Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

[510GUY]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Mike,

I am going to help a friend move in to the world of the DA. Now that SEMA is finished, we can get the backing plate and pads.

But what products to you recommend? Previous to this announcement for us "beginner" detailers it was Wash, Clay, M80, NXT Wax. Should I get him either Swirl X or M205 instead of M80? I know that M205 is supposed to follow M105, but I don't know if it would be a better alternative to M80 than Swirl X.

Also, I've enjoyed reading about all the new products. It looks like Ultimate Quick Wax will replace the NXT Quick/Spray way I have been using when I face time constraints after washing my cars.

Thanks for your advice

[gioprivatemove]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Can't wait to try it...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

I know it says ultimate compound is safe by hand or d/a but what about orbital "wally world" buffers?

That's a great question and the honest answer is I don't know because I have not used these products first hand with these style of buffers. I will check to see if testing has been done with this style of buffer and get back to this thread.

Typically the speed and large size of the buffing pads most of these types of buffers offer works against them when it comes to removing swirls out of clear coat paint. They're good for spreading out a layer of wax but not removing small particles of paint in a way that leaves the paint looking good. our new SMA technology may change all this and I'll check and see if any testing has been done.

Mike--Is Ultimate Compound the consumer version of M105??

Different products for different methods markets, they are not the same formula but they are both aggressive compounds, choose the one that best fits the manner for which you're going to use the product. The benefit to Ultimate Compound is that it's going to be available at normal retail outlets where as our Professional Line requires enthusiasts to understand what a PBE store is and how to find one, this is more difficult for most people unless they're avid readers of this forum.

But what products to you recommend? Previous to this announcement for us "beginner" detailers it was Wash, Clay, M80, NXT Wax.

Should I get him either Swirl X or M205 instead of M80? I know that M205 is supposed to follow M105, but I don't know if it would be a better alternative to M80 than Swirl X.

In keeping with our philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, SwirlX and ScratchX are going to be two products you want to have in your arsenal of products. That way you can try SwirlX first and if it's not getting the job done you can then switch to ScratchX.

Anyone that's going to move up to machine cleaning and polishing really needs to have a few products to choose from because in some cases a light paint cleaner will get the job done and in some cases you may need a more aggressive product but you won't know unless you have both to test with and of course in-line with this logic at some point you may want to add Ultimate Compound to your arsenal also for when you really need some cleaning power.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

I know it says ultimate compound is safe by hand or d/a but what about orbital "wally world" buffers?

Checked with Mike Pennington our Director of Training and "yes" our new paint care products can be used with a traditional orbital buffer but these tools are not the best choice for removing swirls because they just don't work well for this when it comes to clear coat paints.

They were good in the old days when used to remove oxidation from single stage paints because all they had to do was chew off the old dead paint and un-cover some fresh paint.

When it comes to clear coat paints, the problem isn't oxidation it's swirls and scratches and these types of buffers just don't work well for this type of work and that's why DA Polisher like our G110 and our G220 have become so popular in the last 15+ years.

[dragonballz]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Here are some of my thoughts. While Swirl-X is more aggressive than 83, I am sure it also depends on the pad, as I believe Mike has stated. In that case, a "finishing" pad could make swirl-x equal to say 80, or even 9. I tend to believe these new abrassives are more pad dependant. Also, I'll be one of the ones using 205 by DA buffer. I've just got to try it, as I am looking for finishing polish.

Mike..any additional thoughts in response to my thoughts?

So...

Old Scratch-X is less aggressive than 83
New Scratch-X is more aggressive than 83
New Swirl-X is more aggressive than Old Scratch-X
83 is more aggressive than 80

80 < 83 < Old Scratch-X < Swirl-X < Scratch-x 2.0

Are my statements correct????

confusing lol

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

So...

Old Scratch-X is less aggressive than 83
New Scratch-X is more aggressive than 83
New Swirl-X is more aggressive than Old Scratch-X
83 is more aggressive than 80

80 < 83 < Old Scratch-X < Swirl-X < Scratch-x 2.0

Are my statements correct????

confusing lol

That would be from most to least aggressive,

• Ultimate Compound
• ScratchX 2.0
• SwirlX
• M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
• M205 Ultra Finishing Polish
• ScratchX (Current Version being discontinued)

Does that help?

[Alfisti]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Wow! That's interesting about ScratchX v1! The new range has some serious correcting ability...brilliant!

[dragonballz]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

That would be from most to least aggressive,

• Ultimate Compound
• ScratchX 2.0
• SwirlX
• M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
• M205 Ultra Finishing Polish
• ScratchX (Current Version being discontinued)

Does that help?

Thanks.... i shouldnt have skipped the first post.

[akimel]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

I still can't get over the fact that SwirlX is rated more abrasive than M83. I realize, of course, that SwirlX's abrasiveness is pad, time, and pressure dependent, that it can be made to work as gently as M09 or M80; but it still throws the cut chart into utter confusion. Just when I was starting to feel I had a handle on things ... and now my whole world is turned upside down.

Al

[Justin Murphy]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

I still can't get over the fact that SwirlX is rated more abrasive than M83. I realize, of course, that SwirlX's abrasiveness is pad, time, and pressure dependent, that it can be made to work as gently as M09 or M80; but it still throws the whole cut chart into utter confusion. Just when I was starting to feel I had a handle on things ... and now my whole world is turned upside down.

Al

This is becoming the norm with any product.

8 years ago I paid 1100.00 for a 36" 4:3 tube TV. That money would get 2 26" LCDs now!

Progress my friend.....PROGRESS!

[OhioCarBuff]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

since #205 is less agressive then swirl-X, will #205 product a more clear, glossier finish, provided all other factors are equal?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

since #205 is less aggressive then swirl-X, will #205 product a more clear, glossier finish, provided all other factors are equal?

I've used both of these with foam finishing pads on clear coated black paint with a DA Polisher and the end result was what I was hoping for and that's clear, glossy finish perfect for applying a wax to.

These two products are formulated differently, one for Pros for use with RB and DA and one for Consumers for DA and Hand but at some point if you're doing everything right you're going to get great results.

Everyone is so excited and curios to try these product out and all we can ask is to keep on having patience.

[Larry A]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Can Swirl X be used with a rotary? If not what will happen, will it gum up or will it leave swirls of its own.?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

Can Swirl X be used with a rotary? If not what will happen, will it gum up or will it leave swirls of its own.?

I've only used it as directed so far, (silly me), so I don't have a first hand answer for you based upon experience. My guess is that it will work but not as well as a product that is actually formulated to be used with a rotary buffer.

Maybe after the holiday vacation and the people behind the design of these new products return to work and get caught up we can check with them on your question.

That said, the best way to use a product is as the manufacture recommends it as they know their product formulas best. Luckily we have products that can be used with a rotary buffer so you can choose the right product for the job and the manner in which you want to apply it.

[dedonderosa]

Re: Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you!

wouldnt u wanna use m205 on a da with a polising pad over a finishing pad to remove defects ??????