle otherwise is looking really good.

Though ironically as the car starts to look better the spots actually become more noticeable.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

If there's anything you need to be careful of, it's advice telling newbies to reach for the sandpaper. That's just fraught with danger IMO.

DA'ing, especially with foam, can sometimes be a waste of energy in regard to some defects, and sometimes sandpaper (or a rotary, or chip repair) is needed. These are facts. If you don't want people to learn such facts because you think of them as "newbies", then lobby MOL to have all threads here removed or password protected dealing with anything but foam pads, M205, and Ultimate Wax, which seems to be the advice so often argued here. If you think a rock chip or other deep defects can be repaired with a DA foam pad, do tell, but I think people who come here for help are allowed to freely read MOL and learn about other various techniques as they're ready to learn about them. Mike Stoops and others have some great threads on sanding and chip repair.

...I believe I have what is termed 'road rash' along with the tree etchings and other assorted nasties. It seems to be a sort of catch all phrase for all those little chips and imperfections that I have on my hood and trunk...I believe most are chips of varying depth. I'll try to work on more photos. But these are very tiny compared to the etching photos I first posted...There is no point compounding any further as I removed all I can via compound/DA.

Yes, some chips can be very small. It can be a sign of harder paint, and since the primer underneath is probably grey, and the "hole" may collect white-drying wax or compound, it looks white. Sometimes the clear/paint chips off, as if hard candy, and the best you can do with a DA machine is to at least verify that they are not responding or fill them with polishing oils. Sometimes, "glancing blow" rash spots will basically go away as they are filled/covered through the process of compounding, polishing and waxing, leaving only a small imperceptible crater behind, if that. Very small dot chips are also rather easy to hide with a paint pen and/or fine arts brush.

Other times, chips are deeper or wider, of course, such as the ones found on hoods from direct rock impacts, and they have to be filled using additional techniques like layered paint/clear drops and then sanding. Again, there are many threads here on those topics led by MOL's Mike Stoops and others. Chip repair is challenging and rewarding, and even if you don't do a perfect fill on a particular spot, you've at least protected the metal underneath and the surrounding paint, gotten some practice, and the spot might never really be noticed by other people, at least not like the white on black spot would be!

I just have one question though. What exactly did I do wrong here. I noticed this as I was finishing up. The pad became concave. Can this be corrected ? I washed it by hand and it is drying so I'll see tomorrow if it returns to its normal flat position.

I don't mean to crow, so pardon me, but this is one reason I gave up on foam. There's the concave deformation as the pad gets squashed and is retained by the backing plate, but also, I can see it's chewed up, yet you just got the kit and haven't used it for that many hours, I imagine. Any roughness on the surface that wasn't clayed away can tear on the foam because it's too delicate - and that's the point. The pad will still be effective for a time, but still. It's not necessarily your fault. Foam simply has limits, particularly the thick pads, and the picture shows it. If foam pads were like a buck or less and reliably available from local stores, who would care, but they're costly and have to be ordered. SMH. Been there, done that.

Nevertheless, your progress is looking awesome! You seem to have taken to this very well, and I'm excited for you. The hood is looking sick already! Yes, the whiteish chips would be overpowered by such a bright reflection shot, and I can also see the dust from the compounding

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Thanks Top Gear once I deal with these 'spots' the car should really look great. Then it should just be a matter of maintaining it.



OK guys, for what it's worth I tried to get a few macro shots. But as Im sure you know they are very hard.

The imperfections/chips are of varying depth from what seems almost level with the surface to very slightly below. Along with a few that are deeper.
All that was above the surface seems to be gone. And most are very small in size and barely palpable.

I went out and got a magnifying glass to actually be able to determine depth and such. And even with that it is hard to tell.


What are my choices and what do you suggest ?

1. Continue DA
2. Microfiber Pads
3. Paint Touch-up Kit
4. Wet Sand
5. Repaint
6. ???

Along with other ideas I would like to try the Dr ColorChip. It was reviewed here on MOL and seems Newb-friendly. Any thoughts on this system....

Micheal Stoop spoke positively about it. "We've seen it in action here outside our offices and, when done right, it's a pretty darn remarkable system"

Thanks again....

[davey g-force]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

DA'ing, especially with foam, can sometimes be a waste of energy in regard to some defects, and sometimes sandpaper (or a rotary, or chip repair) is needed. These are facts.

Yes true, no argument there.

