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Solus
Mar 17th, 2006, 07:00 PM
What's the difference between #9 #82 and #80 (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11647)


Hi amigos I am kind of lost and confuse now, yesterday I detailed a BMW, it was all repainted black, so i decided to sand it with 1500 grit because it had lot of orange peel. I cut half of the car with #85 and the other half with #84 both with a white wool pad. Then after that I polished with a white pad from LC pads and #83 the entire car and then after that i used #80 with a black pad also from LC pads.

Ok everything was looking perfect that I was like man! I am good, so I started washing the car to remove all the dust from the compound and white dryed clearcoat from the color sanding and guess what!This was a very bad experience because a lot of swirls that it seemed to be from pad were still there, I had just hided them and I was mad. So i dryed the car again and tried with perfect-it III and white pad from LC and after that i tried again #80 with black pad from LC. I washed the car again and swirls were still noticiable but almost all of them were micro swirls that would be hiden with the wax.

I couldnt have time to figure out what happened there i think #83 hided the swirls that i left with the white wool cuttign pad but I wanted to share with you guys this. Maybe some of you have been in the same situation with more time and have been able to fix the problem with just meguiars products, What do you do in this cases?

Ok and therefore well i called customer service at Meguiars asking what were the difference between #9,#80 and #82 and well i just understood that #9 were more capable of removing defect such as swirls and it is a cleaner that has mild polish, and that #80 and #82 were polishes that bring back the shine from paint, I talked with this person about this problem with the BMW and he told me that I can use also #85 with maroon pad to remove sand marks, then yellow pad with #9 and then white pad with #82 so I was confused again aren't they both polishes? They do the same thought they also have the same level of agresiveness in the sticker. Could some one give me some advice or suggerence? I feel like I dont know what I am doing.:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

joburnet
Mar 21st, 2006, 07:19 PM
There is very little difference between any of those products. They are all polishes and all have very very similar light cutting power.

All meguiars polishes that I know of have a lot of fillers in them to hide swirl marks. Use something with more cutting power to actually remove the swirl marks.

#84 and #85 are intended to remove swirl marks like that while the products you've been using are very good for getting that final shine on the paint and doing a litlte light cleaning of oxidation.

Mike Phillips
Mar 21st, 2006, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by joburnet
There is very little difference between any of those products. They are all polishes and all have very very similar light cutting power.

This is true, #9 and #82 are both similar product, on paper the formulas are different, but in application most people wouldn't notice the difference. M83 is a very different formula altogether. It is nothing like the M09 or the M82.


All Meguiar's polishes that I know of have a lot of fillers in them to hide swirl marks. Use something with more cutting power to actually remove the swirl marks.

Well this is false, sounds like you've been reading a lot of misinformation on other forums. What the misinformed call fillers, Meguiar's refers to as a rich lubricating film that prevents the diminishing abrasives from scouring the finish.

Because the entire goal of polishing paint is to make it look good, then all of a sudden using a product that prevents scouring while it's abrading makes a lot of sense.


We understand how people succumb to all the misinformation posted on other forums, in part it's because you have all these self-proclaimed gurus posting under an anonymous nicknames and when they post some tidbit of information part of it may be true while part of it may be false, but no one calls them on it, so it all passes as truth. Then others come a long and read it and then believe it, and the begin to parrot it on other forums and thats one of the ways misinformation spreads.


That's okay though, it gives us a chance to correct misinformation and set the record straight. And because we're in this for the long run, (heck... we've already been here walking the talk for over 100 years), it's only a matter of time, or should I say, it's only a matter of more time before everything sorts itself out.

Now, allow me to copy and paste some replies I wrote in response to another person parroting the same kind of thing you posted. The below quotes are copied and pasted from the below thread that can be found in the Hot Topics forum because this misinformation comes up so often that it needed to be placed in the Hot Topics Forum.

The below are just a few passages taken from the thread, you might want to click on the link and read the entire thread to see everything in the complete context of how it was posted.


Question about #80 (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8331)


Originally posted by silence
Does it contain heavy fillers? Will it cover up swirls and scratches more than it will remove them?

How do you define the word, fillers ?


Do a search using the word fillers and select Search Titles Only in the search preference option.


The word, fillers is a word used by the uniformed on other forums. Don't let yourself get trapped into that mindset. Remember there's lot of self-proclaimed guru's out there that simply copy and paste what they read and in essence act like parrots repeating information they never generated. The problem with this is that some of the information is good, while some of it is bad.


And some more from the above thread...


Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Just to piggyback on what Aurora40 posted, correctly used, our cleaner/polishes like the M80 Speed Glaze remove swirls and scratches, they don't merely fill them in. Part of using a Meguiar's cleaner/polish correctly is choosing the correct product for the job, the other part is to work the product long enough to ensure all of the diminishing abrasives have been broken down.

I purposefully instilled swirls into the hood of our black Pilot and then using only M80 Speed Glaze with our W-8006 foam polishing pad on our G100 dual action polisher I machine cleaned the swirls out of the paint.

I then wiped the hood down with All Purpose Plus Cleaner followed by a strong solution of our Glass Cleaner in the Professional Line, followed by washing the hood with a detergent dish washing soap and then rinsed with water.

I think most people would agree that the above cleaning process will have successfully removed anything left on the finish by the M80 Speed Glaze.

