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View Full Version : where to find an Meguiars abrasive scale



jays
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:23 AM
im looking for a scale that identifies the abrasiveness in products in order including some short info on how the product works i.e. wool/foam pad rps and so on

Mike Phillips
Jun 25th, 2004, 11:15 AM
Hi Jays,

Someone around here has a general list of products and the order in their aggressiveness. I have someting written in MSWord somewhere on my hard drive, I see if I can find it.

Mike

6318
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:43 AM
Not exactly what you were looking for...but here's a start...originally posted by Black Cat:

This list is coarses to finest
Mequiars Diamond Cut 2.0 M85 {formally Heavy Duty}
Mequiars Compound Power Cleaner M84
Mequiars Heavy Duty Oxidation Remover {Marine}
Mequiars Heavy Cut Cleaner #4
Mequiars Medium Cut Cleaner #1
Mequiars Color Restorer #44 {Marine}
Mequiars DACP-Dual Action Cleaner Polish M83
Mequiars Fine Cut Cleaner #2
Mequiars Medallion Paint Cleaner #97
Mequiars Scratch-X #108
Mequiars Body Scrub A10
Mequiars Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner A30
Mequiars Swirl Free Polish #82
Mequiars Swirl Remover #9

txz28
Jun 26th, 2004, 01:52 PM
This needs to be a sticky. It seems that I can never find it when I am looking for it.

Setec Astronomy
Aug 4th, 2004, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Hi Jays,

Someone around here has a general list of products and the order in their aggressiveness. I have someting written in MSWord somewhere on my hard drive, I see if I can find it.

Mike

Mike, did you ever find this? Or post it somewhere else?

Mike Phillips
Aug 4th, 2004, 06:59 AM
I don't know about the other manufactures, but if you call Meguiar’s no one there will be able to tell you the size of the abrasives used in our products. Mostly because it's a mute point.

That kind of assumes all abrasives are the same, the thing that will make them different, (more aggressive or less aggressive), is their size.

In other words, big rocks cut fast, little rocks cut slow.

In my work with R&D, I have found out that Meguiar's uses all kinds of different diminishing abrasives of different shapes, sizes, materials, sharpness, hardness, diminishing speed, etc.

It's a lot more complex than most people think, (not Autopian, but the general public). For example, Meguiar's PlastX (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=G-123) contains a unique abrasive in shape, material, sharpness, etc. It enables you to removes scratches, dulling and oxidation from plastic surfaces without leaving scratches behind. I demonstrate this by wet-sanding Plexiglas and then removing my sanding marks using this product by hand. Same idea behind a product like ScratchX.

#85 and #83 both use a microscopic diminishing abrasive that is hard to feel between your fingers, (It is easier to feel between on finger and paint). If you were to compare the size of the abrasive in these two products to the size of the abrasives used in the M-01 Medium Cut Cleaner and the M-04 Heavy-Cut cleaner, you would naturally think that the #1 and #4 are more aggressive because you can easily feel the abrasives in these products because they are much larger.

#84 and #85 will cut faster and cut longer than #1 and #4 because of they type of abrasive they use, not the size of the abrasive they use.

#85 is formulated to work with wool cutting pads.

#84 is formulated to work with foam cutting pads. It contains more lubricating oils to prevent heat build up than the #85.

Some of you call these oils fillers, but in fact they lubricate the surface and without them the abrasives could scour and scratch the surface. If the goal is to create beauty, and I know every time I bring my rotary buffer down on a finish it is), then these lubricating oils are very important. In Meguiar’s case, our lubricating oils add beauty also by increasing gloss and enriching the color and clarity.

Some products are formulated for use by hand, some products are formulated for use by machine, some products are formulated for use on softer paint, some products are formulated to work better on harder paints.

If all the abrasives were of the same type of material, the same shape, the same hardness, the same diminishing rate, (assuming they diminish, many abrasives don't), then it would be Simple Simon to rate all of them.

