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Mike Phillips
Apr 24th, 2007, 07:36 AM
The Clearcoat Failure Photo Archive (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20411)


We get so many questions for help from people trying to fix the paint on their car when the problem they're dealing with is un-fixable in that it's what we call Clear Coat Failure.

Many people confuse Clearcoat Failure with Oxidation and while clearcoat failure can be caused by oxidation and part of clearcoat failure can be oxidized clearcoat paint, clearcoat failure and oxidation are different categories of paint problems.


Oxidation is a problem more associated with older single stage paints while clearcoat failure is a problem specific to clearcoat paints. Because we're going on 3 generations of consumers only owning cars with clearcoat finishes and never owning a car with a single stage paint there tends to be some confusion over exactly what the problem looks like so this thread is to document with photos all kinds of examples of clearcoat failure in the 3 different general stages.


Photos of Clearcoat Failure

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/IMG_1514.JPG

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/600_ClearcoatFailure.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Preludehood.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/paintisshot.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/img030.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/1998_DodgeDakotaHood_1.JPG



This is the beginning of clear coat failure, note how the paint is turning cloudy or hazy but it's not yet flaking off.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2600_8_30_06OG003.JPG


These 3 pictures show the last stage of clear coat failure, the clear coat has turned white and began to flake off. The car looks like it has a bad rash. This is not oxidation, but the extreme deterioration of the clear layer of paint over the color coat. There is nothing you can do to fix this problem except to repaint the car.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/870Trunk.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/870Roof.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/9904.JPG


More pictures of clear coat failure...
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/clearcoatfailure005.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/clearcoatfailure006.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/clearcoatfailure007.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/clearcoatfailure008.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/clearcoatfailure009.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/clearcoatfailure010.jpg


http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1044/1212081244.jpg



Just to note... Clear Coat Failure is not a problem --> on <-- the paint, as in on the surface, but it is a deterioration or breakdown of the paint itself. By this we mean the damage is --> in <-- the paint, as in... throughout the matrix of the layer of paint.

This is why you can't apply a topical paint cleaner to clear coat failure and fix the problem.

Does that make sense?

The only honest repair for clearcoat failure is to repaint the affected area or the entire car.

OhioCarBuff
Apr 24th, 2007, 09:07 AM
What is the exact cause of clearcoat failure? I've seen cars that were extremely neglected that did not get CC failure, and some that were mildly neglected that did.

It looks to me like CC failure happens beucase the paint dries out, I assume the polishing oils in meguiars products would prevent this, given they are sealed in with a wax.

PorscheGuy997
Apr 24th, 2007, 12:52 PM
There are a number of things that can cause clearcoat failure.

1. Thin clear / wet sanded too far
2. Frequent sun exposure
3. No protectant (most common reason)
4. Paint has dried out.

As for the pictures, I can hear Taps being played in the background. All those clearcoats that gave up after abuse.....

Tim Lingor
Apr 24th, 2007, 02:52 PM
Hey,

Let's also had high engine temps! Some trucks from towing heavy loads can develop cracks in the CC due to the temperatures under the hood. You can take care of the paint as much as humanly possible and still develop CC failure.

Tim

gb387
Apr 24th, 2007, 02:57 PM
Hey,

Let's also had high engine temps! Some trucks from towing heavy loads can develop cracks in the CC due to the temperatures under the hood. You can take care of the paint as much as humanly possible and still develop CC failure.

Tim

Thats interesting, you learn something new new everyday!
:)

Lydia
Apr 24th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Hey,

Let's also had high engine temps! Some trucks from towing heavy loads can develop cracks in the CC due to the temperatures under the hood. You can take care of the paint as much as humanly possible and still develop CC failure.

Tim


I'm glad I know that now! I've wondered many times why my truck, which is still fairly young, already has clear coat failure. Thanks! :xyxthumbs


Mike, What about the cracks in the clear coat? It seems like a much different type of clear coat failure, but it is failure none the less. Do you have any good pictures to add to the thread showing that? Just a suggestion...

Edit: On second thought, I also have the CC cracks on my truck roof. Any idea how that happened?

PorscheGuy997
Apr 22nd, 2008, 02:17 PM
Had some fun with my new macro lense.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/clear3.jpg

You can see the tiny cracks in the clear. This is basically a different form of clearcoat failure.

...pollen is sticking to everything, too...

J. A. Michaels
Apr 22nd, 2008, 02:21 PM
Add me to the group that never knew about high engine temps adding to hood clear coat failure. Very interesting.

