Suggestions on Avoiding Dealer Installed Swirls

[BJClarke001]

Rusty, 2hotford, RamAirV1 and Accumulator,

Thanks for your comments and I really respect what is being said.

Let me ask this then:

1) I have both Deep Crystal and NXT Car Wash. Would this be in line with what #00 Wash is?

2) I have the Deep Crystal Polish (Step 2). Would this be milder or more aggresive then #80 Speed Glaze? And, if I needed the #80, can this be done by hand? Remember, I am a wanna be DA Owner.

OK. Now let me tell about the Clay.

IT WORKED ! !


Funny thing is, when I first bought the truck and cleaned it with the hood open, the top of the Chrome Grill (part not exposed when Hood is closed) had almost like water spots with cloudyness to it. I tried cleaning it over time and it never came clean. I thought that somehow, Ford found a way to minimize the chrome process in that area to save them $$$. Anyways, while I was cleaning the overspray with the Clay, I also did this area too. AND IT CLEANED it all away (Whatever the heck it was). So..................

To all of you that read the piles and piles of threads on here on MOL, about claying, I just need to say it works as they ALL brag about it. You work the area and you can feel and hear the clay dragging on the contaminated surface and actually feel it too. Then, it becomes smooth. Ya check your area to make sure it is clean and move on to the next area (Use QD as a Lube and also to clean the area). If I can do this, I know anyone else can. Next week, I am going to do my whole car. I would do it today but the temp outside right now is 99 deg.. Thats a little to hot to be out there in my book.

[RamAirV1]

Originally posted by BJClarke001
Rusty, 2hotford, RamAirV1 and Accumulator,

Thanks for your comments and I really respect what is being said.

Let me ask this then:

1) I have both Deep Crystal and NXT Car Wash. Would this be in line with what #00 Wash is?

I don't know about that one for sure. I am sure that #00 is body shop safe, but I'm not sure about the others. That's a question for Mike or Tim.

2) I have the Deep Crystal Polish (Step 2). Would this be milder or more aggresive then #80 Speed Glaze? And, if I needed the #80, can this be done by hand? Remember, I am a wanna be DA Owner.

#80 is more aggressive than DC#2, which is a polish only, not a cleaner/polish. If you use #80 you can probably skip the DC#2. #80 can be used by hand, but best swirl removal is obtained with machine application.

OK. Now let me tell about the Clay.

IT WORKED ! !

No doubt about it, detailing clay was a major advancement! That is my first choice for rail dust, small tar spots, and stubborn tree sap. I was hesitant to try the clay on my last tar removal project because the globs were so huge! Who knows, it might have worked!

I am tempted to get some Body Sovlvent from the Detailer Line, but it only comes in gallon sizes and I'm already contemplating #21 Sealant, which also comes in gallons.

RamAirV1

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by BJClarke001
1) I have both Deep Crystal and NXT Car Wash. Would this be in line with what #00 Wash is?

I'm thinking that either of these are ok, but better ask Mike, or someone else about it to be sure.........Or you could call the customer reps Monday and ask them.

Originally posted by BJClarke001
2) I have the Deep Crystal Polish (Step 2). Would this be milder or more aggresive then #80 Speed Glaze? And, if I needed the #80, can this be done by hand? Remember, I am a wanna be DA Owner.

Deep Crystal #2 is a pure polish and has no abrasive power at all, so that makes it milder to use.

According to the bottle instructions, #80 can be used by hand.

You could use DC#2 instead of #80 IMO, but I'll let some of the others chime in here and have their say about it.

[RamAirV1]

Originally posted by Accumulator
RamAirV1- Every now and then you find a dealer where the body/paint guys know their stuff. Rare, but it happens. The guys at Stoddard Imports (Porsche/Audi dealer) are doing all my work these days; they're better than the independent shops I had been using. But yeah, most dealership body/paint shops do terrible work Sounds like BJClarke001 might've found an OK place.

I am in complete agreement with that statement.

BJClarke001- Just a note on the use of #80- and I don't mean to repeat myself (I've been posting this quite a bit here lately ). The diminishing abrasives in #80 are very mild, but I've had one case where they were too aggressive for a fresh repaint. If you're worried about the warranty, I'd use something without abrasives *just in case*. You can always use the #80 later if you pick up some light marring you want to eliminate. I've found the protection from *any* fresh-paint-safe product really oughta be refreshed after every wash, and I never noticed any real differences in the durability/protection of #80 and my fave #5.

You could always use #80 by hand, making it less aggressive than by PC. Maybe you have to wait a certain amount of time to use even #80 with fresh paint. I am just speculating though.

The #5 is easier/faster to use, as you don't have to break down the diminishing abrasives.

Sheesh, I'm a real proselytizer for #5 Substitute any other "pure polish" that you can find as #5 isn't too common.

I used to use #5 back in the 80s and really liked it. I could not get the hang of using #7 back then. I got away from using #5 because I could no longer find it anywhere, and I didn't know about PBE shops back then. How do you think the #5 compares to #7 and #81 in terms of gloss and depth?

