Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

[Shawn300z]

I did search and I keep seeing.. "use the black pad".

I am new to this detailing thing.. and I recently just wetsanded 2000grit, Ultimate compound w/w7207 pad, then tried SwirlX w/ a new w7207 pad but it seemed to leave the surface a little cloudy.

so I ended up going to the "Ultimate Polish" with a black convoluted pad (3M 05738 8" Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad)..

It has gotten the cloudiness out.. but it just doesn't seem to have that POP that I see others post.


I am mainly having this problem on the hood of the car.. Everywhere else looks great. This was my first buffing/wetsanding job and I am trying to learn as much as possible.


If I used a blue "ultra-fine" convoluted w/ the Ultimate polish.. would that make the surface look like a mirror? Or am I okay with the black 3m pad?


Here is how the rear of the car turned out.. turned out great IMO.. but I haven't seen in the in the sunlight yet.. :/ But I can see there are no swirl marks etc.






Here is a pic of the hood.. the Left side is the "stock" side.. and looks better than the part of hood done by the UC.







The slight haziness and cloudiness was pretty much taken out when I used the "UP" with the black convoluted 3M pad.. but it looks pretty much the same as the "stock" portion of the hood on the right. It just looks a little more clean. If I switched to a Blue "ultra fine" finishing pad with the UP.. Would it pop more? Or when I add the "Ultimate wax" (liquid, by hand).. it will make it look nicer?


I am not using much pressure at all with the "UP". Just kinda letting the buffer do the work.






thanks for any help you may have!




Ps. The car is supposedly original paint.. It is a 1990 Nissan 300zx "midnight blue metallic"


Thank you!
Shawn

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

You don't specify if you're using a rotary buffer or a DA, nor what sort of speed you're running. We certainly hope you're using a rotary to pull out the sanding marks because a DA, even with Ultimate Compound, is going to be challenged by even 2000 grit marks. In fact, in your half & half shot it looks like the haziness you're showing is most likely some very fine sanding marks still in the paint. We would want to see that paint under some pretty serious light to make sure the sanding marks are completely gone - we have a feeling they aren't.

Now, let's assume for a moment that they are, in fact, gone. And we'll assume this even if you did use a DA with Ultimate Compound. In this case it could very well be that the W7207 cutting pad pulled out the sanding marks but left quite a bit of DA haze in the paint, which is pretty common with that pad and a major reason why we don't recommend it for use with a DA. Even so, for the sake of this discussion, let's say that it did work on the sanding marks but left a lot of DA haze. OK, fine. Now you need to remove the haze, and Ultimate Polish on a foam finishing pad is most likely not quite up to the task. UP is extremely fine, and coupled with a fine finishing pad it's not going to give much cut at all. At the very least we'd want to run it with a polishing pad first and then repeat with a finishing pad. Heck, we'd even stick with the Ultimate Compound and run it on a polishing pad to remove the haze from the cutting pad, then use Ultimate Polish on the finishing pad.

But really, before trying any of the above, we'd love to know which tool you're using - DA or rotary - and what speeds you're running at. We're also curious as to whether you sanded by hand or with a DA as that can make quite a difference in the quality of the sanding marks, as well as the overall aggressiveness of the marks (surprisingly, using the same grit by hand or with a DA can result in very different situations). That will answer a lot of questions for us, give us a much clearer picture as to what's really going on here, and ultimately allow us to give you some better guidance.

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

You don't specify if you're using a rotary buffer or a DA, nor what sort of speed you're running. We certainly hope you're using a rotary to pull out the sanding marks because a DA, even with Ultimate Compound, is going to be challenged by even 2000 grit marks. In fact, in your half & half shot it looks like the haziness you're showing is most likely some very fine sanding marks still in the paint. We would want to see that paint under some pretty serious light to make sure the sanding marks are completely gone - we have a feeling they aren't.

