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Graeme
Dec 12th, 2006, 12:31 AM
Not very happy with ScratchX (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17443)



Well I'm very disappointed with this product, it seems it works like a charm for everyone else but not for me? Could it be a dud tube of scratchx or am I the dumbest detailer out there?


I got a small amount of bird poop on the roof, after trying ScratchX 4 times with a LOT of pressure it did nothing.

I noticed a small scratch on my rear bumper about 6 inches long and very faint, once again after using ScratchX with a LOT of pressure it did nothing the scratch remains the same. I have attached a picture below of the scratch.

I read the different threads about it etc and I have Worked the product in, I have done this about 5 times with no result at all.

I cannot feel the scratch at all when I run my fingernail over it.

Now I am very frustrated and annoyed :mad:

This is a closeup using Macro Mode. You can just see the scratch between the arrows

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Scratch.jpg


Graeme

duy_k2000
Dec 12th, 2006, 12:59 AM
Well I'm very disappointed with this product, it seems it works like a charm for everyone else but not for me? Could it be a dud tube of scratchx or am I the dumbest detailer out there?


I got a small amount of bird poop on the roof, after trying ScratchX 4 times with a LOT of pressure it did nothing.

I noticed a small scratch on my rear bumper about 6 inches long and very faint, once again after using ScratchX with a LOT of pressure it did nothing the scratch remains the same. I have attached a picture below of the scratch.

I read the different threads about it etc and I have Worked the product in, I have done this about 5 times with no result at all.

I cannot feel the scratch at all when I run my fingernail over it.

Now I am very frustrated and annoyed :mad:

This is a closeup using Macro Mode. You can just see the scratch between the arrows

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Scratch.jpg


Graeme

I am very new to car detailing and Meg's product. But I have used ScratchX and seen it remove minor scratches. Maybe you should try this:
1) Clean and clay the surface.
2) Cover up half of the scratch with some masking tape
3) Now use a terry cloth or MF to work scratchX in different directions with some passions. It may take more than 1 applications.
4) Remeber you have to work till scratchx has broken down.
5) after wiping off the surface, remove the masking tape and compare.

If you see improvement, then good. If not, maybe you need to try something more abrassive. Like all product, ScratchX has its limit. It works for what it's designed to do (remove minor scratches).

Good luck.

bernard78
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:46 AM
Hi Graeme, U need to work it - meaning with pressure & "heat"..... rubbing hard & fast. Actually if u understand why Rotary or a Random Orbital works better than hand is the fact that they are faster & create some heat to enable breaking down the dimishning abrasive & to work effectively.

showcargarage.com

U look at mike's vid sample on how he does it. Also use a bit more of it. It works better this was. It takes a bit of practice. I was facing similar problems at 1st too. Not all scratches can be cure. I feel swirls are easier to cure than scratches. One must understand like duy_k2000 said it has its limits too. Hehehe. Give it a try & see how? Let us know the results. Since u are gonna get the Random Orbital, why not then use M80 Speed Glaze to fix it all. Hehehe. :)

yakky
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:50 AM
I'll start out by say I really love a lot of Meguiars products. ColorX and #40 are some of my favorites. However I too was unimpressed with the bite of ScratchX. I was hoping for something along the lines of a rubbing compound that finished out smooth. To me it just seems like a strong polish. I could definately see a user expecting it to work miracles and not getting very far. You definately have to keep working it for a long time.

gorin002
Dec 12th, 2006, 03:56 AM
i appoldges sound like me with scrtach remvers:laughing hahahahaha
sory just i tryed few wanna try scratchX seemd scrtaches wil stay

Graeme
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:03 AM
Hi Graeme, U need to work it - meaning with pressure & "heat"..... rubbing hard & fast.

Hi Bernard, Thanks for the reply. I used a Meg's applicator and I was rubbing as hard and fast as I could. The applicator WAS feeling rather hot.


I could definately see a user expecting it to work miracles and not getting very far. You definately have to keep working it for a long time.

Thanks for the reply yakky,
I didn't expect it to perform miracle but I did expect it to remove the scratch, but I didnt expect it to remove all of the bird poop but I did expect it to greatly reduce it to a point it was hard to see.