ZoranC
Apr 22nd, 2008, 11:20 PM
Let's also had high engine temps! Some trucks from towing heavy loads can develop cracks in the CC due to the temperatures under the hood. You can take care of the paint as much as humanly possible and still develop CC failure.

+1 Same goes for turbo cars (ask me how I know LOL). You can see difference in the clear / single stage paint in the area that is over the turbo.

Setec Astronomy
Apr 23rd, 2008, 06:17 PM
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/clear3.jpg

You can see the tiny cracks in the clear. This is basically a different form of clearcoat failure.

Yeah, but that is a bird-poop failure.

Sprzout
Apr 23rd, 2008, 10:35 PM
Wow...Looks like I need to add some pictures of my grandmother's Saturn, which has severe clearcoat failure, and post it here...It's so bad the clear is peeling up in flakes, just like when you get a sunburn and your skin peels.

Expect some pictures tomorrow!

Mike Phillips
Apr 24th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Just to note, the original purpose of this thread was to show people what clear coat failure look like because so many people come to the forum explaining their car has oxidation and want to know if we make a product that will remove it and what they really have is Clear Coat Failure and there is NO PRODUCT that you can pour out of a bottle or scoop out of a can that will fix clear coat failure.

The only honest answer as to how to fix clear coat failure is to either re-paint the affected panel or panels or the entire car.

We never like sharing this kind of answer because most people are hoping for to fix the problem by buying a bottle of 'something', they aren't considering having the old Ford Taurus re-painted.

So if you have some good examples of clear coat failure, then please add them to this thread.

This by the way is Oxidation, see how the front portion of the car is dull with a whitish color to the red paint?

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/637/74MBextrememakeover025.jpg


See the same thing on this deck lid except where Paul rubbed some M80 Speed Glaze and cut through the oxidation to expose virgin red paint?

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/637/74MBextrememakeover005.jpg


In most cases, oxidation can be removed and a new looking finish restored, you can't do this with a car that has clear coat failure.

Before - Yes the paint is actually turning from red to white in some places due to extreme oxidation.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2450MLBefore2.jpg

After
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2450SLfinished1.jpg


:)

PorscheGuy997
Apr 24th, 2008, 08:05 AM
Yeah, but that is a bird-poop failure.

I took this with a macro lens, so the size is 6x the original. The hood is also covered with these check like clearcoat cracks. It is a sign that the panel is experiencing clearcoat failure.

Sprzout
Apr 24th, 2008, 10:31 AM
Just to note, the original purpose of this thread was to show people what clear coat failure look like because so many people come to the forum explaining their car has oxidation and want to know if we make a product that will remove it and what they really have is Clear Coat Failure and there is NO PRODUCT that you can pour out of a bottle or scoop out of a can that will fix clear coat failure.

The only honest answer as to how to fix clear coat failure is to either re-paint the affected panel or panels or the entire car.

We never like sharing this kind of answer because most people are hoping for to fix the problem by buying a bottle of 'something', they aren't considering having the old Ford Taurus re-painted.

So if you have some good examples of clear coat failure, then please add them to this thread.

This by the way is Oxidation, see how the front portion of the car is dull with a whitish color to the red paint?

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/637/74MBextrememakeover025.jpg


See the same thing on this deck lid except where Paul rubbed some M80 Speed Glaze and cut through the oxidation to expose virgin red paint?

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/637/74MBextrememakeover005.jpg


In most cases, oxidation can be removed and a new looking finish restored, you can't do this with a car that has clear coat failure.

Before - Yes the paint is actually turning from red to white in some places due to extreme oxidation.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2450MLBefore2.jpg

After
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2450SLfinished1.jpg


:)

Out of curiosity, can oxidization occur on a clearcoated car? I've only seen examples of it on what looks like single stage paint, so really haven't a clue if it can happen on a clearcoated car...

Setec Astronomy
Apr 24th, 2008, 05:58 PM
I took this with a macro lens, so the size is 6x the original. The hood is also covered with these check like clearcoat cracks. It is a sign that the panel is experiencing clearcoat failure.

It's your car, so I can't really know, but IMO that paint failure was initiated by bird poop or something similar.