Now, let's assume for a moment that they are, in fact, gone. And we'll assume this even if you did use a DA with Ultimate Compound. In this case it could very well be that the W7207 cutting pad pulled out the sanding marks but left quite a bit of DA haze in the paint, which is pretty common with that pad and a major reason why we don't recommend it for use with a DA. Even so, for the sake of this discussion, let's say that it did work on the sanding marks but left a lot of DA haze. OK, fine. Now you need to remove the haze, and Ultimate Polish on a foam finishing pad is most likely not quite up to the task. UP is extremely fine, and coupled with a fine finishing pad it's not going to give much cut at all. At the very least we'd want to run it with a polishing pad first and then repeat with a finishing pad. Heck, we'd even stick with the Ultimate Compound and run it on a polishing pad to remove the haze from the cutting pad, then use Ultimate Polish on the finishing pad.

But really, before trying any of the above, we'd love to know which tool you're using - DA or rotary - and what speeds you're running at. We're also curious as to whether you sanded by hand or with a DA as that can make quite a difference in the quality of the sanding marks, as well as the overall aggressiveness of the marks (surprisingly, using the same grit by hand or with a DA can result in very different situations). That will answer a lot of questions for us, give us a much clearer picture as to what's really going on here, and ultimately allow us to give you some better guidance.

Hey Michael,

Thank you for the reply!

I am using a rotary buffer. (this one http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-...der-92623.html).. Here is a picture of the actual one I am using (please don't pay attention to the pad on the tool.. I was using that for some headlight restoration in the past)


I also did the sanding by hand. 2000grit 3M sand paper soaked in warm water w/ dish soap.




The speed I am using is fairly slow.. I dont think I have went over 1.5 (on thumb control).. I am not using much pressure at all.

So you recommend I use

-Polishing pad (w/ UC)
then
-Finishing pad (w/UP).

This black convoluted pad by 3M that I am using. ( 3M 05738 8" Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad) Is considered a "polishing pad" and would be a good fit for the "UC" at this point? or basically a W8000 series Meguiar's foam pad.. (would the convoluted or flat make a difference?)

And I should buy a FINISHING PAD (for the UP).. would be a W9000 series Meguiar's foam pad (again convoluted or flat?)

Sorry for all the dumb questions!

One thing that has me a little confused is the rear of the car (hatch/1st pic) looks like glass/mirror. But the hood just doesn't have that pop. Is it actually the same as the hood I just can't see because the surface is not as flat/large?


I couldn't imagine it getting much more glossy than what it is now.. I guess I'll have to find out.

I never realized how many different options and products are available for this type of stuff. I believe I have spent over $200 in the past few days purchasing things to try and learn. However; As a true car enthusiast, this is something I have always wanted to self learn

thanks again!
Shawn

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Also..

I currently am using.

1).W7000 series cutting pad with UC
2). 3M black polishing pad with UP

planning on getting a FINISHING pad tomorrow for UP.

If using the FINISHING pad with the UP tomorrow doesn't make this perfect. The next logical step would be to...

1. Polishing pad w/ UC
2. Finishing pad w/ UP.

for the sake of saving some money here.

could I use the 3M black polishing pad with the UC after I have tried using it for the UP? ( I will have it dedicated to the UC after the swap)

And just buy a finishing pad to attempt using the UP with alone.


Thank you!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

OK, following the link you provided for that tool we see that it has no load speeds from 200 to 3,377 rpm. If you haven't gone over speed setting 1.5 that tells us that you just haven't been working all that aggressively to remove the sanding marks, and we're pretty confident that they're still there. Do you have any information showing what the various speed settings give you in terms of RPM? For removing sanding marks, even with M105 (which is a good bit more aggressive than Ultimate Compound) we'd be running a rotary at around 1800 rpm. This is just a wild guess, but at the low speed setting you've been running at, and given how slow that tool can spin, we doubt you've been using more than 1,000 rpm for removing the sanding marks, and just isn't going to get the job done, certainly not with UC.