But they're not.

That's why I never finished a definitive list. I tried, and somewhere on my hard drive is a work in progress, but it became so complex to try to rank them because of all of the variables. Trying to compare Meguiar’s abrasive product to other companies abrasive product will never be an apples to apples, oranges to oranges comparison if for no other reason because of Meguiar’s TS Oils. Meguiar’s pure polishes have been used for decades to richen the color of paint even over what the paint manufacture that created the paint could do, this adds a beauty component to the equation that in my eyes, most other compounds, paint cleaners, and cleaner polishes have not been able to duplicate.

If you just want to measure how fast a product cuts or abrades the surface, this can be done, heck, we do that in our testing all the time. But polishing paint is an art forum, you have to consider all of the visual dimensions that only the human eye can discern into the equation. This is why we gave away, or sold our Gloss Meters years ago. They cannot measure what the human eye can see and that’s what matters most… after you’re all done, and you wipe off your LSP, does it look good to your eyes.

Mike

Setec Astronomy
Aug 4th, 2004, 08:14 AM
Thanks Mike. I've been away from this for a while, and back in the "old days" (about 15 years ago), it seemed a little simpler to pick from the professional products. I'm just trying to assemble my "arsenal", to have a selection of products to handle whatever comes up (I'm just a hobbyist, but sometimes help friends/relatives with their cars).

I ordered up some 80, 81, 82, and 83 (already have 9), figuring that would cover me, but I notice that some Autopians, who aren't Meguiar's purists (meaning they use predominantly other products) seem to use MPPC, DC1, ScratchX, etc. (and they love 83 DACP!)

So I wasn't really looking for the abrasiveness, per se, but how these products fit in with each other, particularly the overlap between the Pro and Consumer products. I DO realize how complicated this can be, but maybe you can give me your opinion as to whether I should have some of the consumer products on hand also or whether my above mentioned selection of Pro/Body Shop products is enough for prep work. I just recently got the Meguiar's PC unit, but may be applying products by hand, also.

Thanks in advance, Mike, and thanks to Meguiar's for providing this forum so we can ask you the same questions over and over, a little differently each time!

PS You have mentioned before that some of the products are more chemical rather than abrasive cleaners, is that true for some of the Pro/Body Shop products?

Mike Phillips
Aug 4th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Setec Astronomy
Thanks Mike. I've been away from this for a while, and back in the "old days" (about 15 years ago), it seemed a little simpler to pick from the professional products. I'm just trying to assemble my "arsenal", to have a selection of products to handle whatever comes up (I'm just a hobbyist, but sometimes help friends/relatives with their cars).

I ordered up some 80, 81, 82, and 83 (already have 9), figuring that would cover me, but I notice that some Autopians, who aren't Meguiar's purists (meaning they use predominantly other products) seem to use MPPC, DC1, ScratchX, etc. (and they love 83 DACP!)

That's interesting that you used the term, Meguiar's Purist. I use that term in my how-to book, (not published), and actually define it. :D :D :D


So I wasn't really looking for the abrasiveness, per se, but how these products fit in with each other, particularly the overlap between the Pro and Consumer products. I DO realize how complicated this can be, but maybe you can give me your opinion as to whether I should have some of the consumer products on hand also or whether my above mentioned selection of Pro/Body Shop products is enough for prep work. I just recently got the Meguiar's PC unit, but may be applying products by hand, also.

If you already have,

M-0916 Swirl Remover 2.0 (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?parentURL=index_pro.cfm&sku=M-09)
Speed Glaze (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?parentURL=index_pro.cfm&sku=M-80)
M-81 Hand Polish (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=M-81)
M-8232 Swirl Free Polish (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=M-82)
#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=M-83)

then you already have just about all the prep product you’ll need to tackle anything that comes along using the PC. I would suggest a tube of ScratchX (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=G-103), for removing isolated defects. Here’s a helpful how-to article on using ScratchX,

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1516)

Sometimes, applying ScratchX by hand direction over a defect can be faster and more effective then trying to remove the same defect with #83 DACP/W-8006/PC combo because you can apply focused presser directly over the defect whereas with the PC you will be applying pressure with a foam pad with a diameter of 6 inches.

