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**RDVT4ME** · May 16, 2008, 03:06 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

You might try using less product and clean your pad often. M83 does tend to chunk up when applied to heavy. You could also spray the area with a light amount of detail spray. M83 is more challenging to work with than M80.

**Markus Kleis** · May 16, 2008, 03:09 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Originally posted by RDVT4ME View Post

You might try using less product and clean your pad often. M83 does tend to chunk up when applied to heavy. You could also spray the area with a light amount of detail spray. M83 is more challenging to work with than M80.

Great, that makes sense as it was getting worse as I went on. Also, the Lake Country pad I was using has those "reservoirs" that hold extra product, and I am getting the feeling I may need to switch back to the Meg's pads when using the 83 to avoid that.

**Mike Phillips** · May 16, 2008, 03:14 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

That's pretty hot for buffing out a car and in most cases it will make a product more difficult to work with.

Bob's right in that the most important thing you can do when machine cleaning is to keep your pad and surface clean, especially with M83

Here's an experiment you can do to kind of trouble shoot the problem but it requires that you have a clean, dry pad. Doesn't have to be new, just clean and dry. We normally use the W-8000 or the W-8006 pads when working with M83 and this is the pad we would be using to do the test.

Wipe a horizontal panel clean, then switch to your dry pad and apply fresh product and see how it buffs. If it buffs easy or easier then the pad was the issue, if it's the same then it's likely temperature. We have not personally used a Flex polisher so we can't comment on that aspect of the process.

**DogParkGuy** · May 16, 2008, 03:14 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

A few weeks ago a reader posted a message how he used #83. He only applied three pea-sized bit of polish to his pad and used it on a small (12x12) area. This avoided product build-up on the pad.

**Mike Phillips** · May 16, 2008, 03:17 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Originally posted by Lumadar View Post

Also, the Lake Country pad I was using has those "reservoirs" that hold extra product, and I am getting the feeling I may need to switch back to the Meg's pads when using the 83 to avoid that.

The little pockets that hold product in all likelihood are keeping the product that builds-up inside of these cavities keep the diminishing abrasives from breaking down at the same time the diminishing abrasives that are being worked against the finish in the flat portions. This means in a way you're never sure if "all" the product has broken down because portions of it are trapped in these pockets.

Don't know if that would make buffing more difficult but you want to be sure you're not leaving horrible swirls due to this issue.

**Markus Kleis** · May 16, 2008, 03:20 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Originally posted by Mike Phillips View Post

The little pockets that hold product in all likelihood are keeping the product that builds-up inside of these cavities keep the diminishing abrasives from breaking down at the same time the diminishing abrasives that are being worked against the finish in the flat portions. This means in a way you're never sure if "all" the product has broken down because portions of it are trapped in these pockets.

Don't know if that would make buffing more difficult but you want to be sure you're not leaving horrible swirls due to this issue.

Good point. I have not noticed any swirl issues, but I did find myself a tad dissapointed in my inability to remove what I thought were fairly "light" (MAYBE bordering medium) scratches with even a foamed wool pad and some #83.

I guess I need to order some more aggressive products...

**TH0001** · May 16, 2008, 04:40 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

While the tempature and humidity are likely playing a role however here are somethings to consider....

Did you clay the car or wipe it with alochol prior to polishing. A lot of drive through car wash LSPs and certain LSPs use a particular silicon that can make the polish behave very erratically. This is more common with certain Menzerna and 1Z polishes then it is with Meguiar's. Infact when I have stubborn problem with a particular paint, M83 seems to be the only product that will work so unless it was a particularly stubbon LSP is doubtful of this is the only cause.

While I wouldn't use M83 in direct sunlight, I haven't found heat to be much of an issue (think of how warm the panel gets when you polish it with a rotary and you are using a ROB) but humidity can cause M83 to get a little funky, but usually not to the point of spitting, and certainatly not on a ROB.