Why you're seeing this haze (potential sanding marks) on the hood more so than on the trunk could be down to your lighting and the shape of the panels. You want some seriously good light to see what you're doing as sanding marks remnants can be easily masked.

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Hey Michael,

I don't have any information about the various speed settings in RPM.. I am just kinda going by feel and when how the compound is acting. It seems like most of the control is within 1-2 settings on the knob.. (I will invest in a better unit at a later date).

What do you think about my other questions? I purchased a blue finishing pad today.

I am going to try using the polishing pad with the UC.. then follow up with the finishing pad with the UP.

Thanks for all your help!

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Hey Michael,

I found this link while searching on MOL

Min. - 335 rpm
l - 1460 rpm
ll - 1750 rpm
lll - 2030 rpm
llll - 2200 rpm
lllll - 2365 rpm
Max. - 2900 rpm

supposedly this is for the buffer/polisher that I have.

I based my speeds from watching videos online and tried to keep it similar to that.

I usually keep it around 1.5 which would be about 1600rpm.. so that is about right?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

If those numbers are right then you're probably still spinning a bit slowly. It does seem a bit odd that a tool that can go as slow as 335 rpm (the website says 200) would be spinning 1460 at setting 1!!!!

Still, when we do our Advanced Classes here we use a wool pad, M105 and 1800 rpm to remove 3000 grit sanding marks. Obviously the paint itself is going to play a huge role here, but we still feel that you're not getting out all the sanding marks due to the low speed and the use of Ultimate Compound rather than M105. Even without the wool pad you should be fine, but with M105 and 1800 rpm or even a bit more. We never recommend that exceed 2000 rpm, so don't go crazy, but just under speed setting 3 sounds reasonable to us. You may actually find a wool pad to be a bit easier to control than the foam cutting pad, at least when first learning to use a rotary. A wool pad also won't generate as much heat as quickly as a foam cutting pad will.

As for picking up the blue finishing pad, or using UC on different pads, etc..... we think that's all a bit moot until you're positive that all the sanding marks are gone.

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Michael!

Great news!

I did what you suggested and gave the

UC w/ black 3m polishing pad.
then
UP with blue finishing pad.

Went ahead and re-did the whole car.. I played around with speeds and pressures.




















Since this is my first time attempting this type of thing.. and I got great results, I will definitely be purchasing a good quailty buffer/polisher now!


Thank you for the tips! I now have the confidence to start really tackling other vehicles of mine

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Oh yea.. here were the products I used!

Except the SwirlX.. I ended up not using it and just doing a UC w/ polishing pad.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Well then, it was just some bad hazing left over. Nice to see you managed to clear it up, which is the ultimate goal, of course. This exercise is a great one for learning how things can change in a process by altering tool speed, pad choice, and combining materials in different ways to achieve the goal. Just remember, though, that not all paint will necessarily respond the same way to the same input. Paint likes to keep us guessing, and if you can learn to think on your feet you'll be way ahead of the game!

[Shawn300z]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Thank you for the tips Michael!

I forgot to upload these pictures for you.. I finally got to take some of them in daylight.











I also have been getting into learning some painting.. I painted my faded 3rd brake light panel.. Here is the before



Here is the paint I used..





Scuffed up ready for color coats and clear









Wet sand with 1500grit.. then followed up with some 2000grit. Then some ultimate compound and ultimate polish..







This is the first time I have ever got this kind of results with a rattle can.. Its just this wetsand,buffing,polishing has opened me up to a whole new world!

I love this stuff!

All because of this site!

thanks again for the help!

-Shawn

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Awesome work, Shawn, the Z looks incredible!!

[smack]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Glad you were able to get your car to the level you did with the info and knowledgeable people on this site.

[sontakke]

Re: Pad used for Ultimate Polish?

Wow! I am impressed. And this is all done with HF cheapo rotary!! Take that you snobs :-)

What settings did you finally use with the rotary? I have the same one with Meg backing plate and 6.5 inch pads.