M85/m21

[mortenso]

Anyone tried the M85 with W8006/W9006 pad for cleaning and polishing and M21 with W9006 for waxing.

I have black metallic Mercedes that has just been painted. In 4 weeks time I want to polish and wax. Should I only wax it now and wait unit next year to polish?

[Rick McDonough]

With your Mercedes just being painted you will want to wait 60-90 days before putting any wax on that surface. You can use a polish immediately, but with after market paint jobs you need to wait for that paint to cure before applying a wax or sealant.

I would only use the #85 Diamond Cut Compound if you are working with some severe defects below the surface. If you are attempting to get rid of severe things I would probably use it in conjunction with one of our W-7006 Foam Cutting Pads. You can use the W-8006 Foam Polishing Pad, but it is more designed for minor surface imperfections, or to be used with pure polish.

For applying the #21 Synthetic Sealant you would want to use the W-9006 Foam Finishing Pad.

Rick

[mortenso]

Her is a picture of my Mercedes with fresh paint. The gloss is quite nice but I want it looking like a mirror and wetter. Would polishing with #80 Speed Glaze and W-8006 Foam Polishing Pad and topping with two layers of #21 Synthetic Sealant with 12 hours between layers do the trick?

Morten

[mortenso]

Her is the pic:

[mortenso]

The car is just painted but some how it manage to get some really nasty scratches on the front bumper
The scratches almost disappear when wetted. The paint is still white after wetting in a few places as can be seen in the photo.
How should I go about fixing this?



Scratches on front bumper:





Scratches on front bumper wetted:

[Rick McDonough]

Based on the picture, I would personally go with the #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish next (with a W-8006 pad). If the W-8006 isn't cutting it, step it up to the W-7006, but be careful since you are working with black (you don't want to put more swirls and scratches back into it). Hopefully, that will get it out. If there are areas that are grooved that you can feel, it may not do the trick (and in that case you will need to work with a high speed rotary and something more aggressive).

You can do #80 Speed glaze all over the whole car if you like, however, I typically stay away from paint cleaners unless I need them. If you are just looking to enhance the shine (and not get out defects below the surface) on the rest of the Mercedes then go with a pure polish/glaze like #7 Show Car Glaze. Then, seal it in with your #21 Synthetic Sealant.

You can do a couple of coats of the #21, but much after 2 or 3 it isn't worth you while as it will no longer adhere.

-Rick

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Just to add...

Meguiar's #85 Diamond Cut is for rotary buffer application only. Moreover, it was designed to be used with the W-4000 Wool Pad. Using it with the W-7006 can create a great deal of heat leading to buffer burns. Meg's #84 was designed to be used with the W-7006 Cutting Pad.

If you use #85 with the G100, it can scour the finish requiring a rotary to restore the gloss. Also, Meg's W-7006 Cutting Pad is for the rotary only. When used on the G100 it can haze the finish.

The most aggressive Meguiar's products that can be used with the G100 is the W-8006 Polishing Pad and the #83 DACP.

I would suggest using #80 and a W-8006 Polishing pad for the car itself.

However from your pictures, the scratches look quite deep. If you can feel them with your finger nail, and I suspect you can, then they may or may not be able to be removed depending on how deep the marring truly is.

As for #21, yes, it works very well being applied with the G100 and the W-9006 Pad.

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by mortenso

How should I go about fixing this?

Scratches on front bumper:



Scratches on front bumper wetted:

It kind of doesn't really matter what your scratches look like wet?

The important factor is how deep are they? You are limited as to what you can remove when it comes to scratches, by how much film build you have to work with.

Those scratches look deep unless they're just scuffs and mostly on the surface. The fix would be to first try to find out how they got there? If the damage was caused at the body shop then tell them it's not acceptable and they need to fix it. If these scratches are very deep at all then it's likely they cannot be simply buffed out.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: M85/m21

Originally posted by mortenso
Anyone tried the M85 with W8006/W9006 pad for cleaning and polishing and M21 with W9006 for waxing.

As 2hotford posted, Meguiar's doesn't recommend using M85, (or M84), with a dual action polisher as they are both formulated to be applied using a rotary buffer.

I have black metallic Mercedes that has just been painted. In 4 weeks time I want to polish and wax. Should I only wax it now and wait unit next year to polish?