RamAirV1

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Brad,

I read the below post Saturday after the Austin Healey Detailing Class which was a powerful fun class that ran very long and I just didn't get a chance to reply until now. Another lightening storm took out the Internet cable connection till this morning, so it's been a lot of catch-up work so far today.

Originally posted by BJClarke001
Well, it is Saturday afternoon and I gots the truck back. Here is the deal:

1) They did a fabulous job. Blending AND NO BUFFING took place.

c0oL

2) The shop told me not to put any wax on the finish to let the Clear Coat Cure for 30 days. They said (and this is where you guys chime in) that the wax will bond into the clear if you don't let it cure and making a mess (cloudy) of the clear coat.

If everyone reading this thread will read the below article, I think you'll get the idea that most painters are busy and are not going to take the time to explain in detail what's taking place with your fresh paint, so they give you a story to give you direction and hope that's enough so they can move on. They probably don't understand that guys like Brad are hanging out on the Meguiar's Online Discussion Forum and are completely up to speed on all topics of detailing including the care of fresh paint. Here's the article.

Paint Needs to Breathe


I don't know about wax causing fresh paint to become hazy or cloudy, maybe it could happen, but the real issue is sealing the paint before any solvents, additives, or other ingredients used in the freshly mixed paint have a chance to outgas. See the above referenced article for a thorough explanation.

The big picture is he's right and that you should not apply any kind of wax or any kind of paint sealant onto the paint until he as said it's okay. Until that time it is completely safe to use a Meguiar's pure polish such as Deep Crystal Polish or M81 Hand Polish over the course of the next 30 days and if it were my fresh paint, I would apply and remove a pure polish. FWIW.

3) The shop also said, not to use ANY wash soap of any kind (I even asked, NOT NXT CAR WASH?) for the month. This one bothers me. They said to use just plain water. This alarms me a little because I would imagine instilling scratches with a wash mitt without the soap barrier. What do you guys think.

Again, most painters, (or anyone in the paint shop facilities, manager, painters helper, owner, etc.), for the sake of time and simplicity and to also protect themselves and there work, are going to give you the Joe Consumer canned recommendations which will often times include only using plain water to wash your fresh paint. As I stated above, these guys are totally unaware that Brad is way past the average Joe Consumer when it comes to paint care.

Here's the deal...

Again, the painter is hedging his bets by telling you to use plain water because in one aspect it's completely safe in that there is no chance for any extra ingredients that could interfere with outgassing, let alone anything else that could affect their work, (the fresh paint), after washing. So they give that less than adequate advise to everyone.

That said, a quality car wash offers at a minimum lubricity to increase slip during the washing process, this will help to reduce the potential for micro-marring. Besides this benefit, a quality car wash soap also helps to safely clean the paint by removing dirt, dust and other contaminants that you don't want on your fresh paint or your cured paint.

M0016 Hi-Tech Wash is a body shop safe car wash and lubricant for wet-sanding. This product contains no ingredients that will interfere with paint adhesion, or outgassing and would be an excellent choice for washing both the fresh paint and the cured paint. M6201 Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner is also a body shop safe wash in our Professional Line. I would whole heartedly recommend either of these two car washes for your fresh paint and especially over the option of using only plain water.

4) The only problem I do have is that they got overspray on the Plastic Chrome Grill. The shop couldn't do anything today for me and they offered for me to bring it back when the body shop was open. I told them I would try to remove it myself. Therefore, my question is; I have PlastX, can I use this to clean it? Or, should I get some clay?

Anyways, I had a lot of anxiety this whole week with getting the paint job. Other then the overspray on the grill, it looks very very good (Like New). I just can't wait till the clear coat cures so I can get a waxing. Thanks all for your input on this. It really helped the whole process and I never really felt alone doing it because of your help.

I read where you posted you took care of this yourself.

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by RamAirV1
..I used to use #5 back in the 80s and really liked it. I could not get the hang of using #7 back then. I got away from using #5 because I could no longer find it anywhere, and I didn't know about PBE shops back then. How do you think the #5 compares to #7 and #81 in terms of gloss and depth?..

I've only used #81 once or twice, so I'd better confine any comparisons to #7 and #3.

I find that #7 looks the best of all these, if (maybe a big "if") it's used right. And with certain single-stages it's my hands-down choice. FWIW, I bet that hardly *anyone* could ever tell the difference between #3 and #7 on basecoat/clear and I find #3 easier to use.

Some people probably *could* see a difference between those polishes and #5. #5 just isn't as rich so you don't quite get the same gloss and depth. For me, and for this application (curing paint) the differences in looks are outweighed by the user-friendly nature of the product. In cases where I'm using the pure polish on *cured* paint, I still use the #5 in almost every case at least on b/c (as in all but once in the last decade ) just because I like using it so much. The way it truly dries (as opposed to the "skinning" you get with #7 for instance) seems to make it a good choice for use on b/c paint but that's just my subjective impression.