Graeme

Graeme
Dec 12th, 2006, 04:06 AM
i appoldges sound like me with scrtach remvers:laughing hahahahaha
sory just i tryed few wanna try scratchX seemd scrtaches wil stay

Hopefully I will look back on this and laugh :) At the moment I am really frustrated as I don't know if its me or the product. Although I would hedge a bet its me :( . I will have another go at it tomorrow and see how it turns. This time I will try a MF or TT.

Graeme

Mike Phillips
Dec 12th, 2006, 07:20 AM
Posted in another thread a long time ago but most of the information fits here...

###################


Someone else on another forum was asking about ScratchX and in their question they stated that Meguiar's claimed ScratchX would remove any scratch in your finish. I chimed in and did my best to clarify what can and cannot be done with ScratchX.

First off, no where on the label does it say ScratchX will remove ANY scratch from your paint.

In fact what it does say is that if ScratchX cannot remove a scratch or blemish, then only a machine applied professional formula will do the job.

Here is the back label in its entirety,



ScratchX is the most effective way to remove fine scratches and swirls from your paint by hand. This product is guaranteed to deliver the highest results possible by hand and it will also remove surface contaminant and enhance paint color. Unlike many of today's scratch removing formulas, Meguiar's ScratchX will not leave more scratched than it takes out. Use for quick touch ups on one section, or revive your cars look with a an application to the entire vehicle. If ScratchX cannot remove a scratch or blemish, only machine applied professional formulas can do the job. Please call our technical help center toll free for further assistance on how to restore your finish.

I answer questions like this all the time and explain how it works.

Basically, modern clear coats are incredibly hard, at least relative to traditional paints. For this reason, you are very limited in what you can do with your hand. In order to remove a scratch from your finish, you must remove a certain amount of paint from the finish in an effort to level or flatten out the finish.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2scratchesinpaint.jpg



Thus the problem is, how do you remove small particles of paint in a controlled fashion in an effort to level the highest points of the surface with the lowest depths of the scratch?

The answer is, with catalyzed clear coat finishes, baked on at the factory, it is extremely difficult. That's why the back label says,

ScratchX is the most effective way to remove fine scratches and swirls from your paint by hand.

It's not perfect, but it's as effective as you and your 4 digits pushing down on a foam applicator can be.

If this combination won't remove the scratches, then it will require the application of machine applied compound, paint cleaner, or cleaner polish, (In the Meguiar's line). Which, the back label also states clearly.

Thus the increased popularity of the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher and products like Meguiar's #83 DACP, (Dual Action Cleaner Polish).

Does the product work? Yes, if the scratches and swirls are very light and the paint isn't so hard that a human cannot remove small particles of paint with their hand. In most cases, if you cannot completely remove the scratches, swirls or blemishes, you can at least improve them. Which for a lot of Joe Consumers, is good enough. Then apply a coat of wax and move on.

This product can be used for spot areas or on the entire car. Tomorrow we'll be doing a photo shoot for Vette Magazine using a black Corvette, and we'll be showing how to use ScratchX by hand, probably over the entire finish. We have not seen the Corvette yet, (Belongs to the senior editor of Super Chevy magazine), and the first thing Meguiar's always teaches is to first evaluate the finish, then select your products.

This product is not intended for use by machine because it tends to become gummy when heated. It was brought out to compete against gimmicky products like the other scratch removers in a tube that can potentially instill scratches into your finish because unlike Meguiar's they use abrasives that do not break down.

Thus the wording,

Unlike many of today's scratch removing formulas, Meguiar's ScratchX will not leave more scratches than it removes.

Once in a while we have to help someone who scratches their paint when using this product, in each case that we can remember, it was always because of their application material, i.e. a tatty rag, or a red shop rag, etc. or rubbing like a wild man.

Producing a flawless finish is a combination of the right products and the right application materials with the human elements of care and passion.

Note: After using the ScratchX, you need to apply a coat or two of your favorite wax as ScratchX is a paint cleaner, not a paint protectant.

Anyway, hope this helps...

