I can't begin to respond to this guy.

[Godiva]

I post on the Priuschat website. They are really big on Zaino there. Someone just bought a Prius and just wanted to know how to wash it. She doesn't want to become a professional detailer or even get into it as much as I am. She just wanted her car washed and was going to take it to a car wash. With brushes. She's been talked into washing it herself.

I suggested some Meguiar's Gold Class or NXT with an Absorber, good quality microfiber towels and to use two buckets.

************************

Here is a compilation of this guy's posts.

"Since your prius is black here is what you really want to do.

Head to (deleted url) and pickup the starter kit. It comes with wash, polishes, etc.

Go to any wallyworld type place and pickup a nice high pressure hose/nozzle and some higher end 100% cotton smaller towles.

Then go to a nicer bath and body works or whatever type place and get some higher end 100% cotton towels for your polishing, there is a much better guide on the Zaino site.

Wash your car with the Zaino, then polish it as per the instructions. My Prius's paint was clean enough that I didn't have to clay bar it from the factory.

The reason I do not reccomend wax is because it does nothing for the finish of your car. It just fills in the swirls, spiderwebbing, and scratches. The Zaino Polishing system actually removes these imperfections from the finish itself, as well as making your paint smoother than glass (really). Ive seen several black cars that had a numerous zaino application done and it was AMAZING.

I dont reccoment anything electric either. Besides doing it by hand is not only easier on your car (especially when you think about it removing the chance of human error) plus its a good afternoon workout. And Zaino can be applied in cold weather, it just takes it a bit longer to dry."

"Zaino can be applied in the low 30's, however if the humidity is high it can take around 2-3 hours to dry. You wouldn't necessairly need to polish it now though but after a few washes you will notice fine scratches that it will remove. Their carwash however is always good to use."

And another after my post:

"for those of you that tell me im wrong and dont know what im talking about.

Find one professional detailer that uses these off the shelf consumer products. [I assume he's referring to the Meguiar's I suggested.]

You are trusting the meticulious paint job of your car to something that costs $5.99. Be my guest, but I have had 8 cars, of various types and colors and I can tell you many of these products will scratch or swirl your paint."

***************

First....this woman doesn't want to become a professional detailer, she wants to wash her car. I don't think she wants to go to the Zaino site and spend $85 dollars or more and then wait for the products to arrive in the mail.

Uh...how many professional detailers use the consumer line of Zaino?

In what way is the consumer line of Meguiar's inferior to the professional line? The Meguiar's consumer line isn't very cost effective when you are a professional detailer and use a LOT of product.

This guy says that waxing your car is a waste of time....that the Zaino sealant is all you need! The Zaino products he named have no abrasives and won't do anything for scratches or swirls...someone else already called him on that.

How many professional detailers do you know that do the entire car ONLY by hand and NEVER use any electrical device?

For that matter....I'll bet there are "professional" detailers out there that use some extremely inferior and cheap products that you guys could easily name.

BTW all of these Zaino users start by washing their cars with DAWN dishwashing liquid.

I just don't know what to say.

[gb387]

Interesting reading!

[LiquidBlack]

That poster has no idea what kind of person he is talking to. This is an end user. One who wants to keep their car looking good, but also probably uses that car as a daily driver. You wouldn't recommend a $5000.00 computer to a grandmother who uses a computer for writing letters, why recommend super-expensive waxes and washes to a daily driver?

[Murr1525]

More often than not, it is just best not to even try and argue. Much like the daily newscasts, the person who says the most is believed, not who says what is right.

And since when was ordering online more trustable then off the shelf?

[Setec Astronomy]

Well, like a lot of things in life, we would like them to be simpler than they actually are. Obviously this guy is trying to make things more complicated then they need to be for this woman.