Sprzout
Apr 24th, 2008, 06:42 PM
Here's some photos of a 1998 Saturn that my grandmother has been driving, with severe clearcoat failure:

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/741/ccfailure1.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/741/ccfailure2.jpg
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/741/ccfailure3.jpg

Severe peeling of the clearcoat on a car that has certainly seen better days...We used to take good care of this car, washing & waxing it; now it resides at an apartment complex that is right under the final approach path of Gillespie Field, a small planes airport in San Diego County. That, combined with blistering summer heat and lack of car care by my grandmother (she hoses it off maybe twice a year, despite me telling her to wash it more often than that before the clearcoat failed), has added to the quicker failure of the paint.

EAT HEMI
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:05 AM
Thanks Mike. My entire drive home I was looking at the paint on other cars for clear coat failure.

I have already found myself evaluating swirls and cobwebs on cars already in parking lots. Thanks for contributing to my APED (Automotive Paint Evaluators Disease)

99 softy
Aug 9th, 2008, 04:41 AM
I worked at a dealership in the early 90's. I cannot remember the body type it was either the corsica or the cavalier. Any way we repainted thousands of tops and hoods because of a adhesion problem from GM. You could blow the clear off with your air gun.

EnvisionDetailing
Aug 13th, 2008, 11:25 AM
Wow, that red really came back! Did you do that one by hand, or using a buffer?

JOCKTHEGLIDE
Sep 13th, 2008, 07:54 AM
is there a way to prevent the clear coat failure or is that something ineveitable over time? this happened to my old honda car while in AZ heat of course? I always kept trying to wax it to clear the blemich, but no worky lol.........

Mike Phillips
Sep 15th, 2008, 08:57 AM
is there a way to prevent the clear coat failure or is that something inevitable over time? this happened to my old Honda car while in AZ heat of course? I always kept trying to wax it to clear the blemish, but no worky lol.........


The sun is a formidable enemy to your car's paint, (and just about everything else). Except for what you're already doing, (regular maintenance), and keeping the car out of the sun there's not much else you can do.


:scratchhead1

bluecadillac
Sep 24th, 2008, 01:44 AM
I worked at a dealership in the early 90's. I cannot remember the body type it was either the corsica or the cavalier. Any way we repainted thousands of tops and hoods because of a adhesion problem from GM. You could blow the clear off with your air gun.

im pretty sure it was the corsica i had one and the paint just peeled off and all you could see was the nice gray primer. you could even peel it off by hand!

jpitt1987
Oct 13th, 2008, 05:32 AM
Hey guys,

Haven't been on in a few weeks due to school overload, but I sure have missed being on MOL.

I do want to comment on the heat issue causing CC failure. You know, that makes complete sense and I think it explains what happened with my hood. Is there anything that can be done to prevent that again? Like any sort of lining on the bottom of the hood that can be applied that will keep it from getting that hot. I have a CF (as some of you have seen the pictures) and there is no sort of "heat guard" on the bottom side. Any thoughts?

Mike, sorry if this is out of place, feel free to move it if need be.

:D

RacerX88
Oct 13th, 2008, 08:23 AM
im pretty sure it was the corsica i had one and the paint just peeled off and all you could see was the nice gray primer. you could even peel it off by hand!

If it was the Cavi I would be in big trouble with my '97 right now! Must have been the Corsica.

Mike Phillips
Oct 13th, 2008, 08:24 AM
Is there anything that can be done to prevent that again? Like any sort of lining on the bottom of the hood that can be applied that will keep it from getting that hot.

I have a CF (as some of you have seen the pictures) and there is no sort of "heat guard" on the bottom side. Any thoughts?



There's a number of products on the market for heat control and sound deadening, couldn't hurt to try one of these. Besides heat thought it's also exposure to direct sunlight.

:)

ywurry
Oct 27th, 2008, 03:14 PM
What is the exact cause of clearcoat failure? I've seen cars that were extremely neglected that did not get CC failure, and some that were mildly neglected that did.

It looks to me like CC failure happens beucase the paint dries out, I assume the polishing oils in meguiars products would prevent this, given they are sealed in with a wax. the paint is like first lot of photo's has not got to white stage

ywurry
Oct 27th, 2008, 03:16 PM
the car has stood in the sun for a long time as it has been parked all day while at work

Mike Phillips
Oct 27th, 2008, 03:38 PM
the paint is like first lot of photo's has not got to white stage


the car has stood in the sun for a long time as it has been parked all day while at work

If your paint is looking like any of the pictures in the first page of this thread then there is no way to fix it. You can either have the car or the affected area re-painted or live with it.

Sad but true.