If you don’t own a clay bar or clay cleaning system, then this would be a very important product to add to your arsenal. Meguiar’s recently switched to a new clay bar in their Quik Clay System (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=g-11) that works awesome!

All Meguiar’s waxes create stunning results by adding richness, depth, gloss and clarity to your car’s finish, a lot of times it just comes down to your eyes and personal preference as to which one is best. I’m personally fond of any of these,

Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax (http://www.meguiars.com/whatsnew/techwax.cfm)
ColorX (http://www.meguiars.com/whatsnew/colorx.cfm) (Used this yesterday on my Blazer)
M-26 Hi Tech Yellow Wax (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?sku=M-26) (Used this the day before on the Pilot)
#20 Polymer Sealant (http://www.meguiars.com/store_meguiars/product_detail.cfm?parentURL=index_pro.cfm&sku=M-20)


Tire dressings, interior care products and a whole host of other products from the Consumer line are always helpful for total car care.


Thanks in advance, Mike, and thanks to Meguiar's for providing this forum so we can ask you the same questions over and over, a little differently each time!

Thank you! I’ll pass this on to my boss so that he knows our customers appreciate the forum. I hope most of the members here view the Meguiar’s Online forum as a resource for information and an online community to share their passion with.


P.S.

You have mentioned before that some of the products are more chemical rather than abrasive cleaners, is that true for some of the Pro/Body Shop products?

Just to clarify, all but one Meguiar’s product that I’m aware of utilizes diminishing abrasives. This enables Meguiar’s compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes and cleaner/waxes to clean the surface without scratching or scouring the finish. The importance of this fact cannot be overstated.

As for our specific question, all of the compounds, paint cleaners, and cleaner/polishes in the Professional Line use some form of diminishing abrasive. Most/all of them contain some type of chemical cleaner too.

Hope this helps…

Mike

Setec Astronomy
Aug 4th, 2004, 04:03 PM
Not to go on and on Mike, but which is the product that has only chemical cleaners? And for hand application, for general paint prep (rather than a localized scratch), are you suggesting the ScratchX, or one of 80, 81, 82, 83, rather than DC1 or MPPC? Or should I just get a bottle of each? ;)

Thanks again!

BTW...I have trouble deciding at restaurants with big menus, also!:o

Setec Astronomy
Aug 9th, 2004, 11:28 PM
Being a "scientist", I had to keep at this until I really understood how all these products fit together. Although I would like to believe that the myriad Meguiar's products include a lot of the same stuff in different bottles, I don't think this is really true (with the possible exception of the 00 Wash and the Soft Wash Gel). I just couldn't get my head around all the products...until I thought of it differently. The breakthrough was realizing that the Meguiar's 5-Step Cycle, when you remove the washing and the maintaining, is a 3-step process (1--cleaning, 2--polishing/glazing, and 3--waxing/protecting), and that the myriad of products are all mixing and variations of the 3 steps.

What I mean is this: you can use 3 separate products, or you can use a cleaner and a polish/wax, or use a cleaner/polish and a wax, or you can simply use a cleaner/wax. Mix in some different levels of aggressiveness, and you can split out all the consumer/pro/bodyshop products that an amateur/semi/pro detailer would use into 6 groups:

1. Cleaners (least to most aggressive):
DC1
Body Scrub
MPPC
ScratchX

2. Cleaner/Polishes (least to most aggressive)
#9
#82
#80
#83

3. Polishes
#7
DC2
#81

4. Polish/Waxes
Gold Class
MPCC

5. Waxes
NXT
#26
#16
DC3

6. Cleaner/Waxes (least to most aggressive)
#20
A-12 Cleaner/Wax
#6
ColorX

Maybe this was obvious to everyone but me, but now I can understand that every product has a place, depending on the condition of the surface, how many steps you want to do, and how you want to mix the steps (if at all). Picking how you want to do it, what is appropriate, what looks best to you, that's all part of The Art of Polishing Paint (Mike Phillips’ forthcoming e-book).