Considering that Meguiar's will refund the purchae price of a product that doesn't satisfy you, I'd sure give the #5 a try and see what *you* think. With #3, #5, #7, 3M IHG and a few other similar products on the shelf, I reach for the #5 every time.

You could always use #80 by hand, making it less aggressive than by PC. Maybe you have to wait a certain amount of time to use even #80 with fresh paint.

I figure that even when applied by hand, the diminishing abrasives are what they are before they break down. Yeah, gentle work by hand will abrade less than aggressive work by PC, but you know what I mean. I'm not at all "abrasives-phobic" but this is one area where I don't use them unless I need them.

This *was* just one isolated incident, and that paintjob was troublesome with other products too, but it sure got my attention. Unless the paint really *needs* correction, I'd just hold off on any abrasives for a little while (these problems with #80 were after almost three weeks!). When correcting really fresh paint, I've learned to keep some awfully mild abrasives on hand.

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
M0016 Hi-Tech Wash is a body shop safe car wash and lubricant for wet-sanding. This product contains no ingredients that will interfere with paint adhesion, or outgassing and would be an excellent choice for washing both the fresh paint and the cured paint. M6201 Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner is also a body shop safe wash in our Professional Line. I would whole heartedly recommend either of these two car washes for your fresh paint and especially over the option of using only plain water.

I think I mentioned this on Show Car Garage, but are the other shampoos, like Gold Class, NXT, and Deep Crystal ok for fresh paint?

I think you said "yes", but I just wanted to be sure.

[BJClarke001]

Since it has now been thirty days (almost) since the paint job that originally drove this thread, I will provide just a simple update to it (maybe closure?).

In this thread, I asked a lot of questions about washing and polishing based on “The Painter Guy’s” statements about putting nothing on the fresh paint including car wash. I had major concerns about washing with “nothing but water” on my vehicle. This thread basically unraveled the fact that Megs Car Wash stuff can be safely be used on Fresh Paint. And I did use it (NXT Car Wash to be exact)

Also on this thread, we also talked about putting a polish on the fresh paint to provide some form of protection to just exposed raw paint. I ended up using Deep Crystal Polish (Step 2). It worked GREAT and kicked the shine up a few notches too. In addition, it gave me the peace of mind knowing I had some protection on there opposed to absolutely nothing but paint.

Last night (9/7/05), the fresh paint was 29 days old. I bit the bullet and made an executive decision and opted to not wait till the 30th day to wax. And so, I waxed the Explorer twice. One Coat with Gold Class and the second with NXT wax. I would have done two coats of NXT but I didn’t have the time for the first coat to cure. So, I opted to use the GC first. All I can say is it shines like mad crazy. This weekend, I will go for the two coats of the NXT since I will have the time. I know some of you think I am nuts and why didn’t I just wait till the weekend to wax. If you knew me, I counted each day from the 30 day mark to wax this thing (and cut it short by one day). Oh – well.

Thanks to all responses above that helped me get thru it all.

[Mike Phillips]

Do I have to?


Okay... here goes....

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[BJClarke001]

LOL. Okay, I promise to post some pics this weekend. I guess in some ways, I didn't do that (pics) because it already was a new vehicle and so my new learned skills were not going to be obvious yet. But, since you insist, I will this weekend so I can brag about the two coats of NXT too.

[BJClarke001]

As promised.

I am not happy with the quality of the photos. I used my own program to reduce their original size. The full blown versions look alot better for some reason. Some of you are saying "Sure they do, what ever you say Brad". But this is my first attempt on getting photos on here.

This is the hood that had the most of the damage from the accident where fence parts with nails came across the hood. This included dings, dents and scratches:




The next photo shows the side where the front fender and the two doors were repainted. The rear doors paint was blended:




and the next photo shows the side where the fender and just the front door was painted:




Today, I re-waxed with NXT (sorry, one coat today) and of course it came out great. And, I promise to do something about the quality of my pictures next time too.

[rusty bumper]

From what I could tell, it looks like they did a good job.

Nice reflection on the hood there!

Looks like a nice shady area to detail under too.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by BJClarke001
I used my own program to reduce their original size. The full blown versions look alot better for some reason. Some of you are saying "Sure they do, what ever you say Brad". But this is my first attempt on getting photos on here.

Hi Brad,

I originally discovered Easy Thumbnails when looking for program to create Avatars that wouldn't distort the photo in any way and Easy Thumbnails works great for this, but I also discovered it's great for resizing photos for any size. Best of all it's free.

How to resize your photos using Easy Thumbnails - Free software!


One of the guys at yesterday's Pacific Coast Corvette club brought a 1960 Corvette that I buffed out over the summer to the class and I snapped the below photo and then turned it into an Avatar for him.








I'm not actually very good with photo software as I find it difficult to use, I don't own Photoshop, but I do have a lesser version called PhotoShop Elements that came with my camera and I think Easy Thumbnails works better and is easier to use to resize photos.

Check it out in the link above as I included a little tutorial on where to change settings for trouble free, distortion free, accurately resized images, (which I do a lot of for the forum).