:)

Eddie6th
May 30th, 2009, 03:44 AM
Hi,I mentioned this before in another thread.I see this happen more to red colored cars,than any other color. Also,I know someone that had a 15year old car in red(non mett.),that was deterioating as above and he looked after his car with regular polishing and waxing.(My car is the same age and has no deterioation). It got to the point that he sold it as it was always needing resprays.

umermariner
Aug 2nd, 2009, 04:34 PM
Hello guys,

Really nice forum. I have some problem with my paint, that I was thinking is caused by oxidation. However; I am pretty sure now that it is clear coat problem now. I will appreciate if you can let me know of your opinion, also if you have some solution OTHER than repainting off course :).

Guys, for some reasom I do not even have the option to upload pictures. Please check the link below.

http:// forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10395113#post10395113

Thanks.

Mark Kleis
Aug 2nd, 2009, 10:17 PM
I edited the link since we can not allow clickable links by new members until they reach 30 posts.

I will say, though, that it definitely looked like clear coat failure to me.

Sorry :/

umermariner
Aug 3rd, 2009, 05:59 AM
I edited the link since we can not allow clickable links by new members until they reach 30 posts.

I will say, though, that it definitely looked like clear coat failure to me.

Sorry :/
Thanks man.... :(... nothing can be done.. hmmmmmmmm :(

Maserati Mario
Aug 3rd, 2009, 08:14 PM
Does this count?
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll43/MaseratiMario/5-9-9048.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll43/MaseratiMario/5-9-9047.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll43/MaseratiMario/f288495e.jpg

rusty bumper
Aug 3rd, 2009, 09:35 PM
Has anyone ever seen basecoat failure with the clearcoat intact? Well I think I've run into it.

We purchased an older 1994 Dodge Caravan that is in excellent condition mechanically, and with low miles too, but the red paint is rather suspect.

I have spent some quality time trying to bring out the luster, and restore some life to the finish, but I believe the van is heading for a repaint. Also, there are four spots on the hood that appear to be clearcoat failure, as the basecoat has begun to fade.

Usually, when a car's paint has clearcoat failure the basecoat is exposed, and any detailing pads will be stained with the base color...but not this time. The clear is intact, from what I can tell, but the basecoat is fading underneath in these four spots. :scratchhead1 I guess the previous owner just didn't use the right products to keep the paint's oils replenished?

Just though I would throw this out to you.

JuddGA
Aug 30th, 2009, 08:16 AM
Out of curiosity, can oxidization occur on a clearcoated car? I've only seen examples of it on what looks like single stage paint, so really haven't a clue if it can happen on a clearcoated car...

Last time I polished my clear coated truck, I am pretty sure I was removing oxidation

tlrmax
Sep 3rd, 2009, 03:25 PM
I tried using ultimate compund and wax afterwards. also did cly bar b4 the utc and it didnt make a difference. Do I have clearcoat failure? Its on the hood and roof and rear wing.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j109/tlrmax/maximahood.jpg

Mark Kleis
Sep 4th, 2009, 02:20 AM
I tried using ultimate compund and wax afterwards. also did cly bar b4 the utc and it didnt make a difference. Do I have clearcoat failure? Its on the hood and roof and rear wing.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j109/tlrmax/maximahood.jpg

Looks like it to me (from that picture), but more pictures would help.

gainesvilledetailing
Nov 11th, 2009, 06:48 PM
those cracks at the bottom of the first page I have seen on multiple Nissan Xterra's and the dealership told me it was from bird droppings, I thought it was a paint failure, good thing that I found this forum

rusty bumper
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Has anyone ever seen basecoat failure with the clearcoat intact? Well I think I've run into it.

We purchased an older 1994 Dodge Caravan that is in excellent condition mechanically, and with low miles too, but the red paint is rather suspect.

I have spent some quality time trying to bring out the luster, and restore some life to the finish, but I believe the van is heading for a repaint. Also, there are four spots on the hood that appear to be clearcoat failure, as the basecoat has begun to fade.

Usually, when a car's paint has clearcoat failure the basecoat is exposed, and any detailing pads will be stained with the base color...but not this time. The clear is intact, from what I can tell, but the basecoat is fading underneath in these four spots. :scratchhead1 I guess the previous owner just didn't use the right products to keep the paint's oils replenished?

Just though I would throw this out to you.

After much buffing, the clear is still intact, but the basecoat has faded in these four areas.

I have always believed that Meguiar's trade secret oils will penetrate the clearcoat and nourish the basecoat. Some rebuffed me on this a while back, but now I feel I have the proof to back up my claims.

Just my two cents worth for the day.

