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demonicus666
Jun 26th, 2006, 06:22 AM
Chemically removing rail dust (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14037)

This guy says this finish kare 3 step decontamination system is better than clay is that true??


Finish Kare Decontamination System (http://www.fk1usa.com/decontamination-how%20it%20works.htm)


There is the link for the Finish Kare stuff guys.



ok, well the stuff ricky was talking about is the finish kare 3 step decontamination system. It works really well and deep cleans the paint better than clay. In most cases it is a replacement for clay however if the car is extremely soiled clay may still be required for the rocker panels. The first step removes all waxes, tar, and anything stuck on your paint. It works so well you will just see the water fully sheet off. The second step dissolves ferrous particles which are highly visible on white cars and other embedded contaminates instead of clay which just smoothes it out to the surrounding level of paint. Then the third step is a wash which neutralizes the paint and makes it ready for wax or polishing. I have had EXCELLENT results using this system and have solved many paint issues with it. Highly recommend it. Hope that helps

this is the forum url http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14901

This is the original topic: How to: Removing embedded contaminents (grittyness) by clay.

Murr1525
Jun 26th, 2006, 06:59 AM
I wouldnt say it is better, but there are times you can get rail dust, etc ground/buried into the paint, and clay cant remove these as well.

I would say clay first, then go with something more agressive like that if you need to. I mean, something to dissolve rust/metal? It is going to be pretty strong.

irsankao
Apr 17th, 2008, 06:10 PM
I am curious about the facts of decontamination too.
Can experts explain this?

Michael Stoops
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:00 PM
This guy says this finish kare 3 step decontamination system is better than clay is that true??


Better? Hard to say without actually trying it myself, but the person commenting on it is either misunderstanding some things about the whole process (which I think is the case), or he took it straight from Finish Kare's website and they're not quite on (which, from a quick looksee at their site would indicate the poster to the mbworld forum is passing along inaccurate info).

For example: The first step removes all waxes, tar, and anything stuck on your paint. It works so well you will just see the water fully sheet off. This is what clay does; the removal of bonded surface contaminants. It's a very easy process that takes minimal time and effort depending on how bad the contaminants are.

The second step dissolves ferrous particles which are highly visible on white cars and other embedded contaminates instead of clay which just smoothes it out to the surrounding level of paint. It dissolves ferrous particles? I highly doubt this. Ferrous particles would include rail dust which tends to be quite noticeable on white cars because the tiny iron particles will actually rust, showing up as almost reddish spots. Clay will remove these, not just smooth them over. Considering how much tougher steel (ferrous metal) is than clay, this statement is simply not logical.

Then the third step is a wash which neutralizes the paint and makes it ready for wax or polishing.Really? You have to neutralize your paint before you can start polishing it? Why? And more importantly, how?

Looking at Finish Kare's website they have a pretty good flowchart for using this process and there are several steps involved. Now, I wouldn't be at all surprised that following all these steps will net you a very nice finish. But do you need all these steps to achieve what clay does in very short order, with very little work?

To me this looks like another answer to the question nobody asked, specifically: "Clay is very easy and effective to use, so is there something else out there that gets the same results for more money and that will require more of my time?"

Further, looking at many of their polishes, glazes, waxes, etc I see that many are sold in 15oz bottles in the mid $12.xx/bottle price range. Consider that a 32oz bottle of M80, M83 etc can be had for about a dollar more, this stuff is twice the money. Is it twice as good? I seriously doubt it. And speaking of price - to purchase everything needed to complete the Paint Decontamination process would cost you almost $60.00. The Smooth Surface Clay Kit is about $15.00. Certainly both can be used for multiple applications, but that's quite a premium.

3Fitty
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:08 AM
To me this looks like another answer to the question nobody asked, specifically: "Clay is very easy and effective to use, so is there something else out there that gets the same results for more money and that will require more of my time?"

:iagree:

There is also an element of, more time + more money = must be better than clay.

It is like marketing 101. There will always be a segment of the population which will believe more expensive will always be better. Often, people don't want simple (and inexpensive) solutions to issues (like clay).

If it ain't broke, no need to fix it!

Hemin8r
Apr 18th, 2008, 06:06 AM
Like Mike Phillips says
"Find something you like and use it often"

Clay works for me whether mild or aggressive depending on the condition of the paint. I've removed rail dust as well with the mild clay no problem. For me? no need to change.

Mike Phillips
Apr 18th, 2008, 06:14 AM
The original thread starter referenced the Finish Kare System, but for the sake of discussion, here's the other popular system on the market.

ValuGard ABC System (http://www.autoint.com/autostore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=225)


Just to chime in on this... I've personally never used either of the two decontamination wash systems on the market but Joe from Superior Shine keeps one of these in his arsenal of tool, or at least he used to, so knowing Joe it must have some benefit to it or he wouldn't use it.

Maybe he'll chime in with his experience using this product. :)

budman3
Apr 18th, 2008, 06:31 AM
Claying only shears off the top of contamination most of the time whereas a ABC wash aka decontamination wash actually removes any embedded contaminants from the paint. Claying gets the job done but these washes completely removes contamination.

CosmoTiki
Apr 18th, 2008, 07:12 AM
Just thinking out loud as I've not tried the Finish Kare product, I'm not sure how a product would "dissolve" iron filings (aka rail dust) w/o etching the surrounding paint surface. I would believe a statement that it neutralizes and removes the oxidation, but the entire filing? Not so much. I'd be interested to hear of any MOL members experience with the product.

The action of clay on removing rail dust is going to vary as the iron filings can lie on the surface, be partially embedded into the surface, or be mostly embedded in the surface depending on their temperature at time of surface contact, location of the vehicle on the train car, etc.

As such, there is no "silver bullet" to eliminating 100% of the rail dust w/o stripping & refinishing, and I'm not easily persuaded by unsubstantiated marketing claims, especially when there are reasonable methods to reducing the effects of rail dust. In my experience, clay is the safest and most effective means (although again, not 100%), followed by a good coat of protective wax.

irsankao
Apr 18th, 2008, 11:19 PM
From what I've understood, decoc is more like to remove rail dusts which can bloom/attack again if they don't completely removed however cars in my country are not delivered through railway system but on a truck which carries 4-6 cars in a go.
So I don't think I will be needing this though I am tempted to have one just for the 1% situation that might happen.

Just wondering after reading finish kare website. Is Floyd L Meguiar related to this meguiar? or just coincidence?

BigLeegr
Apr 24th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Just wondering after reading finish kare website. Is Floyd L Meguiar related to this meguiar? or just coincidence?
Was an uncle. Died recently.