Mike Phillips
Dec 12th, 2006, 07:36 AM
We're not going to say you're doing something wrong as removing scratches by hand out of todays modern paints can be very difficult, in other words, removing paint by hand with a gentle paint cleaner like ScratchX can be very difficult.

At the same time, in the last 3 years, we've had many, many, many people come to our Saturday class, or our Wednesday night class and show us a scratch or a bird drooping etching that they couldn't remove using ScratchX. So then we try and in most cases the scratch or bird dropping etching gets removed.

It's not Meguiar's fault the paints changed. You can't simply make a scratch remover real aggressive or gritty to make it remove paint easier and more quickly because it will then leave scratches behind, this is why old fashioned rubbing and polishing compounds cannot be used on modern clear coat paints. Sure they remove the original defect, but they leave behind thousands of their own scratches in the process... now what?

To remove a swirls or scratch out of a scratch-sensitive paint like a clear coat you have to take a gentle approach, not an aggressive approach. The more difficult the job, the more important your technique becomes.

And remember what the back label states,

"If ScratchX does not remove the defect, then only a machine applied professional product will"


It's not Meguiar's fault the paint have changed, we do our best to make products that enable you to be successful when you go out into your garage to work on your car, but if you're not successful, it could be because of factors outside of our control.

One of the reasons the dual action polisher has become so popular is because the average person, and even the skilled enthusiasts has discovered that removing swirls out of clear coat paints is extremely difficult to do to a small area, let alone the entire car.

Removing Random, Isolated, Deeper Scratches, (RIDS), is also very hard and can be impossible if the scratches are too deep and/or the paint is too hard.


p.s.


The owner of the Viper used in the how-to article tried ScratchX to remove the etching left by the bird dropping and flat out told us the product didn't work. Then we applied it 3 times and removed 99% of the etching.

How to remove a defect by hand using ScratchX (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1516)

The above scenario has been played out hundreds of times at our classes and the fun part is when you're demonstrating how it works is you get to have about 30 people watch live in person. :D

yakky
Dec 12th, 2006, 07:55 AM
Hi Mike, I hope I'm not going against forum rules, but I have found ZPC to do what I wanted ScratchX to do. It starts out very coarse and finishes out very smooth, even by hand. I had two scrapes like the initial poster that came out with 15 minutes work per scrape. I don't like the price of that product though. :D I can take a picuture of all my Meguiars products to prove my allegiance. ;)

Mike Phillips
Dec 12th, 2006, 08:05 AM
Hi Mike, I hope I'm not going against forum rules, but I have found ZPC to do what I wanted ScratchX to do. It starts out very coarse and finishes out very smooth, even by hand. I had two scrapes like the initial poster that came out with 15 minutes work per scrape. I don't like the price of that product though. :D I can take a picuture of all my Meguiars products to prove my allegiance. ;)

I found the product left finger marks everywhere I tested it, of course I tested it on a black car, what color did you test on?

gorin002
Dec 12th, 2006, 08:27 AM
wowwww.am knocked out
if i can`t remove the scatches i pref leave them than some agrassive chemical

wel
Graeme you and i have some work to do with mike instructions
think you need to more faith in your self

Jeepster04
Dec 12th, 2006, 08:31 AM
Ive removed some fairly bad scratches in my clear. My Jeep gets a few scratches every time I go offroad and Ive never had problems removing the scratches with scratch-x. :coolgleam

Lydia
Dec 12th, 2006, 10:21 AM
ScratchX works great IME. One thing I noticed is it didn't work as well if I used to much, or if I didn't rub it in until it had broken down all the way to the point it was just like a greasy film.

yakky
Dec 12th, 2006, 10:35 AM
I found the product left finger marks everywhere I tested it, of course I tested it on a black car, what color did you test on?

I tested on medium metallic blue. What do you mean by finger marks? Lines where you used the abrasive and had your fingers?

Mike Phillips
Dec 12th, 2006, 10:53 AM
I tested on medium metallic blue. What do you mean by finger marks? Lines where you used the abrasive and had your fingers?

Yeah, basically scratch impressions from the abrasives being rubbed across the paint. Didn't see this by machine, only when hand applied using a clean foam applicator pad. I can see if we have the pictures, if not it's easy enough to duplicate.