Shizane2002
Jun 5th, 2010, 07:17 AM
Brilliant thread. I havent had any clear coat problems yet. Im on 13 year old original Indy Red paint from Chrysler. Im giving Meguiars all the respect its due for keeping my paint alive and thriving.

rusty bumper
Jun 6th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Brilliant thread. I havent had any clear coat problems yet. Im on 13 year old original Indy Red paint from Chrysler. Im giving Meguiars all the respect its due for keeping my paint alive and thriving.

Absolutely.

I have a '92 Dodge, and the paint still shines like new money with no peeling at all.

93'240sx
Jul 4th, 2010, 12:16 PM
my cars clear coat has started failing pretty quickly over the past 3 years or so, i try to keep on top of it and keep it cleaned, but its but failing all over the top of my car, dang texas sun! i need to get it re-sprayed

Spidey
Sep 21st, 2010, 06:41 AM
those cracks at the bottom of the first page I have seen on multiple Nissan Xterra's and the dealership told me it was from bird droppings, I thought it was a paint failure, good thing that I found this forum

it is failure.. it is a paint defect. it is NOT bird ****.. bird **** is something different. I have those checkmarks all over my hood on my 07 Honda and apparently I am not the only one.. check this out if you don't believe me..

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mechanical-problems-technical-chat/45162-cracks-hood-pics.html

I even called honda and brought it to the dealership and have their body guy look at it.. he said it is checkering aka crows feet. it is NOt due to bird droppings...with bird droppings you will be able to see some oxidation and discolouration around the area of the affected paint as well.. like stains..

taylar
Sep 23rd, 2010, 08:39 AM
This is really a fantastic forum.
Thanks
===========taylar

Bill Davidson
Sep 23rd, 2010, 09:13 AM
it is failure.. it is a paint defect. it is NOT bird ****.. bird **** is something different. I have those checkmarks all over my hood on my 07 Honda and apparently I am not the only one.. check this out if you don't believe me..

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mechanical-problems-technical-chat/45162-cracks-hood-pics.html

I even called honda and brought it to the dealership and have their body guy look at it.. he said it is checkering aka crows feet. it is NOt due to bird droppings...with bird droppings you will be able to see some oxidation and discolouration around the area of the affected paint as well.. like stains..

So is this issue isolated to the Honda hoods due to heat or is the issue throughout the car? I didn't see the answer in that thread.

Explicit Details
Sep 23rd, 2010, 02:25 PM
Here's a clearcoat failure nightmare I can almost bet nobody has seen before. This is a 2 month old paint job that I was "hired" to wet sand and buff for a friend. What you see in my hand in the picture is the actual clearcoat that was on the door, which peeled off like a bad sunburn. The paint wet sanded and buffed like normal, but when I peeled off a piece of blue painter's tape that I had protecting an area on the door, it peeled the clear off with it and it just kept going. The whole entire truck did this, not just the door, I was just flabbergasted, I've never seen anything like that before. It was determined that the cause was a paint additive the owner added to the paint that he shouldn't have. Definitely not your normal clearcoat failure, but I thought you all might find it interesting :).

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/836/clearfail.jpg

davidwillson
Oct 18th, 2010, 01:42 PM
Had some fun with my new macro lense.



You can see the tiny cracks in the clear. This is basically a different form of clearcoat failure.

...pollen is sticking to everything, too...
Add me to the group that never knew about high engine temps adding to hood clear coat failure. Very interesting.

Spidey
Oct 19th, 2010, 08:03 AM
So is this issue isolated to the Honda hoods due to heat or is the issue throughout the car? I didn't see the answer in that thread.

it is isolated(from what i know) to the hood and fenders.. basically the metal parts that are most exposed to the sun? i am not sure if it is due to the engine or not, if it were, the fenders shouldnt be affected... it could be the painting process for theose 2 parts during assembly that cause those areas... there are areas such as the roof and trunk that people have complained abotu the clear coat cracking and flaking off.. esp for the fiji blue colour on the civic.. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/detailing/226585-paint-fading.html

my roof and trunk lid shows signs of clear coat cracking while my hood shows crows feet..... in the midst of getting honda to see if they will cover it under goodwill warranty

AWD_Junkie
Nov 13th, 2010, 01:04 PM
early to mid 90's GM vehicles, especially white pick ups are notorious for paint failure, Hondas also. Both I know from experience. Honda i'm not sure why but I know GM used some really bad paint in the 90's.

