Hello and help.

[bmw guy]

New to MOL. First experience with NXT 2.0 on a black metallic finish. Hand applied. Looked great until the first wash. Those nasty fine lines returned. Rinsed the car of dust first. Then bucket washed the car with a brand new MF chenille mitt - Soft Wash also poured directly onto the mitt for lots of suds. Dried the car with new MF towels. What was done wrong?

Previously, always washed my vehicles at a self serve coin wash but decided to try the hand wash. Why? In the process of selling my coin wash business!

[Murr1525]

Re: Hello and help.

Well, if the surface was not well prepped, such as cleaning/claying, the wax may not have adhered real well. What kind of soap was used for you first wash? Most coin-op soaps are quite strong, and can remove wax easily.

There is also the situation that the swirls were not removed in the first place, so eventualy they will return no matter what.

Here are some links for the paint care, that explain the full process. Understanding them will get you in good shape for working on your paint:

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle
Step 1 Wash
Step 2 Clean
Step 3 Polish
Step 4 Protect
Step 5 Maintain

Suggested Products for Taking Care of a New Car

What it Means to Remove a Scratch

How To Remove Swirls By Hand

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX

Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer

Recommended Products - G100a Dual Action Polisher

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

1986 Ford Bronco II - Extreme Makeover

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Hello and help.

Hello and welcome to mol.

[yalerd]

Re: Hello and help.

Hi and welcome to Meguiar's Online!

[bmw guy]

Re: Hello and help.

Well, if the surface was not well prepped, such as cleaning/claying, the wax may not have adhered real well. What kind of soap was used for you first wash? Most coin-op soaps are quite strong, and can remove wax easily.

The surface seemed smooth and clean. But having said that, I am new to sophisticated detailing. Perhaps going back to square one is in order.

The first wash after using NXT was as described. Did not use the coin-op. Not to be argumentative, but my coin op uses only soft water and the soaps are non caustic.

There is also the situation that the swirls were not removed in the first place, so eventualy they will return no matter what.

On the product description of NXT, it reads "visually eliminate fine swirls and micro-scratches". It did but the durability was the issue.

Here are some links for the paint care, that explain the full process. Understanding them will get you in good shape for working on your paint:

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle
Step 1 Wash
Step 2 Clean
Step 3 Polish
Step 4 Protect
Step 5 Maintain

Suggested Products for Taking Care of a New Car

What it Means to Remove a Scratch

How To Remove Swirls By Hand

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX

Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer

Recommended Products - G100a Dual Action Polisher

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

1986 Ford Bronco II - Extreme Makeover

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider

Great links ! Have some reading and learning to do. Thanks.


Do you suggest/prefer using any of the numbered products like #2 Fine Cut Cleaner or #9 Swirl Remover as opposed to ScratchX?

[bmw guy]

Re: Hello and help.

Hello and welcome to mol.

Thanks. Here to listen and learn.

[bmw guy]

Re: Hello and help.

Hi and welcome to Meguiar's Online!

Appreciate your hospitality. Seems like the place where a a good bunch of people who enjoy their cars get a chance to share ideas.

[Murr1525]

Re: Hello and help.

No problem... It is a shame your car wash is in the minority... I am sure there could be a chain of quality car places if more people cared enough.

I am not sure why it it did not hide the swirls longer.

As far as the swirl removal, if you are working by hand, ScratchX or #105 is best. #2, #9, etc can be used by hand, but would tend to give best results by machine. Of course if you were going to go as far as working by machine, like a G100/110, I would probably look at something like #80/#83.

[RacerX88]

Re: Hello and help.

Welcome to MOL.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Hello and help.

New to MOL. First experience with NXT 2.0 on a black metallic finish. Hand applied.

Looked great until the first wash.
Those nasty fine lines returned.

Rinsed the car of dust first. Then bucket washed the car with a brand new MF chenille mitt - Soft Wash also poured directly onto the mitt for lots of suds. Dried the car with new MF towels. What was done wrong?

Clear coats are just plain difficult to keep swirl free and flawless all the time, it's possible but it's a lot of work and the swirls show up so easily to our eyes.