ScratchX doesn't do this.

yakky
Dec 12th, 2006, 11:14 AM
Yeah, basically scratch impressions from the abrasives being rubbed across the paint. Didn't see this by machine, only when hand applied using a clean foam applicator pad. I can see if we have the pictures, if not it's easy enough to duplicate.

ScratchX doesn't do this.

Interesting, I applied via Costco Yellow MF and it came out nice and smooth. I haven't had issue via machine either. Next time I use it by hand I'll pay attention to it.

Graeme
Dec 12th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Thanks everyone for you replies :) I will have another go today. Just a couple of things....

What amount would I use, when do I stop and wipe off? When its dry or does it go very clear like U have rubbed it all off? and how much pressure do I need to use?
I would like the above answered before I start, that way I know then that I am doing it right.

Thank you all again for taking the time to reply

graeme

Larry A
Dec 12th, 2006, 12:05 PM
What if you start with rubbing compound, and finish with Scratch X. The compound to remove the scratch and the Scratch X to remove the compound haze.

Mike Phillips
Dec 12th, 2006, 12:08 PM
Thanks everyone for you replies :) I will have another go today. Just a couple of things....

What amount would I use, when do I stop and wipe off? When its dry or does it go very clear like U have rubbed it all off? and how much pressure do I need to use?
I would like the above answered before I start, that way I know then that I am doing it right.

Thank you all again for taking the time to reply

graeme

Only work about 5 to 6 inches of the scratch at a time, first see if you can make a small section of it go away, then cookie-cutter your results over the rest of the scratch.

Not sure how deep this scratch is, but we've seen similar scratches that look as thought they were put in with a razor blade, so they are thin, but deep, in these case you cannot remove them at all.

When applying to remove a 5-6 inch section, use about a teaspoon of product, in your situation, better to use too much than too little. Spread the product out over the section your working, and move your applicator pad across the scratch, not in line with it, actually at an angel to it is a good practice. You can even rub in two different angles with repeated applications.

Rub using around 8 to 15 pounds of pressure to the pad and move you hand in a back and forth direction quickly, like you're a machine.

"Be the pad"

as Chevy Chase would say...

Apply until what starts out to be an opaque/whitish film turns to an oily looking film then remove. Don't pay any attention to the directions that direct you to let the product dry, these are wrong. See this article,

Then wipe off the residue and repeat until you done this at least 3 times. After each application and removal, inspect to see if you notice any improvement. If with each application it gets harder to see where you applied the product then continue until it's gone you feel to any further could go through the clear coat.

If you see absolutely no improvement after 3 applications, then the scratch is either very deep and you're actually improving it, (this means you're remove the paint surround the scratch but because the scratch is so deep you cannot and will not see any improvement).

Or

The paint is so hard that you cannot remove small particles of the paint by hand.

If you were nearby, we would love to have a go at it just because we love a challenge.

Graeme
Dec 12th, 2006, 05:43 PM
Thanks Mike for taking the time to reply and outline how to do it properly.

I appreciate it. I will have another go and post the results here when I am done.

Once again Thank you :)

Graeme

sub0
Dec 12th, 2006, 08:50 PM
I have the same problem too. I try and try and try the scratch still there over a year now and I give up. The reason I am here today is because someone ran into my van and leave some hairline scratch on my real bumper.
Now I am looking for something to take it out. It just scratch and no paint lost. Anyone here have any good product I should try. The bumper is plastic of cause.

Thanks !
Sub0

sneek
Dec 12th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Maybe try something one the PC. ScratchX is kind of mild.
Does your finger nail catch the edges of the scratch?

BTW: Where in Canada are you?

Graeme
Dec 13th, 2006, 12:16 AM
I have the same problem too. I try and try and try the scratch still there over a year now and I give up.

Well I have managed to get rid of the scratch and the etching from the bird poop.
You have to rub really fast and hard for quite a while, you want to feel the heat. It took 4 goes to get rid of it.
All I can say is have another go, you might be like me and do it the right way this time :)

Graeme

Anonincog
Dec 13th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Bernard 78 early on in this thread mentioned a vid sample by Mike. Can I get the link to this video? I would love to see a recording of how to use scratchX.