Michael Stoops
Nov 16th, 2010, 08:01 AM
early to mid 90's GM vehicles, especially white pick ups are notorious for paint failure, Hondas also. Both I know from experience. Honda i'm not sure why but I know GM used some really bad paint in the 90's.

Early to mid '90s GM and Ford vehicles had issues with not just clear coat failure but a lack of bond between the color coat and primer. The color coat would literally flake off the primer (and obviously take the clear along with it!) but that is a completely different dynamic than the sort of clear coat failure shown in the pictures of this thread. While clear coat failure can be caused by problems arising in the manufacturing process, it can also be caused by heavy UV exposure, damaging the clear in some way (buffing almost completely through, scratching through it, etc) or just flat out neglect. But the flaking color coat exhibited by those '90s GM and Ford vehicles was all down to manufacturing issues.

On the GM cars if it happened early enough you could make a warranty claim and get the car repainted. If it didn't show up until much later, you were pretty much out of luck - which is exactly what happened on my wife's '92 Camaro RS. Our next door neighbor had a white '94 Ford Explorer with the exact same issue. We both had the cars repainted at the same body shop and the owner said he sees this all the time with those cars.

RJ Thoms
Feb 9th, 2011, 08:55 PM
I've got a stupid question sort of relating to this topic.

If you have had clearcote failure and the clear is completely gone but the base coat is still fine (just oxidized), can you buff and polish and protect the basecoat for a better finish ?

Michael Stoops
Feb 10th, 2011, 07:53 AM
I've got a stupid question sort of relating to this topic.

If you have had clearcote failure and the clear is completely gone but the base coat is still fine (just oxidized), can you buff and polish and protect the basecoat for a better finish ?

Yes and no.

If you do this you may see a nice bump in gloss on the color coat, but it won't last long at all. The color coat in a base/clear system is not designed to be glossy - all of the gloss is in the clear. So trying to maintain even a moderate level of gloss is going to be an exercise in frustration.

rusty bumper
Feb 23rd, 2011, 06:39 PM
Yes and no.

If you do this you may see a nice bump in gloss on the color coat, but it won't last long at all. The color coat in a base/clear system is not designed to be glossy - all of the gloss is in the clear. So trying to maintain even a moderate level of gloss is going to be an exercise in frustration.
Not to mention the base coat is very soft, too.

Stephan Nijinsky
Mar 1st, 2011, 05:52 PM
so how can i best prevent cc failure my dark blue Volvo is out side near the beach 24 hours a day ?

Michael Stoops
Mar 2nd, 2011, 08:06 AM
Wash it regularly, and wax it regularly with a good synthetic product like NXT or Ultimate Wax. That is really about the best you can do. Keep in mind, though, that if there was some sort of an issue with the paint at the factory (rare, but it has been known to happen) the clear could be destined for failure no matter what you do. That isn't said to scare you or anyone, it's just something that can happen in rare cases.

Remember, the clear coat has a good amount of UV screeners in it to protect the paint finish, and any wax or sealant you apply is a sacrificial barrier that breaks down over time. That's why keeping a good coat of wax/sealant on is important - once or twice a year is not sufficient. Even so, waxing regularly is still not a guarantee against clear coat failure.

Murr1525
Mar 2nd, 2011, 08:09 AM
Perhaps a polishing step could be more helpful as well in that situation.

Jossy92
Mar 2nd, 2011, 08:53 AM
Murr, Here is a stupid follow-up question: :)

I have a similar problem, so, since I also have a "soft" color coat, I will use M7 (no abrasives) as the polish? Or, use the minimum abrasive to get the desired gloss?
Then the synthetic.

Had to ask, rather than gamble. [Still learning what I don't know.]

Albert87
Mar 26th, 2011, 12:26 AM
And for this people i have given my VW Mk3 the Sound Dampening/isolation liner under the hood from the diesel line!

Park it so it will be out of the sun most of the day!
never drive insane that will increase engine temps!

And lots of Nxt 2.0 wax with on top afther 24hours Gold glass Plus

but admin/anyone!
is sometimes Clearcoat failure caused due to bad painting? let say a repaint of a year of 5 ago? in combination of even worse maintenance!

Greetings Albert
from holland!

Albert87
Mar 26th, 2011, 12:45 AM
Yes and no.

If you do this you may see a nice bump in gloss on the color coat, but it won't last long at all. The color coat in a base/clear system is not designed to be glossy - all of the gloss is in the clear. So trying to maintain even a moderate level of gloss is going to be an exercise in frustration.

