Why So Harsh

[oboeboy]

I've been doing a lot of reading, esp. in the past month or so, on the internet about car detailing and products, etc. I read this board, and autopia and some other little ones.

One thing that seems to be common is, at least in my perception is an animosity towards Meguiars products, and so I'm wondering, what caused this?

There are some people out there who really *hate* Meguiars stuff. Maybe I'm untrained, but usually, I could never tell the difference between Zaino'd or 3M'd or Klasse'd Impala's in my old club and my Meguiar'd Impala, except for the fact that I usually could afford to buy a day's worth of meal's over what they spent for their products.

Is it because Meguiar's products are so well priced with similar performance to the more expensive brands?

There's usually no one out there who thinks meguiar's products are ok, they hate them or they love them...

Any thoughts?

[2000]

I've noticed that as well, I think no matter how hard we try not to, we always associate quality with price. with that said megs is not the most expensive stuff out there, so some people will go the other way to get the more expensive stuff believing it's better. also, it seems allot of people like stuff that is hard to find, or has a cult following because they feel they know something others don't, which makes them alittle more knowledgable than most. which isn't really the case at all because even the best product out there is junk if you don't know how to use it.
just my thoughts, maybe I'm way off base.

[scrub]

Just read a thread with some meguiar's haters. They even mentioned this forum. They said they posted some negative comments about a product and someone from the company blasted them...

I'll admit some of the products I've tried from Meguiar's I don't care for. What seems to be the problem is I was misusing some products as the direction were kind of vague. After learning from the web site I've gotten a better handle on it.

As for this web site, the haters seem to think this is some sort of corporate mind control forum. Trying to upsell their products and not educate the masses on detailing and technique. So what that someone who works for the company, works with the products they sell, and spends a great deal of time doing so trys to offer me alittle insight on how and what to use!! I want to learn from the person with the most experience. Whether it be in detailing or using a certain product.

Back to your question, I haven't noticed too many people from other websites bashing Meguiar's products.

[jfelbab]

Some of it is that they hate the big successful company. For example, Why does Jeff Gordon get booed in NASCAR? Not because of his character or driving style. It is because he is so successful. He is a winner and keeps their favorite drivers from winning.

I suspect it is the same thing here. Meguiars spends a lot on R&D to develop new and better products. Their favorite company can't and lacks the resources to have such a broad line of high quality products to fit so many different needs.

I've noticed this as well. I've encountered a few of those "snobs" who think if you don't use their favorite stuff you are an ignoramus.

Best advice... ignore them. They are closed-minded and therefore limited in what they will ever be able to achieve. Always try to stay open to trying new things and not just once. Frequently technique makes all the difference with a product. Try to take the high ground if conversing with these people.

[SpoiledMan]

Some people are just "fan boys" of other products and bash the rest no matter how good/bad it might be. I have used Meguiar's products for many years (early 80's) and continue to. I also use products from other manufacturers that perform as well and in some cases better than Meguiar's products. Sometimes they aren't as good. I don't bash them though. I try to find a use for them in other situations or paint types.

I have learned a lot from Mike P and know that he respects products from other manufacturers and will even openly compliment them. Im sure he is a person that knows that a little company that is ignored could become larger than yours.

I will work with anything that gets me the desired results in the least amount of time. The only manufacturer that that leaves out is Zaino. Too much work for whatever the end result is.

My two pennies.

[mopar]

I found zaino pretty eazy to use and was happy with the end result BUT not nearly as happy as my 2 coats of nxt. and thereafter #7,#26.i think its becuase megs is so well known and popular.when a music artist starts out everyone like them and roots them on and when they get big and susecful people start to hate it.In the end it all comes down to useing what works good for you and makes you happy.And when someone bashes what you are useing just look where its comeing from.

[scrub]

something weird is going on here!!

[oboeboy]

whats weird?

[scrub]

there was a post here a minute ago and now its gone

[rjstaaf]

That would be mine. I deleted it.

[scrub]

Originally posted by rjstaaf
That would be mine. I deleted it.

It was a good un. That was one of the products I was talking about.

[rjstaaf]

I had more I wanted to say so I figured I would just delete it and write a new one tomorrow after sleeping on it

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by rjstaaf
I had more I wanted to say so I figured I would just delete it and write a new one tomorrow after sleeping on it

Hi rjstaaf,

I'm guilty of this also. There have been so many things I have typed up to post and then decided not to post. I often save them, but I don't post them.

Nothing ever good comes from a Waxwar, even if you win, you lose. I find there are so many people on the Internet that enjoy using Meguiar's that if I do nothing but help them to get the best results from their time, money and efforts, then I can stay pretty dog-gone busy.

Mike

p.s.

Guess who owns www.WaxWars.com ?

[Mosca]

Very interesting topic, oboeboy. Let me share something with you.