If you are trying to advise her/defuse the situation, just bring it back to the level that the woman wants to be at, which is just to get her car clean. It's probably the best advice that you can give to a car owner, is regular washing, if nothing else. If she enjoys the washing, great...she may find that it's too much work/time, and wind up going to the scratch-n-swirl anyway. Oddly enough, some people won't even notice the swirls, even on black. She may not keep the car that long, or care.

Unfortunately, some people feel the need to prove that they are knowledgeable, or "right" in the product selections they have made, and try to force lifestyle choices, so to speak, on others.

[Mikeyc]

Yeah, there are a lot of Zaino users who are really over zealous. They think that Zaino is the best thing since sliced bread. So, they try to force it on everyone else. What most of them don't realize is that not everyone has the same goals in mind when it comes to car care. This is why Meguiar's has multiple lines, to appeal to multiple types of consumers from the occasional washer to the obsessive compulsive detailing freak. This woman will be very unhappy if she decides to order a Zaino kit, because it's not what she's looking for.

Personally, I hate talking about Zaino on-line anymore. Whenever you say something critical about Zaino 20 Zaino users jump down your throat saying how great Zaino is and how wrong you are.

[the other pc]

Originally posted by Murr1525
… it is just best not to even try and argue….

Disagreeing with this guy directly, no matter how politely, will just get him going.

Ignore him. Give your suggestions to her directly. Be simple and clear in your recommendations, rational in describing your reasoning behind your choices. She’ll get your drift.

Maybe a pic from your Prius club’s detailing class would be appropriate.


PC.

[Godiva]

Thanks.

I just posted a few links describing how to wash a car without pushing any products. It just goes through the process. I think that's what she really wanted, a simple step by step and some product suggestions on what to use and where to buy it.

In the process I did come across a really great car vacuum. Anyone had any experience with the Metro Vac N'Blo? Before I invest I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with this or has a really great shop vac they can recomment. Space is an issue...I need something small. But it needs to be powerful enough to do the carpets. I am NOT lugging my house vacuum (which ***** or I should say doesn't **** enough) out to the garage to do my car. I want a really good car vac.

I want a really good house vac too, but that will have to wait.

[the other pc]

Never tried a Metro but I’ve only heard good things about them.

For portability I had a 1 gallon Shop Vac, really compact, light, easy to use in a car, and worked surprisingly well for such a little guy.

I needed more capacity (for something other than cars) so I replaced it with a 2.5 gallon Shop Vac.


It’s quite reasonably powerful, fairly small, lightweight and has more than enough capacity. It was pretty inexpensive but after I bought it I found out that Lowes sells one that’s almost identical and is dirt cheap. The biggest drawback is that it can’t use the standard cartridge filters. You need to use the paper sheet filters or the cloth bag filters.

For cars I drag a long hose from my bigger machine.


PC.

[Godiva]

That looks perfect.

A one gallon shop vac would be about my size.

Lowe's has a DeWalt 2 gallon that can work off cord OR cordless battery. Wonder if it's the same battery as their drills? I need a new drill. If they can use the same battery, that might be the one. It's $99. I wonder if Home Depot would have it for less?

I really need a powerful vacuum more than I need something that can be a wet vac.

What I like about the Metro is that it can be a leaf blower or inflate stuff like mattresses in case I need it.

[BenP]

Originally posted by Mikeyc
Yeah, there are a lot of Zaino users who are really over zealous. They think that Zaino is the best thing since sliced bread. So, they try to force it on everyone else. What most of them don't realize is that not everyone has the same goals in mind when it comes to car care. This is why Meguiar's has multiple lines, to appeal to multiple types of consumers from the occasional washer to the obsessive compulsive detailing freak. This woman will be very unhappy if she decides to order a Zaino kit, because it's not what she's looking for.

Personally, I hate talking about Zaino on-line anymore. Whenever you say something critical about Zaino 20 Zaino users jump down your throat saying how great Zaino is and how wrong you are.