Ehhh.. can i add something to that!
mine 95 VW mk3 has LP3G flashred SSpaint! my passenger door has lost it CC on the top part at the window!(was resprayed in 02)
i polished it with Ultimate compound and its still glossy for 1 year now!
but i do wax my car every month nxt 2.0 2nd layer is goldclass plus(for the fun)
use Ultimate wash n wax and when dry i go over it with Ultimate quickdetailer!

Many people on the meetings don't even see that the cc is gone there!
just my words on that! but i do agree that on larger surfaces it a pain the $ss to keep it glossy !

just some words on this matter ;)

waterxyro
Apr 9th, 2011, 10:43 PM
Can anyone tell me whether this is a case of oxidation or clear coat failure?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5605445260_d18994418f_m.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5605445258_babaca36d3_m.jpg

If the images weren't uploaded properly, see the direct links below:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5605445260_d18994418f_m.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5605445258_babaca36d3_m.jpg

More detail: there are a lot of tiny white circles in clusters, very rough to the touch and can't be chipped off when I use my fingers. Please let me know whether this is a case of oxidation or clear coat failure.

Thanks in advance.

slowray
Apr 18th, 2011, 08:22 AM
I have an Oldsmobile Aurora 1999 which had cracking in the clear coat. Wet sanded as much as I could and then buffed using McGuires products, followed by fine polishing and wax. Its been 4 years now and the car shows no signs of re-cracking and the finish is great.

kentwp
Nov 29th, 2011, 02:38 PM
Hello,

Can someone here please help me identify if my picture shows a clearcoat failure (the whitish stain) on Deep Black paint work with pearl effect?

A few days ago, I discovered a stone chip on my bonnet. Read about using touch up paint and wet sanding ending with polishing and decided to try out the procedure.

After the touch up blob drying for 5-6 hours on a warm day, I used a 2000 grit paper based sandpaper soaked in soapy water for 20 mins and made multiple passes at about an inch around the blob.

After the blob seemed to be even with the rest of the surface, I polished the area using ScratchX, and the ended with Polish. Once I completed it, I realized that at angles with artificial lighting, there seems to be a crater of sorts but looked glossy.

If you look at the picture, and ignore the 3 stripes (I added more touch up paint as I realized the paint was not enough), I noticed the whitish stain that could not be removed with further polishing. Just to add, there seems to be still a clear coat as at angles I could still see that the white stain is still as glossy as as the surrounding paint.

Anyone thinks that it should be headed towards a re-spray?

Sorry, I can't seem to insert a picture from the iPhone app. Will get to a PC and upload.

Michael Stoops
Nov 29th, 2011, 03:05 PM
We'll wait for the pictures, of course, but it sure sounds as though you may have sanded through the clear coat or very close to doing so. If you just used your fingertips with that sandpaper, even 2000 grit, and worked such a small area then it's actually very easy to do this. Did you sand with just your bare fingers or did you have some sort of backer for the paper, even if just a small block of wood, plastic, etc?

kentwp
Nov 29th, 2011, 04:43 PM
We'll wait for the pictures, of course, but it sure sounds as though you may have sanded through the clear coat or very close to doing so. If you just used your fingertips with that sandpaper, even 2000 grit, and worked such a small area then it's actually very easy to do this. Did you sand with just your bare fingers or did you have some sort of backer for the paper, even if just a small block of wood, plastic, etc?

Hi Michael,

You were right about me using my fingertips. I checked again this morning and confirmed that the whitish spot is indeed still glossy.

Here is a picture of it.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/1935/medium/photo_2_.JPG

TheDetailBoss
Jan 25th, 2012, 06:48 PM
Great post Mike:)! Living in Arizona where the sun is relentless, I see this all day long. We receive calls and go out to give estimates and simply tell our clients there is nothing we can do for them once its to that stage of deterioration. Luckily one of our clients brought to us his Mercedes Benz that was showing signs of oxidation and we really weren't sure what we could do with it. So we gave it a go. The clearcoat wasn't flaking and was in-tact to the touch, which was definitely a good sign. We did a two step correction and while the oxidation didn't come out 100% (we think it almost would have had he wanted a more aggressive package) it looks night and day. here's a video of it below. Great post! very interesting and informative on the different stages of paint/clearcoat failure. I just thought I'd share this as an example that it CAN be corrected before its too late!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KN9ji05MF4&list=UU3fI1Yny4KfiVO62FyrpiGA&index=19&feature=plcp

http://www.lakehavasudetailing.com/picture/mercedes420selhoodbeforeafter.png?pictureId=11180740

http://www.lakehavasudetailing.com/picture/mercedes420selhoodbeforeafter2.png?pictureId=11180747

http://www.lakehavasudetailing.com/picture/mercedes420selroofbeforeafter.png?pictureId=11180751

http://www.lakehavasudetailing.com/picture/mercedes420seltrunkbeforeafter2.png?pictureId=11180763

Half/Half Comparison on the hood:
http://www.lakehavasudetailing.com/picture/mercedes420seltrunkcorrection8.png?pictureId=11181087

zhucehao
May 25th, 2012, 05:46 AM
Add me to the group that never knew about high engine temps adding to hood clear coat failure. Very interesting.