When I was a detailing pup (not that I'm so overexperienced now, mind you), over on Autopia, I followed a pretty common pattern. That pattern is, once I discovered the process, I could pretty much shine up any car I wanted to... just by following the process.

BUT, the thrill of discovery was still with me. Since there are a lot of different products used at Autopia, I started trying some of those products. And soon I was attributing my results to the PRODUCTS I was using, rather than the PROCESS I was using.

At that point, I (wrongheadedly) decided that I was going to find out what all the different variations were among all the different polishes and waxes, and I decided that I needed a baseline to work from. And I decided that the product line that was most common, that was most average, that when I referred to it EVERYONE would know what I was referring to, was Meguiar's. And I decided to find out what the characteristics were of the Meguiar's line. I wanted to know what the commonalities were; what characteristics do all the Meguiar's products share? I wanted to know what made Meguiar's products DIFFERENT from products made by other manufacturers. I wanted to know why Meguiar's made 9 different waxes, 3 different QDs, 5 different glazes, 4 different washes, etc.

So, I got some Meguiar's products, read the directions, and went out to the garage and started polishing. When I had problems, I called the help line, or posted a message, or called Mike. I learned how to use the different products. I learned the nuances of difference between the different LSPs and glazes.

What I found was that Meguiar's isn't the "baseline" to which other manufacturer's products can be compared and be better or worse. What I found was that the entire concept was flawed. If Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze and Menzerna Intensive Polish both remove scratches and look great, then there is no "better" and "worse". BOTH did the job. The car itself doesn't know what you used; it either shines, or it doesn't. PRODUCT doesn't make the difference. PROCESS does.

So, what do I choose? Meg's #26 is great, but man that Pinnacle Souveran is pretty awesome, too, and it's such a cult item!

When making choices about what to buy, most of us at this level don't parse the differences based on price; if we did that, then we'd never leave the WalMart. And we don't REALLY parse the differences based on quality; I'd think we'd all agree that the discussions as to which is better among these products is a "Ruth or Cobb" question. No one would be upset with their second or third choice. What we choose when we choose products at this level is, "Who do I think REALLY CARES if I buy and use this product?"

And that is how you get the "small is better" cult. The (often accurate) perception is that Sal Zaino, Jan and Terry Freiberg, Steve from Poorboys, and others CARE that they make a better, more distinctive product, that they CARE that you use it, that they CARE if there is something wrong, and also that they CARE and want to know when you get OUTSTANDING results!

Meguiar's is bigger than Zaino, Pinnacle, Poorboys, 4-Star, Clearkote, Stuf, and any 5 other boutique manufacturers you could name COMBINED. They are also VERY SMALL, compared to 3M, DuPont, General Mills, and their other main competitors for shelf space in the big box arena. From Meguiar's perspective, THEY are the David, and DuPont is the Goliath. So, how do they compete, with products that are similar in appearance but a bit more in price?

Well, you're here at this forum for a reason; because you believe that whoever you are writing to will read it, and that they will CARE. That if you call the 800 number on the side of the bottle on a Saturday afternoon because you put the GC on too thick in the summer sun, someone there will tell you how to get it off (QD). Because if you start a post, "PAGING MIKE PHILLIPS! HELP!", you know Mike will answer it first when he sees it. Because when you finish up a job late in the evening, and it looks ABSOLUTELY AWESOME, when you post pictures and people see them they will write back, ABSOLUTELY AWESOME! GREAT JOB!

Those people who dis Meguiar's, what they are really saying is the equivalent of "My (insert their favorite team here) is better than (insert your favorite team here)!" It's New York Yankees hating, to put it in terms that fit my proclivities (I HATE the Yankees). It's more fun to root for the Marlins.

In reality, with Meguiar's you have the best of all possible worlds; you have a company that has been making world class car care products for over 100 years, that makes a different wax for every possible combination of paint and finish, that cares enough to staff phone lines 72 hours a week, that employs people who care enough to monitor the internet ON THEIR OWN TIME to answer questions, peopple who care enough to hold detailing seminars ON THEIR OWN TIME without the desire to push products, a company that continually researches and updates their formulas, a company that sponsors and donates time and money to all things automotive. You get a big company that CARES.

Meguiar's is a company that is big enough to make a lot of really great stuff at decent prices and put it in every small town in America, and also small enough to care. And I'd bet a hundred dollars that I could ring up Barry Meguiar and get him on the phone if he was in the office.


Tom

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Mosca
I wanted to know why Meguiar's made 9 different waxes, 3 different QDs, 5 different glazes, 4 different washes, etc.


Tom

Tom,

One little thing...

There are 4 quick detailers in Meguiar's line, you forgot about the one in the Marine line!

Quick Clean Marine



Other than that, a very insightful post! Thank you for chiming in, as always I enjoy reading your posts.

Mike