If you don't want people to learn such facts because you think of them as "newbies", then lobby MOL to have all threads here removed or password protected

LOL that's a bit drastic isn't it? There is NO ISSUE with people learning about advanced techniques. It's just dangerous to suggest that inexperienced people resort to such techniques since (as you know) such techniques can easily lead to people ruining their paint, requiring a respray.

dealing with anything but foam pads, M205, and Ultimate Wax, which seems to be the advice so often argued here.

Not sure what those three products have to do with anything?

If you think a rock chip or other deep defects can be repaired with a DA foam pad, do tell,

Well some "deep defects" can be repaired, depending on how deep and how hard (and thick) the paint is. But otherwise no, I never suggested to try and repair rock chips with just a DA.

I think people who come here for help are allowed to freely read MOL and learn about other various techniques as they're ready to learn about them.

Absolutely. But they should also be warned that some advanced techniques should not be tried for the first time on a car they care about.

Mike Stoops and others have some great threads on sanding and chip repair.

They sure do. And most, if not all such threads contain a disclaimer or warning about telling inexperienced people to beware.

[davey g-force]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Thanks Top Gear once I deal with these 'spots' the car should really look great. Then it should just be a matter of maintaining it.



OK guys, for what it's worth I tried to get a few macro shots. But as Im sure you know they are very hard.

The imperfections/chips are of varying depth from what seems almost level with the surface to very slightly below. Along with a few that are deeper.
All that was above the surface seems to be gone. And most are very small in size and barely palpable.

I went out and got a magnifying glass to actually be able to determine depth and such. And even with that it is hard to tell.


What are my choices and what do you suggest ?

1. Continue DA
2. Microfiber Pads
3. Paint Touch-up Kit
4. Wet Sand
5. Repaint
6. ???

Along with other ideas I would like to try the Dr ColorChip. It was reviewed here on MOL and seems Newb-friendly. Any thoughts on this system....

Micheal Stoop spoke positively about it. "We've seen it in action here outside our offices and, when done right, it's a pretty darn remarkable system"

Looks like they are definitely chips of some sort.

At this stage, I would wipe down with IPA to ensure any wax / polish residue is removed from inside the chips, then use the Dr Colorchip system. It's designed specifically for this issue.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Davey, I hear you, but I think the warnings are in over-abundance, with plenty of risk-averse, downright paranoid, advice on this site. Even in my posts, which I do not actually need to defend to you, include adequate warnings and context. We're all big kids, here, and I doubt anyone is going to start grinding their paint with 100-grit down to bare metal just because Top Gear mentioned the word "sandpaper". Good grief

Discussing real solution options is not endorsing wild abandon of basic precautions. Likewise, no one should presume we are in any way responsible for their results. New people want answers, not fear and panic. That's why they are here asking questions. Sometimes the answer, as it is in this very thread, involves something other than a finishing pad and the "least aggressive" liquid meme. That will do absolutely nothing for rock chips, although it may very well fix a number of his other defects, for sure.

Anyway, wow, NYShine, are those first two shots yours? Amazing closeups. The last shot definitely looks like the road rash rock chips we're discussing...and gosh...lots of them My advice is to finish your DA work as if they weren't there. As I said, it's unlikely we can fix craters by compounding and polishing, regardless of product, as we'll just remove too much clear. After you're done removing swirls and the other shallow and surface defects that may come out, finish with some polish and wax. Then you can use the Dr. Color Chip or paint pen products as solutions. As you can see from your first two shots, you will use chip repair techniques to fill those craters and then blend them into the surrounding level of clear/paint.

In fact, this afternoon, this discussion got me motivated to get out and touch-up some of the latest rash spots on my car, too. I just got back from working with a number of paint chips using a paint pen (one of the areas when black is easier than other colors is in spot-matching). On some larger craters, I dry-sanded the resulting paint blob put in with the paint pen using 1500 and 3000 sandpaper, and very little finger pressure, then polished it all out with an MF Cutting Disc and D300. 2 hours and I'm done. It's just not that big of a deal. Yet, I don't mean to imply it's easy or intuitive, as I've practiced it. I'm getting better, but still have room for improvement. I often read threads here and elsewhere, and have previous experiences with paints and sanding as well.

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

As Eldorado pointed out and I pointed out these are not fixable other than a repaint. No touch up paint is going to fix these as they are under the clear coat.

Rock chips can be touched up.

