Polishes for minor defect removal using PC?

[mpmiller37]

I've been trying to get some opinions on good polishes to use with a PC for minor defect removal that are also user friendly. Some have suggested that Meg polishes work better with rotarys and not PC. Its also been suggested that Meg polishes cover up many defects instead of removing. Other than Meg #80, favorites have been PoorBoys SSR line, and Menzerna. Please offer comments as I'm a newbie to PC polishing and have minor defects to remove on black car.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Polishes for minor defect removal using PC?

Originally posted by mpmiller37
I've been trying to get some opinions on good polishes to use with a PC for minor defect removal that are also user friendly. Some have suggested that Meg polishes work better with rotarys and not PC.

I've read this to by some on the other detailing discussion forum, remember who posts what and over time you can get a feel for their credibility.

Its also been suggested that Meg polishes cover up many defects instead of removing.

Well the things you've read by these others is just their opinion and while everyone is entitled to an opinion, that doesn't make everyone's opinion right.

Other than Meg #80, favorites have been PoorBoys SSR line, and Menzerna.

I have both of these, and we're not going to slam any product on this forum, suffice to say I would and have taken our compounds, paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes up against these products on black paint and I've never seen anything that would make me feel like quiting my job here and looking for work for another polish manufacture.

Please offer comments as I'm a newbie to PC polishing and have minor defects to remove on black car.

Well mpmiller37,

I read through your posting history here,


Posting History on Meguiar's Online

And over on the other detailing discussion forum here,

Posting History on Autopia

These three threads stood out...

Compare Zaino with NXT or #21 ?
Popular polishes that perform with PC
Menzerna Intensive versus Meg #80 ?



I commend you on really doing your homework! You appear to have some problems with what you are defining as fine swirl marks on your black car. You want to remove them without instilling any new swirls in the process.

You've actually even tried to find a Professional Detailer on this forum and the other forum to do this for you and to date you've had no luck.

Before we post any further on the topic of removing swirls, let's make sure we're on the same page when it comes to the future of your car's finish after the swirls have been removed, and the reality is this,


First, if your black car is a daily driver and you're touching it often, (by touch it this can include washing it and wiping it with something), then the reality is whatever wax/LSP you choose, it's going to wear off as that's the nature of the beast. Thus you and I have to re-apply these types of products to maintain any previous level of finish achieved.

There is no one time cure all product.


Second, if your car is a daily driver and your or someone is washing it and wiping it down, even with the most careful techniques and the best products, clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive, you will find that swirls keep re-occurring no matter what you do outside of storing the car in a garage or a museum.

I have a black Honda Pilot and if I want it to be swirl free enough to pass inspection by my peers then I must maintain the finish. Sometimes this means applying a coat of wax, or some type of paint protectant, (Sal calls his Z2 a polish and this tends to cause the AR people to want to argue over semantics), as any good paint protectant leaves something behind on the surface and if you believe this then you have to admit that all waxes or paint protectant fill to some degree because if they're leaving something behind, i.e. a coating, then they are laying on top of the surface and by definition this means they are filling, or I must use something like one of our cleaner/polishes and remove swirls before I apply my LSP.

Point being, maintaining a swirl-free finish on a daily driver is an ongoing process, not a one time fix.

As far as choosing and using a swirl mark remover using a dual action polisher, a skilled professional can make any of the products you've listed perform as well as many of the products you've have not listed perform.

It all comes down to technique.

Each Saturday I teach a class on how to remove swirls and scratches because that's what most people want to learn when it comes to creating a Wow! effect to their car, at these classes similar patterns have emerged over the last two years and that is the comments made by people after they see ScratchX demonstrated and the dual action polisher demonstrated when used to remove defects.

The focal point of comments is the technique used for the defect removal process. It's all about technique. You can give two people the same tools and products, give each of them one half of swirled out hood and one person will effectively remove the swirls while the other will not.

What's the difference?

Technique.


That I think is the point that many people, (members posting on forums), miss. Instead of focusing on technique or lack thereof, they play Kingmaker with their favorite product. This confuses some people, (possibly yourself), as you read these opinion on these different forums. Yet a true professional can make any quality product perform, at least perform to it's potential as not all products are created equal but most quality products can do the job they were designed to do when properly applied.


Meguiar's products work. This point has been prover for over 100 years. We can help you to choose the right Meguiar's product and use it correctly, but let's make sure our expectations are in check first. I've been doing this to long to understand that while most people teach you to first,

Evaluate the condition of the finish"

I've learned to first,

Evaluate your customer"


What are your expectations and your goals.

Can you take a picture of this black car of yours and share with us it's true condition? This will require getting some light on the finish and capturing the swirls with a camera.

We do this every Saturday, so we know it can be done.

[Mike Phillips]

As far as fillers, and covering up defects versus removing them, carefully read this thread...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8331

We will go above and beyond the call of duty to help you get the results you're looking for here on Meguiar's Online.

[mpmiller37]

I can see you have researched my posts very thouroughly and yes, I have also researched many products. I have an eye for detail and can appreciate the "perfect finish" which makes me wonder why I bought a black car. BUT, when Black is clean, there is nothing like it.

I have recently purchased a PC and a pad kit so I'm a newbie to PC polishing, and I have read at least 5 articles on PC techniques including the ones on this forum. I don't actually have swirls, but light scratches all over the car which can only be seen in sunlight or very close examination (I'll try to post pic next time i wash it). I'm never for bashing products, but I also don't have the time / money to try the top 5 products out there. I want to get the job done right, the first time (which I realize may not be possible, but why not try).