What "grade" of Lake Country pad are you using, white or orange? I have found that newer, stiffer orange pads can be a little tricky to use by rotary but I am not sure if this is a problem with a ROB. I had some wierd re-actions with the orange pads lately.

What products or LSPs have you previously used on the pad and how do you clean them? Sometimes residual polishes can have wierd interactions or if you wash them in soap, make sure you rinsed the pad VERY well.

So lets take it from the top...

Before any polishing I like to wipe the paint down with a prep-solvent product or 91% alochol. This can help remove any stubborn LSP's (one that really likes to stick around is the "GatorWax" at some touchless car washes. It can be a huge PITA and really ruin the day).

Then clay the paint with very throughly to make sure any contaminants are removed an the paint is completely bare.

If you are using an orange pad, switch to a white pad and see if this helps (or try the Megs pads). It wouldn't suprise me if you said this happened on an orange pad.

Also, it sounds like you are using too much product. Try a single, thin line across the pad or two dime sized drops.

IME, most of the product that gets stuck in the the CCS pockets just stays there. It really doesn't cause an issues and it really doesn't improve the process much. I wouldn't worry about it one way or another.

Keep in mind that even with a wool pad, a rotary, and an aggressive compound some defects can require a lot of passes. I use a paint thickness gauge so I can gauge the paint depth reduction, but have had to make as many as 10-12 passes of a compound to remove defects out of very hard mid 80's Lambo Countach paint.

The flex has no where near the power or corrective ability of a rotary, M83 is maybe half as aggressive as most compounds, and the orange and even purple wool pads aren't extremely aggressive. It may take you a very long time to remove the defects and I wouldn't expect miracles with the mild combination you are using.

**eyezack87** · May 21, 2008, 03:32 AM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

83 is very annoying to work with at times. If its not at the perfect temp and humidity then it acts totally different. I found that at the right setting I could finish up 83 to a LSP ready state, but if its not I get horrible hazing

Just keep at it. You'll learn the different conditions and how 83 works in no time

**TH0001** · May 28, 2008, 09:24 AM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Ludamar, did you ever figure out the problem?

**InfiniteDetail** · May 28, 2008, 10:32 AM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

I had the same issues when I originally started working with #83. However, with some tweaking it is now a pleasure to work with. My main problem was applying waaay too much product. 2 pea sized dots on the pad seem to be the perfect amount.

I'm in Arizona and just used it on a near 100 degree day last Saturday with no problems.

For mor details on my experience, see this thread:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=211987#post211987

Good Luck

**Markus Kleis** · May 28, 2008, 02:39 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Originally posted by TH0001 View Post

Ludamar, did you ever figure out the problem?

Wow, I am SO sorry for not replying...I saw your thread for the first time at about 3:00 AM and meant to reply the next time.

I REALLY appreciate the time and effort you put into replying to my question, truly.

I actually did another detail yesterday in normal weather, and I utilized "cleaning on the fly" and had NO dusting or gumming issues. The detail went extremely well, and the customer (and I) were floored.

It was actually the Lake country OJ and some other pads that had been bumming up. I think it was mostly due to too much product, and the heat/humidity were out of control.

**Mike Phillips** · May 28, 2008, 03:36 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Originally posted by Lumadar

I actually did another detail yesterday in normal weather, and I utilized "cleaning on the fly" and had NO dusting or gumming issues. The detail went extremely well, and the customer (and I) were floored.

Most people don't clean their pads often enough and this will go a long ways to making any product easier to work with, also having enough clean, dry pads on hand to switch to periodically.

**Markus Kleis** · May 28, 2008, 03:39 PM

Re: Gumming up #83...is it too hot out?

Originally posted by Mike Phillips View Post

Most people don't clean their pads often enough and this will go a long ways to making any product easier to work with, also having enough clean, dry pads on hand to switch to periodically.

Very true. In fact, it was reading one of your posts that made me realize I needed to utilize the "cleaning on the fly" method- thanks!

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