A brand new paint job shouldn't need to have an aggressive compound used on it unless the the people at the shop where you had it painted are completely clueless and after painting it then proceeded to swirl it out for you, which believe it or not happens all the time, see this thread,

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7011

And cringe when we tell you that the below picture of the swirled out paint referenced in the above link is a Brand New Paint Job





As far as which products you should be using on your brand new paint job goes...

A brand new paint job, can be polished as soon as the paint is a day or two old, so if you like you can use a pure polish like our Deep Crystal Polish to polish.

Meguiar's recommends you follow your painter's recommendation as far as applying a wax to a new paint job. This is usually a waiting time of 30 days, some painters will tell you 60 days and even 90 days, if they tell you to wait a year, that's usually because they don't trust you to choose the right product and properly apply it and they know if you do noting but wash the paint with water, because modern clear coat paints are incredibly durable, their work/paint will hold up and in most cases look good for this first year. Many times when you pick your car up from the body shop where you had it painted you don't get to talk to the painter, if you do they are often busy and don't have time to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about paint but couldn't find the right person to ask. More often than not, you talk to a shop manager or someone in the front office and they aren't going to take the time to educate you either on your new paint job except to tell you to not apply wax for X amount of days.


I've copied and pasted the relevant article below and if you read it you'll understand everything you need to know about your brand new paint job.




Paint Needs to Breathe


Words mean things, just ask any Lawyer. Floating around on the Internet, and discussed for decades among car enthusiasts is the myth that paint needs to breathe.

Or is it a myth?

It depends on how literal you read into the words. If you apply the common definition used for the word breath, then "No", paint does not need to breathe. If however you take a moment to understand the idea that is being expressed with this word, then I think you'll understand why the word breathe is used when someone says, or posts to the Internet that "Paint needs to breathe".

The below is just my guestimation as to the story behind the theory or myth that paint needs to breathe. I may be wrong, but my years of working with both painters, detailers and serious car enthusiasts as well as teaching detailing classes makes me think that if I'm not dead on, I'm at least in the ball park. With that said, here my explanation of how the saying, "Paint needs to breathe" originated.

For the last 50 or so years, when a person would have their car painted, upon retrieving it from the painter, the painter would typically recommend that the owner wait for a period of time before applying a coat of wax or some type of paint sealant that seals the paint. The normal period of time that most painters recommend is anywhere from 30 to 60 days and sometimes longer, depending upon the painter. The reason for this waiting period is to allow the different solvents and other additives enough time to fully evaporate out of and off of the surface.

Wax and/or paint sealants, whether natural or synthetic, or a blend of both of these ingredients, seals the paint by coating over the surface and filling into any microscopic surface imperfections creating a barrier coating over the surface. This blocks, or inhibits these solvents from escaping through evaporation, or outgassing. Solvents also called thinners and reducers are used to thin the paint down so that it can be atomized into a spray when applied with a paint gun using compressed air.

When a customer arrives at a body shop or a dealership to pick up their car with its freshly applied paint, most painters will tell the customer to wait a certain number of days before applying wax, or paint sealant over their new paint job. If the customer agrees, then that's probably as far as the discussion goes.

If the customer asks further questions as to why they must wait before applying a protective coating to their investment, then it is my belief that most painters would do their best to explain to the customer, in easy to understand terminology, so that the customer will understand and comply with his request. This is where I think the saying, paint needs to breathe, originated.

I don't think most painters would try to explain that the solvents need to outgas in order for the paint to fully dry and harden, instead, I think they would use a more simple approach and merely tell the customer that their new paint needs to breathe.

The above fictional analogy is probably as accurate as any assumption as to how the theory that paint needs to breath was started. (I'm open to other theories however.)

People that understand the painting process understand that paint doesn't literally need to breathe; they do understand that fresh paint needs to outgas. This means that for a period of time, the solvents and other carrying agents, which are used to dilute paint to a thin viscosity so that it can be sprayed out of a pressurized air sprayer, need to work their way out of the paint through the evaporation process, also referred to as outgassing.

Read the below two scenarios and then decide for yourself, which scenario sounds more plausible.

In an effort to explain to their customers why paint manufactures recommend waiting for at least 30 days to pass before applying a coating of wax or a paint sealant, the painter can,

• 1. Try to explain the outgassing process over and over again throughout their career.
  2. Use a simple analogy that the average person can understand without challenging the painter's judgment or expertise.

My personal guess is the second option.