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

A trick you can/may try to make the 'white spots' less visible is to do a gentle IPA wipe over that

area. This will help to remove left over product (compound, polish) from the divots.

Afterwards, using a non-whitening wax helps also.

Just to add, you are DOING A GOOD JOB there...keep it up.

Bill

Looks like they are definitely chips of some sort.

At this stage, I would wipe down with IPA to ensure any wax / polish residue is removed from inside the chips, then use the

Dr Colorchip system. It's designed specifically for this issue.

Thanks Bill and Dave, I did do the wipe down. Unfortunately there was little to no improvement. They are still very white.
So I'm assuming there is still product in there (?)

It did though produce a slight dull haze over the area. Is that normal ? I'll try again and see if that makes any difference.

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Anyway, wow, NYShine, are those first two shots yours? Amazing closeups. The last shot definitely looks like the road rash rock chips we're discussing...and gosh...lots of them My advice is to finish your DA work as if they weren't there. As I said, it's unlikely we can fix craters by compounding and polishing, regardless of product, as we'll just remove too much clear. After you're done removing swirls and the other shallow and surface defects that may come out, finish with some polish and wax. Then you can use the Dr. Color Chip or paint pen products as solutions. As you can see from your first two shots, you will use chip repair techniques to fill those craters and then blend them into the surrounding level of clear/paint.

In fact, this afternoon, this discussion got me motivated to get out and touch-up some of the latest rash spots on my car, too. I just got back from working with a number of paint chips using a paint pen (one of the areas when black is easier than other colors is in spot-matching). On some larger craters, I dry-sanded the resulting paint blob put in with the paint pen using 1500 and 3000 sandpaper, and very little finger pressure, then polished it all out with an MF Cutting Disc and D300. 2 hours and I'm done. It's just not that big of a deal. Yet, I don't mean to imply it's easy or intuitive, as I've practiced it. I'm getting better, but still have room for improvement. I often read threads here and elsewhere, and have previous experiences with paints and sanding as well.

Top Gear yes I'm hoping it's mostly road rash as I believe that can be addressed with the Dr Colorchip system. But yea like you said 'lots of them'! And as Guz pointed out there are still other issues to deal with that are "not fixable other than a repaint". Although Im wondering if that means wet sanding and repainting the area or a total repaint of the hood.

I'm thinking about how to proceed. I will as you said finish up my DA work. I'll be switching back to UC since the rest of the car isn't that bad. I started with UC as I wanted to go safely but I realized I wasn't getting anywhere. And didn't think it would be good to be running the machine over the same areas for long periods of time. Even though the M105 is more aggressive I only needed one quick pass to get a decent result. And having done a test spot first it seemed fine. I was very concerned about the clear coat though and thought that was the best choice. But now Im sure UC will be more than sufficient to finish with.

Now you mentioned to "finish with some polish and wax. Then you can use the Dr. Color Chip" and I was thinking should I compound, polish, wax and then Dr Chip, or should I compound, polish, Dr Chip and then lastly Wax. Will the wax (I'll be using Megs UW) affect the adhesion of the paint. And for that matter will the polish pose a problem as well ?

I'm not sure as to the best sequence to follow ? Also are all three actually a concern as they may 'fill in' the chips to some degree or another prior to the Dr Chip touch-up.

And lastly as Bill had pointed out "using a non-whitening wax helps also". If I wax, polish or whatever thereafter will I just be putting myself back to square one if the products adhere again to the chips. The Dr Chip probably wont fully fill in the chips and thereby leave room for future products I use to once again fill them in turning them 'white'. Since you've done 'chip repair' what has been your experience with this ? Especially since we both have Black cars. Would a black 'colored' wax be more appropriate ?



If you get a chance can you take some shots of those paint chip repairs you did and post them ? I'd like to see that.
I've been watching tons of videos on all types of techniques. Megs has a lot of great videos, and AMMO (?) has also been very informative.

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

As Eldorado pointed out and I pointed out these are not fixable other than a repaint. No touch up paint is going to fix these as they are under the clear coat.

Guz, what can I do if anything to address this ? And when you say repaint, are you referring to just the imperfections or a full repaint of the hood ?
Would wet sanding work in this situation ?

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

full repaint of the hood

This is what I am referring to.

Would wet sanding work in this situation ?

Maybe. But if they are too deep or you mess up you are in an even worse position. Either live with them or repaint the hood.