If you want perfection after a car wash you're going to have to do something after the car wash to restore the paint to a flawless, swirl free plateau, this could be applying a product like UQD which will help but if you really want to mask fine swirls than a coat of wax is the best way to go.

Removing the swirls is an option but if the car is a daily driver then they will come back, so it's not a one time fix.

As to your question about using M02 Fine Cut Cleaner? Were you going to do this by hand? If so, make sure you have the #2 that states it can be hand applied on the back label. If you are planning on working by hand to remove swirls, you're going to find out just like so many people before you that because clear coat paints tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints, removing swirl by hand is difficult and time consuming, thus the primary reason the DA Polisher has become so popular in the last 15+ years.


If you really want a nice looking finish the consider getting into machine polishing, the machine will always outperform the human hand.

[bmw guy]

Re: Hello and help.

No problem... It is a shame your car wash is in the minority... I am sure there could be a chain of quality car places if more people cared enough.

You are right about that. I learned a long time ago not to try to compete with the cheapie washes. Their customers got what they deserved. Being a "lifer" car guy, we provided a wash facility that I was not afraid to regularly use on my own vehicles. We were often busy when others were empty. Our customer's left with clean vehicles - other washes only offered a place to get your car wet !

I am not sure why it it did not hide the swirls longer.

As far as the swirl removal, if you are working by hand, ScratchX or #105 is best. #2, #9, etc can be used by hand, but would tend to give best results by machine. Of course if you were going to go as far as working by machine, like a G100/110, I would probably look at something like #80/#83.

Will have to add to my inventory. Plenty of shelf space still left.
Thanks again.

[bmw guy]

Re: Hello and help.

Clear coats are just plain difficult to keep swirl free and flawless all the time, it's possible but it's a lot of work and the swirls show up so easily to our eyes.

If you want perfection after a car wash you're going to have to do something after the car wash to restore the paint to a flawless, swirl free plateau, this could be applying a product like UQD which will help but if you really want to mask fine swirls than a coat of wax is the best way to go.

Removing the swirls is an option but if the car is a daily driver then they will come back, so it's not a one time fix.

Reassuring to know that the method of wash is not the issue. Just need to learn to wax more often. For me, every car is a daily driver. I believe in driving a vehicle rather than preserving it for the next owner. Fortunately the metallic black car is small so it does not take a great deal of time to wax.

As to your question about using M02 Fine Cut Cleaner? Were you going to do this by hand? If so, make sure you have the #2 that states it can be hand applied on the back label. If you are planning on working by hand to remove swirls, you're going to find out just like so many people before you that because clear coat paints tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints, removing swirl by hand is difficult and time consuming, thus the primary reason the DA Polisher has become so popular in the last 15+ years.

I have BEEN applying by hand for fear of doing irreversible machine damage. Might just have to "**** it up" and practise with a polisher on another vehicle.


If you really want a nice looking finish then consider getting into machine polishing, the machine will always outperform the human hand.

Probably knew this all along but just needed to hear it from an expert.

In the past, have used Fine Cut hand applied on oxidized paint on the RV with very good results. If memory serves, label did mention hand application. Will experiment some more. But, will be more observant of labels on the next purchases.

[03mach1]

Re: Hello and help.

Welcome to MOL.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Hello and help.

In the past, have used Fine Cut hand applied on oxidized paint on the RV with very good results. If memory serves, label did mention hand application. Will experiment some more. But, will be more observant of labels on the next purchases.

The formula for M02 was changed a few years ago, previously the label would say,

Method of application: Rotary buffer only.

The new formula will say,

Method of application: By hand, DA Polisher and Rotary Buffer


The old formula would work fine by hand on an oxidized gel-coat finish, but it would scratch an automotive clear coat finish.

So that's what you want to be careful about, using something to aggressive on your scratch-sensitive clear coat finish.

[bmw guy]

Re: Hello and help.

Welcome to MOL.

Thanks. That was the best look for the T-birds.
BTW, what is that race chassis parked next to the T-bird?