If the simple analogy works, it will accomplish the painter's goal and allow the painter to get back to work, not spend his time explaining the painting process to each customer as they pick up their car. The goal of course is to prevent the customer from sealing the paint with some type of wax or paint sealant until the paint has completely dried and the out-gassing process is completely over.

• * Paint does not need to breathe in the literal sense that you and I need to breathe as living human beings.
  * Paint does need to breathe in the sense that fresh paint needs to outgas.

Of course, in the last 50 years or so since World War II ended and the car crazy culture really revved up in America, (no pun intended), the result has been explosive growth in the collision repair and custom painting industries. It should be no surprise that the idea that paint needs to breathe has finally reached enough of a critical mass as to be the topic of discussion on numerous discussion forums as well as anywhere a couple of car enthusiasts gather to talk shop.

Depending on how literal you want to read into it, when someone states "Paint needs to breathe", what they probably mean is that fresh paint needs to outgas, they probably just don't know, or understand the term outgas, and/or they are confused like many people who have gone before them and are operating under the wrong idea innocently.

A different, but related version of the above would be someone that applies the same idea that paint needs to breathe to the paint on a brand new car which is also false unless the new car has been painted within the last 30 to 90 days. Sometimes during shipping from the assembly plant to the dealership show room floor, new vehicles are damaged and need repair including repainting. If all the paint on the car is the factory original paint, then it was baked on at the factory as it traveled down the assembly line and was completely cured before it left the assembly plant and it is perfectly safe to apply a coating of wax or a paint sealant of some type. If the car has been repainted due to damage during transit, then the areas with fresh paint should not be sealed with wax until the recommended waiting period has passed.

Well, this is my stab at the "Paint needs to breathe theory".

[mortenso]

The paint look perfect in the garage but in the sun there are visable swirl marks on som parts of the car notably on the roof pillars, but not as bad as in your picture. Will the #80 remove these? I'll get some shoot of the swirls and upload.

The scratches on the front bumper appeared after the car had been standing out in the rain one night. I shoot the attached picture the evening before. It looks perfect in the picture, could the scratches have been smoothed out with filler/wax from the shop. The scratches that remains white after wetting are deep.
Should I fill the deepest scratches with clear coat and let it cure for a week and then buff it with #85 + w7006 and a rotary buffer.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

For the marring on the pillar, #80 may work, but it may be difficult to use the G100 and a polishing pad in such a confined space. I would use ScratchX with a piece of 100% cotton terry toweling. Make sure you REALLY work the ScratchX until it is almost gone. Then wipe off with a clean MF towel.

Based on the photos, no glaze would have ever covered up that marring. For the deeper marring painting may be the only option. You can try using touch up paint and then a coat or two of Clear Coat on top. Then if you have experienced with using a rotary buffer and have wet sanded before, you could wet sand the touch up paint and then buff out the sanding marks.

HOWEVER, as I said, you want to use #85 with a W-4000 Wool Pad. If you use it with the cutting pad, you will create a great deal of heat, which could burn the paint, or in your case actually "wrinkle" the paint. If you want to use the W-7006 Cutting Pad, you will need to use #84 Compound Power Cleaner. Meg's #84 was designed to be used with the W-7006 pad.

With the #85 and W-4000 pad, run the rotary around 1500 rpm, but be careful and watch for heat build-up. If you do not have experience in doing this type of detailing, I suggest taking it to a Pro Detailer to have it done.

Tim

[mortenso]

At the moment I only have the G100A so I want to use that to remove the marring on the front bumper if at all possible.

Is the following a good plan:

1. use touch up paint in the 3 deep cracks without colour.
2. wait one day
3. apply clearcoat to fill out all cracks
4. wait one week
5. wet sand clear coat to level with rest of paint with 2500 (or should I use 3000)
6. polish with #83 and W-8006 (or is it better to use ScratchX?)
7. wax with #21 and W-9006

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

I would suggest using color coded touch-up paint to fill the voids and then top with a coat of clear.

As for wet sanding, to be honest, unless you had a rotary, it may not be wise. It is easy to sand down the touch-up paint, but it is much harder to remove the sanding marks. From my experience, in the vast majority of cases a rotary will be needed to remove the sanding marks as the G100 is just too gentle. Now that does not mean that if you really work at it that it can not be done. It may be possible if your paint is very soft. But in most cases a rotary will be needed. So if you attempt it, test in a small area first and see how your paint reacts.

Tim