I guess I really DO need a bottle of each (what is the Meguiar’s stock selling for now? ;) ) Mike P., I’m sorry if I stole any of your thunder with this :bow …if you agree with my analysis please feel free to edit this post with the full product names, links to the products and your book.

DetailManiac
Apr 19th, 2006, 09:30 AM
I found this one:

Cut meter (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10662&highlight=cut+meter)

Hope this helps:)

DetailManiac
Apr 19th, 2006, 09:35 AM
I also found this one ( not 100% Meg's ):

Products Chart (http://dano.pocketrubbish.com/detailing/productchart.htm)

Mort Corey
Apr 19th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Sorry if I'm taking a tangent, but I don't see #16 paste wax listed on this site yet it's referred to often. Am I missing something?

Mort

matt colvin
Apr 19th, 2006, 10:36 AM
The #16 professional paste wax has been discontinued.

hacker-pschorr
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:11 AM
I found this thread - a bit outdated since some products are NLA.
So if I'm starting to understand this product line, this is how they fall together starting with the least agressive:

Consumer paint cleaner
M09 - Swirl Remover
M82 - Swirl Free Polish
M80 - Speed Glaze
M83 - Dual Action Cleaner / Polish
M02 - Fine Cut Cleaner
The following are not D/A safe:
M01 - Medium Cut Cleaner
M04 - Heavey Cut Cleaner
M84 - Compound Power Cleaner
M85 - Ciamond Cut Compound

I'm not sure where the new stuff comes in:
M105 Ultra-Cut Compound
M95 Speed-Cut Compound

mattaleca
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:35 AM
I found this thread - a bit outdated since some products are NLA.
So if I'm starting to understand this product line, this is how they fall together starting with the least agressive:

Consumer paint cleaner
M09 - Swirl Remover
M82 - Swirl Free Polish
M80 - Speed Glaze
M83 - Dual Action Cleaner / Polish
M02 - Fine Cut Cleaner
The following are not D/A safe:
M01 - Medium Cut Cleaner
M04 - Heavey Cut Cleaner
M84 - Compound Power Cleaner
M85 - Ciamond Cut Compound

I though M01 medium cut could be used on a D/A????

hacker-pschorr
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:39 AM
I though M01 medium cut could be used on a D/A????
Don't quote me on this, I'm not 100% sure myself. I was just going off the info from this thread:
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12696

I wish the Meguiar's site would either say yes or no on the D/A subject, or at least post the entire label.

I'm making sure I understand all of this before ordering a D/A and everything to go with it. I want to have a small bottle of the most abrasive product on hand "just in case".
One of my cars is going to need a lot of TLC after the winter we've had up here.

Playr
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:46 AM
M01 CAN be applied via D/A.

Both M95 and M105 are new and appear to be one notch more aggressive than M85.

FYI, M105 can be applied via hand or rotary where M95 can be applied by rotary only.

roushstage2
Mar 12th, 2008, 11:00 AM
I don't think M01 can, but M02 Fine Cut Cleaner (New Formula) can.

Playr
Mar 12th, 2008, 11:21 AM
RS2,

According to Meg's trusty 2008 professional line brochure (pg 9) it can. I got it from Saturday's class. Maybe Mike can give the last word? I was planning on using M01 on my G110 to remove heavy oxidation from a pickup so it would be nice to know.

hacker-pschorr
Mar 12th, 2008, 11:39 AM
According to Meg's trusty 2008 professional line brochure (pg 9) it can. I got it from Saturday's class.
Where can I get one of those?

Playr
Mar 12th, 2008, 11:54 AM
I got mine from attending the open detail class on Saturday.