CorruptedSanity
May 11th, 2008, 10:29 PM
I know its been a while but this thread is really helpful, so I'd like to ask.

Can I do the whole car? I have a Porsche Cayman S with some light swirl marks on the roof,bonnet and trunk.

I was thinking of first washing, then claying then using Zymol's HD Cleanse (supposed to be a filler - nonabrasive) then wax. Now that ive been instroduced to Scratchx im thinking of washing then claying then scratchX then HDCleanse (its supposed to help the wax - also Zymol- bond more/faster to the paint).

I know for sure ill use Scratchx before I HD-Cleanse and after I clay on a bird poop on my roof. I know that HD Cleanse is not an abrasive (more of a filler as I understand). So should I incorporate ScratchX on the whole car?

Thanks

Derrick
May 11th, 2008, 10:49 PM
Can I do the whole car? I have a Porsche Cayman S with some light swirl marks on the roof,bonnet and trunk.

Yes you can do the whole car with scratchX if you wish but it will be alot of work if you are working by hand. Also ScratchX is also a paint cleaner so there is really no need to follow with another cleaner. After scratchX you can move straight to polishing and waxing but that is just a sugestion. I would suggest your process look something like this if working by hand
wash
clay
ScratchX
polish
wax

CorruptedSanity
May 11th, 2008, 10:52 PM
I guess ill do a hybrid.

Ill

- wash
- clay
- apply scratchX to heavily swirled areas
- apply HD - cleanse ( I love the results from this product)
- wax

Nappers
May 11th, 2008, 11:09 PM
I guess ill do a hybrid.

Ill

- wash
- clay
- apply scratchX to heavily swirled areas
- apply HD - cleanse ( I love the results from this product)
- wax

It can be done by hand, but it's a hard days work.

good order to do things, the HD cleanse may not be necessary but if you like it then by all means Git R' Done:D :D

Put some passion behind the pad and do more than 1-2 passes and work a small area like 12X12 or smaller if your patient.

in case you didn't see these write ups:

How to remove defect with ScratchX (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1516)

How to remove swirls using ScratchX (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7011) - Awesome write up, you can see what they started with and what they ended with :D

Then save your pennies for a PC :D your arms and back will thank you:D

Aaron

NickJRE
May 25th, 2008, 04:43 PM
I guess ill do a hybrid.

Ill

- wash
- clay
- apply scratchX to heavily swirled areas
- apply HD - cleanse ( I love the results from this product)
- wax


ScratchX is the best by hand scratch remover I've ever used and I've used quite a few............

However, Honestly, if I were you, I'd really invest in a Meguiars G110 dual action polisher, it takes so much less time and in my opinion the final result is worth the money spent on the polisher, it really is that much better by hand.

Emig5m
May 26th, 2008, 07:10 AM
I find using the foam pads a waste of time with ScratchX. I seem to get twice to three times the polishing/cutting power with ScratchX when using it with a microfiber rag. I painted a spot on my bumper once and after the wet sanding all I had to use to take out the wet sanding scratches and bring it back to better then showroom shine (no orange peel in wet sanded paint, heh) was ScratchX and a microfiber.

In fact yesterday I used ScratchX on my factory painted rims, my goal was just to clean them real good (Turtle Wax Platinum tire gel ran off a little and stained/turned some areas of the metallic silver paint brownish - I switched to hyperdressing shown in the pic below) and there where scratches/nicks that looked like it was down to the base metal but it came out with ease in just one pass. If you're working by hand, don't waste time with foam pads and use microfibers. Heck, on my rims I was using my oldest and shoddiest grime area microfibers and it still came out mint - like I said, my objective was just to clean them and it took out some pretty nasty scratches that visually looked like they might be all the way down to the base coat (I'm not the original owner of the vehicle), but, they came out with ease.. Everything except the curb rash on the outer lip that is definitely down to the base metal.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x106/emig5m/my%20vehicles/hyperdressing_tire.jpg

Look at them, they look mint now. I never thought to take before pictures since most of the scratches I thought would never come out - if you could of only seen them before.