I then moved the Pilot into the driveway in such a was as to capture the sun reflecting off the hood.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2NoFillers1cropped.jpg

The swirls were completely removed, not filled in. The finish actually looked great, as though it had been waxed, yet it had just been tortured with two harsh chemicals and a detergent wash. I'm always impressed at the results that can be achieved with M80 Speed Glaze. When applied correctly, it leaves the finish clear, glassy and perfect for applying a Meguiar's wax.



And some more from the above thread...


Originally posted by silence
I don't know how wellhe used the product or the exact steps he did. I don't know him. I didn't think #80 had fillers, so I thought I would ask and hopefully this thread will answer this question down the road if anyone is thinking of asking.

Hi silence,

I think it was a good idea that you posted this question as I see all the talk on other forums about fillers. This is also why I posted this on page 1


Originally posted by Mike Phillips
The word, fillers is a word used by the uniformed on other forums. Don't let yourself get trapped into that mindset. Remember there's lot of self-proclaimed guru's out there that simply copy and paste what they read and in essence act like parrots repeating information they never generated. The problem with this is that some of the information is good, while some of it is bad.


And this is why I posted the below thoughts on this thread,

Help me please! - Swirls on my black RSX! (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=62459)

When the person who started the thread wrote this,


Originally posted by ng-rsx
I've been reading on forums on how to get rid of swirls, listening to other people's opinions etc...


Interesting...

This is what discussion forums are evolving into...

Whose opinions are right...

There are plenty of opinions out there, (that's for sure), and plenty of keyboard commandos and self-appointed gurus waxing-on at length on this or that and one thing or another...

Luckily time has a way of sorting everything out...


If you want to remove swirls or scratches by hand out of your car's clear coat finish then read the links supplied above and this thread I've included below and you will have a pretty good handle on what to do...

What it Means to Remove a Scratch (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7228)



Point being is everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't make them right.

End of copy and paste



joburnet - Correctly used, #9 and #82 can be used to remove swirls, not merely fill them in. How effective they are depends upon,

* How deep the swirls are
* How hard the paint is
* How you apply it, hand, dual action polisher, rotary buffer
* Your skill level, experience and ability
If #9 and/or #82 or even #80 will not remove the swirls you're working on, then this is not a sign the products don't work, but is instead a sign you need to

* Use a more aggressive product.
* Use a different method of application.
* Use different application material.
* Take it to a professional who possesses the skill level and the experience to make the product work correctly.


#84 and #85 are intended to remove swirl marks like that while the products you've been using are very good for getting that final shine on the paint and doing a little light cleaning of oxidation.

This is partially correct, but it also must be noted that #84 and #85 are for use with rotary buffers, not dual action polisher or by hand.

Our light cleaner/polishes are very effective at removing light swirls using a rotary buffer, (notice the tool being used on the label of the product, this is called an indicator), or with a dual action polisher if the paint is not to hard. In fact some paints are very soft and with these types of paints your need a very gentle swirls remover to remove swirls while not instilling any.

So you were partially correct on your last statement.

I hope this helps...

Mike Phillips
Mar 21st, 2006, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Solus
Hi amigos I am kind of lost and confused now,

Hi Solus,

I apologize that I didn't get to your questions and confusion, it's kind of late where I'm at right now, I'll try to answer all your questions accurately tomorrow.


I would like to thank our other forum member, joburnet for chiming in and supplying some of the answers you were looking for.

Real quick, just to make sure...

You are using a rotary buffer for the work you're doing correct?

Solus
Mar 22nd, 2006, 08:01 AM
Yes Mike I am using a rotary, thxs for clearing up my mind about the fillers.

dotnetdave
Feb 19th, 2008, 01:21 PM
i'm still confused as either i am missing the point or i still cant see the answer to the question of what are the diferrences between #9,#82,#80 in terms or use and abrasivness

Mike Phillips
Feb 19th, 2008, 01:31 PM
All three are cleaner/polishes, that means each one of these product has the ability to remove a little paint in an effort to remove defects and leave a flat/smooth surface behind perfect for applying a wax afterwards.

M09 and M82 are VERY MILD or GENTLE in their abrading ability, so gentle in fact they are really only good for final polishing or the removal of very very light swirls. Best results for removing swirls is when they are applied by machine, either a rotary buffer or a dual action polisher.

M80 is quite a bit more aggressive than M82 and M09 but less aggressive than M83. M80 is aggressive enough that it will tackle removing swirls using a DA Polisher and a polishing pad on a large percentage of cars/paint systems and that's one of the reasons you'll see a lot of threads on this forum and other forums about it's use.

If you're doing a lot of paint polishing, then you should have M80 in your collection and either M82 or M09 but you usually don't need both of the latter as they both give you about the same results.

What are you working on?
What are you trying to accomplish?
How are you applying your products?

dotnetdave
Feb 19th, 2008, 02:29 PM
thanks mike, i already have m85 & m80 in my collection, but for the time when i am going back to a car that has already been machine polished and has no siwrls i was looking at something that will remove the any oxidation\sealant\wax that is on it. From your information it would seem m09 or m82 would be the perfect solution for this.

CharlesW
Feb 19th, 2008, 02:31 PM
This is true, #9 and #82 are both similar product, on paper the formulas are different, but in application most people wouldn't notice the difference. M82 is a very different formula altogether. It is nothing like the M09 or the M82.No big deal, but is it possible you intended to type M80 where M82 is highlighted?

Mike Phillips
Nov 27th, 2008, 11:19 PM
No big deal, but is it possible you intended to type M80 where M82 is highlighted?

Yes. Good catch. I've made the change and will delete this reply and yours.

:)