Explain Paint being fed?

[Alex7938]

a question for the scientifically minded people here.

a forum im a member of has someone who is very anti clean cars

and someone was asking about faded red paint, when someone mentioned feeding the paint the sceptic posted this:

"I am unconvinced that paint can be 'fed'

Pseudo-technical b****x in my opinion"

can someone explain this to me so i can cut'n'paste the reply and also learn myself for future reference

tia

Alex

[Murr1525]

Well, cutting and pasting is never the best idea.. much better to understand the idea and use your own words.

But, what I assume was meant by 'feeding the paint ' is that a good polish will replenish some fo the oils that are lost from the surface of the paint.

It isnt like you rub a polish on, and it penetrates all the way to the metal, through clear coat, and base coat. It just restores the oils right at the surface, where they are lost. When they are lost, that bits of paint will flake off, exposing paint underneath. If this happens over and over and over, then you are down to the basecoat, then primer, then metal.

But keeping the concentration of oils at the surface high prevents the oils down in the paint from diffusing to the surface, and the paint wont get a chance to dry out. Sort of a concentration-driveing force, where stuff moves from high to low concentrations.

On very old/dry paint, adding a good coat of polish will help make the paint more workable as well.

[Murr1525]

And how can someone be anti-clean cars, exactly? I understand not being a detailing freak like some of us.. (not me of course)... ... but still, I dont think a layer of mud counts as a protective coating.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by Murr1525
And how can someone be anti-clean cars, exactly? I understand not being a detailing freak like some of us.. (not me of course)... ... but still, I dont think a layer of mud counts as a protective coating.

Yes but "CLAY" is good. Put a nice layer of clay on it. It would likely be impervious to most anything.

[Alex7938]

Originally posted by Murr1525
And how can someone be anti-clean cars, exactly? I understand not being a detailing freak like some of us.. (not me of course)... ... but still, I dont think a layer of mud counts as a protective coating.

lets just say this person and a few others have locked horns on a few occasions before, on more than detailing.

It isnt like you rub a polish on, and it penetrates all the way to the metal, through clear coat, and base coat. It just restores the oils right at the surface, where they are lost. When they are lost, that bits of paint will flake off, exposing paint underneath. If this happens over and over and over, then you are down to the basecoat, then primer, then metal.

i'm not to sure i understand this bit fully?

[Mike Phillips]

Read this...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...&threadid=7058


But note this, some people you're going to run into on discussion forums are always going to try to pick a part every little thing in an effort not to have a legitimate discussion, but to pick every little thing apart.

Chances are very good the person taking issue with the word, feed, uses someone else's products that don't include products like Meguiar's pure polishes in their line, so it's never going to matter if you can or cannot explain the way Meguiar's uses the term/word feed because they just want to argue.

When Meguiar's states our products feed the paint, we don't mean our products literally feed paint as though paint needs to eat food, we mean the polishing oils in our products that have been making cars look beautiful longer than most products on the market today, add clarity and richness of color to paint, in short they make the paint look good.

If you're a car guy, or a car girl, then this is important to you as you want your car's finish to look it's best.

If you some self-appointed guru trying to make a name for yourself then you dance on pin heads and put the focus on things like a word, and not the results.

In the end.... arguing with some person over little things like a descriptive word is an effort in futility and over time their credibility is diminished as their posting history will prove.

Hope this helps...

[Murr1525]

Well, skin is a fantastic comparison to use with paint, so let me try and explain that way.

I believe you have about 3 layers of skin, and there are about 3 layers of paint (clear, base coat, primer).

If your skin is very dry, all of the top layer of skin isnt flaking off, just a little on the very surface. And the moisturizer you put on your skin moisturizes the surface, not all 3 layers.

Similarly, the very surface paint is what dries out, and then will oxidize, flake, etc. And the Polish simply restores oils to the surface.

As skin dries out, the entire first layer doesnt flake off. Just a few cells. But as it keeps going, it keeps getting worse. Same with paint, at first a few molecules dry out and flake off. Then more and more, until it is through an entire layer.

If skin or paint get to dry, they will crack. On skin, this is fixable, but with lots of moisturizer, medicated cream, etc. On paint, it is ruined.


Does that help any more? If not, I can try again

[Alex7938]

Originally posted by Murr1525

Does that help any more? If not, I can try again

much better now thanks


Thanks too Mike,

In the end.... arguing with some person over little things like a descriptive word is an effort in futility and over time their credibility is diminished as their posting history will prove.

i know all about that, but thats another story

[rfinkle2]

rubbin' hoagies on my paint made the finish hard to buff. j/k...

[Alex7938]

WOW, just read through the threads.

everything becomes clear, although i dont understand all the science, i get what is being said.

Thanks Guys

[Murr1525]

Well, if you understand the idea of Hot always flowing towards Cold, you understand the idea of concentration driving forces. (if that is indeed a major factor, which I think it is).

If you have a lot of polishing oils at the surface, (high concentration), then the oils inside the paint (lower concentration) will never flow past them ,and thus out of the paint.

By keeping a higher concentration at the surface, you will always hold the oils inside the paint.

[Hook]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Read this...

When Meguiar's states our products feed the paint, we don't mean our products literally feed paint as though paint needs to eat food, we mean the polishing oils in our products that have been making cars look beautiful longer than most products on the market today, add clarity and richness of color to paint, in short they make the paint look good.

Now this brings up something I'vw wonderd about often. Since most (all?) cars today have clear coats, I assume that all of these products only "operate" on the clear coat. I understand how this could affect clarity, but how do products do things like make the paint richer, or improve the depth, etc.

To my uneducarted mind, it seems like some of these would require getting to the base coat, itself.

Any insight appreciated.

--
Hook

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Hook
Now this brings up something I've wondered about often. Since most (all?) cars today have clear coats, I assume that all of these products only "operate" on the clear coat. I understand how this could affect clarity, but how do products do things like make the paint richer, or improve the depth, etc.

To my uneducated mind, it seems like some of these would require getting to the base coat, itself.

Any insight appreciated.

--
Hook

I think if you examine many of my posts on this subject,

You can find a list of my posts here,

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sea...earchid=279121


You'll see that the way I write about this is to say,

Meguiar's polishes add richness of color to non-clear coat finishes and optical clarity to clear coats to enable your eyes to see the color coat under the clear coat.


Not always as that's a lot more typing, but I do understand the nature of many on discussion forums is that of the AR type personality and people like this like to drill down deep when discussing the minutia of products and process.

Clear coats when new and untouched are very impermeable with time and wear and tear they become more permeable, as they become more permeable they react better to pure polishes.

While some would say it this way,

"A pure polish doesn't always dramatically change the appearance of a brand new clear coat"

It must be remembered that a brand new clear coat should look pretty good to start with... it is brand new isn't it?


Things to think about... good questions however...

[Mosca]

put the focus on things like a word, and not the results.

The car either shines or it does not shine, and everything else is posturing.

[rusty bumper]

I must have spent an hour reading all of the associated links with this thread, and I have to believe that the T. S. oils do penetrate into the paint to some extent.

Whether that means the oils make it to cellular level of the paint or not, I don't know, but I would like to think that they do.

I just find it hard to believe that Meguiar's T. S. oils just sit on top of the paint without imparting something to it like some hinted to on the other forum.

Just my opinion here.