I get this quite often on other forums when the subject of Zymol comes up. A lot of people buy Zymol's products under the impression that because they're the most expensive, they must be the best. I've never knocked the finish Zymol gives, in fact it's up there with the best, however I've always stuck by one thing - you can get equal if not better results with products that are far cheaper and far easier to use. As soon as I mention this I get a load of Zymol addicts jumping down my throat stating that I'm wrong, and they always cite four arguments:[list=1][*]Zymol is the best because their products are 100% natural and don't contain any "nasty" chemicals that will damage your paint.[*]HD-Cleanse is the best swirl remover as it's not abrasive and therefore doesn't damage your paint.[*]Zymol carnaubas are the only waxes you can layer.[*]Most concours winning cars are prepared with Zymol.[/list=1]
I then always give the same replies, which are:[list=1][*]But why does that matter? Paint is a chemical! The next time you get in the shower look at how many chemicals are in your shower gel that you can't even start to pronounce. You'll happily wash your skin with this but you'll only use 100% natural products on your car?[*]You can't remove a swirl mark with a non-abrasive product. Period. [*]You can't layer carnauba in the true sense of the word. You can add additional coats to create a more uniform layer, but they're not going to layer (then I usually add a bit of chemistry in there to cement the point).[*]Wrong. Autoglym and Meguiar's have had far more concours wins than Zymol. (Also mention the Pebble Beach concours d'Elegance where Meguiar's swept the board).[/list=1]
But no matter how many times I say these things I get treated like I've just walked into their house and taken a dump on their carpet.

Needless to say I've given up now!

Ben

[Mikeyc]

Originally posted by BenP
I get this quite often on other forums when the subject of Zymol comes up. A lot of people buy Zymol's products under the impression that because they're the most expensive, they must be the best. I've never knocked the finish Zymol gives, in fact it's up there with the best, however I've always stuck by one thing - you can get equal if not better results with products that are far cheaper and far easier to use. As soon as I mention this I get a load of Zymol addicts jumping down my throat stating that I'm wrong

That's really interesting that you say that. I have a hard time finding Zymol addicts these days. The only time I see someone mention Zymol these days is to bash it. All the posts read the same "can you believe they make a $1500 wax?" Then they go on to say whoever uses Zymol is an idiot blah blah blah. I rarely see any Zymol supporters these days. I probably just frequent different websites than you.

Definitely though a lot of people come up with some pretty lame reasons for why they use a particular brand.

[BenP]

Originally posted by Mikeyc
That's really interesting that you say that. I have a hard time finding Zymol addicts these days. The only time I see someone mention Zymol these days is to bash it. All the posts read the same "can you believe they make a $1500 wax?" Then they go on to say whoever uses Zymol is an idiot blah blah blah. I rarely see any Zymol supporters these days. I probably just frequent different websites than you.

Definitely though a lot of people come up with some pretty lame reasons for why they use a particular brand.

It's mainly on high-end car forums, such as M-Power, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc where the punter has spent a considerable amount of money on a car and therefore spends a proportionate amount on the Zymol. None of the people who say this are detailing fanatics, just people who like to look after their cars as best they can but are unfortunately not that well informed - they've been sucked in by the Zymol marketing hype. The classic one being that Zymol is the best for your car, yet they still suggest you wash it with a sponge...

Ben

[Setec Astronomy]

Re: That looks perfect.

Originally posted by Godiva


What I like about the Metro is that it can be a leaf blower or inflate stuff like mattresses in case I need it.

What you should really be liking about the Vac 'n Blo is that you can use it to dry your car! I bought an Air Force Blaster, which is kind of the Vac 'n Blo without the dirt collection part (blows only). I considered getting the Vac 'n Blo so that I could reduce one piece of equipment to bring outside, but I just can't do vacuums that have a reusable cloth bag filter...I like them to have a disposable bag.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Murr1525

More often than not, it is just best not to even try and argue.

I would agree strongly with this statement. Arguing never changes anyone's mind.

Much like the daily newscasts, the person who says the most is believed, not who says what is right.

Yep.