I tried to correct my defects with scratchX and #9 by hand, multiple times on hood and trunk with no success. Actually it cleaned up the surface a bit, but did not remove the light scratches. So now I have a PC and pad kit and believe I understand the technique, mentally anyway. So now I want to find the perfect polish combination to remove the defects and bring my black finish to a "pop". The car is 3 years old and the finish looks pretty good except for the scratches.

From this board, it appears that #80 is a favorite, possibly followed by #9 and then an LSP probably #21. Thoughts ?

BTW: I would love to come to a Meguiars class but I'm on the East Coast. Are you related to Lynn Phillips ? She answered some questions for me from another autocare site and has some good articles out there.

[SpoiledMan]

Yeah, he married Lynn!

[mpmiller37]

As for pictures of my defects, they are about the same as the black cars shown in the thread link you sent about the #80.
That thread had very useful information.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by mpmiller37
I can see you have researched my posts very thoroughly and yes, I have also researched many products. I have an eye for detail and can appreciate the "perfect finish" which makes me wonder why I bought a black car. BUT, when Black is clean, there is nothing like it.

We agree.

I have recently purchased a PC and a pad kit so I'm a newbie to PC polishing, and I have read at least 5 articles on PC techniques including the ones on this forum. I don't actually have swirls, but light scratches all over the car which can only be seen in sunlight or very close examination (I'll try to post pic next time i wash it).

If I read your posts correctly, these scratches would be from claying the car?

I'm never for bashing products, but I also don't have the time / money to try the top 5 products out there. I want to get the job done right, the first time (which I realize may not be possible, but why not try).

Our goal has been and always is to help people get the best results the first time from their time, money and efforts, so they don't have to do it a second time.

I tried to correct my defects with ScratchX and #9 by hand, multiple times on hood and trunk with no success. Actually it cleaned up the surface a bit, but did not remove the light scratches.

Two things about ScratchX,


1) It take the right technique to get good results.

2) Assuming you use good technique, if ScratchX doesn't work this would be an indicator that the scratches are too deep and/or the paint is too hard for a person with their single hand to remove enough paint to remove the scratch and often times it's a combination of both of these things, (depth and hardness).

So now I have a PC and pad kit and believe I understand the technique, mentally anyway. So now I want to find the perfect polish combination to remove the defects and bring my black finish to a "pop". The car is 3 years old and the finish looks pretty good except for the scratches.

I've never met anyone that regretted purchasing a dual action polisher, once you learn the correct technique you will love yours.

From this board, it appears that #80 is a favorite, possibly followed by #9 and then an LSP probably #21. Thoughts ?

M80 Speed Glaze is a fairly Bubba-Proof cleaner/polish. It's aggressive enough to remove light scratches and swirls out of most paint systems, but safe enough that most people, can do no harm with it. It's not always aggressive as some of the other products talked about on forums, but it is safe. When it's not aggressive enough then we offer our M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.

For people just starting out however, it is often times better to use two applications of M80 and really work the finish then it is to step over to a more aggressive product.

BTW: I would love to come to a Meguiar's class but I'm on the East Coast.

Yep, too long of a drive.

Are you related to Lynn Phillips ? She answered some questions for me from another auto care site and has some good articles out there.

We're not related, but we are married.

She is very knowledgeable in the area of car care and has a lot of hands-on experience to back up what she writes, she can walk the talk, so to speak.

Let me re-read your thread and see which pads you have and then we'll go from there. Are you hoping to do your detailing work this weekend?

Does your car have rubber or black plastic trim? Do you own any painters tape?

[mpmiller37]

The reason I think the scratches were from claying, is because I noticed them after I clayed the car (and waxed of course). I suppose it could have been from cheap towels (as they were cheap) but I have a hard time believing towels can scratch a car. As for scratchX, I read your article on usage and believe I used it correctly. The scratches cannot be felt with finger nail tip so they do not seem deep. My scratches are similar to the pictures of those black cars in the #80 thread so that product might do it. Yes, I have painters tape and read about taping up the trim. I've read everything it seems like. Its going to be all about product and technique at this point. After the #80 should I run another polish over it before the wax. I currently have #9 and your Finishing Polish (Deep Crystal step 2) I believe.

[Mike Phillips]

In most cases you can stop polishing after the M80 Speed Glaze and go right to wax.

On a few occasions, when working on extremely soft paints, we've seen a follow-up application using M82 or M09 improve the results even more.

You can always do a Test Spot using the #9 Swirl Remover 2.0 after the M80 and then inspect the spot, (small area about a foot squared), and see if there is enough improvement to warrant going over the entire car but I would say in most instances, most people can stop at the M80 and go straight to wax.

[the other pc]

Originally posted by mpmiller37
... but I have a hard time believing towels can scratch a car...

Trust me, once you've got her polished up real nice it will only take one swipe with a crummy towel to convince you.


PC.

[kellyinkc]

What's LSP???

Kelly

[mpmiller37]

LSP is the final wax or sealant you will put on the car for protection. It may stand for "Last Step Protection" but I could be wrong.

[kellyinkc]

I was thinking Liquid Surface Protection

kelly

[mpmiller37]

Correction, it stands for "Last Step Products".

[kellyinkc]

Ahhhh!!

Kelly