PKR
May 25th, 2012, 12:06 PM
While I'm not entirely new to detailing, I don't own a machine and I've never worked on a car more than 5-10 years old. Now I'm faced with some sort of problem on the paint of a 1990 BMW 325i. Color is Sterling Silver, which I assume has a clear coat. The attached photo shows a small area of what look like very fine scratches; most of the car loos about the same. The scratches pass the fingernail test but any efforts I've made to hand polish them yields no joy whatsoever. I've asked others with '80s-era BMWs and their best guess is that the clear float is beginning to go. What say you .... ?
http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb440/GSP51/PKRsE30paint.jpg

Murr1525
May 25th, 2012, 12:56 PM
Hmm.. doesnt usually fail in long straight lines.

But it does look abused and maybe 'dry'... which certainly will increase the chance of failing.

PKR
May 25th, 2012, 03:36 PM
"Abused"? Definitely, though the color itself is surprisingly good.
Just for fun, if we were to assume that it was actually NOT clear coat failure, then what corrections would be worth trying?

Murr1525
May 25th, 2012, 07:40 PM
What efforts did you make so far? May be worth its own thread if you want to get into more detail on the car.

Mark5280
Apr 22nd, 2014, 04:02 PM
I love this thread. It's so sad that car manufacturers used such crappy products and for the most part will not stand behind their product. I see so many cars on the road with this problem and some of them seem to be only a few years old.

I recently had the same issue with my older Eagle Summit where the clear coat had failed pretty badly on the roof and hood. It looked horrible with the clear coat layer raised up and white splotches all over the top of my car. The car still runs great and the AWD is super in the snow so I don't want to junk it just because of a bad paint job. I suspect that taking the car thru an automatic car wash contributed to this problem. I only started the automatic car washes last year, and the paint was great before that. I'm not sure if that contributed to the failure since the sun is pretty hot here in Denver, but the car has always garaged.

A few pictures below of my problem, and go here to see more: http://s217.photobucket.com/user/locutus5280/library/Eagle%20Summit%20Clear%20Coat%20Damage%20and%20my%20Repair

http://s217.photobucket.com/user/locutus5280/media/Eagle%20Summit%20Clear%20Coat%20Damage%20and%20my%20Repair/IMG_4351_zps7e77b865.jpg.html
http://s217.photobucket.com/user/locutus5280/media/Eagle%20Summit%20Clear%20Coat%20Damage%20and%20my%20Repair/IMG_4343_zps7fff7733.jpg.html

A few months ago I applied a product that I came across that did a pretty good job of hiding the ugly white splotches where the clear coat failed. It worked great on my older burgundy car and I've also applied it to several black cars as a test. It's been 2 months on my car and the damage is still hidden. It's certainly not a new paint job, but I can't afford that right now so this process was very acceptable to me, inexpensive and quick. I'm amazed at the posts that say "just get a new paint job" to solve this problem, but I can barely pay my health insurance now after the newest hefty increases. Even if I have to apply this product a few times a year, I'm happy to do it to hide those horrible splotches. After applying this product to the hood and roof, those areas were not as glossy as the rest of the car, so I applied two coats of Carnauba wax and that really brought out the shine. It looks pretty good now for a car from 1995.

There are a few YouTube videos of this product being used. Go to Youtube and search for "Eagle Summit Clear Coat" for a longer video that I made. Hope this helps someone.

uber-shine
Nov 4th, 2014, 06:38 PM
That looks very good Mark5280. What I might have suggested before applying the clear-coat wipe, (or to anyone who is thinking of attempting this process) is to use the Meg compounds to polish and exfoliate some of the old existing clear, which will help to brighten the overall panel and blend away the voids that appear where the clear-coat is gone completely. This might eliminate some of the "bald" spots. In the Cutlass project shown below, a thorough 3000 D/A and multi-stage saved it's severely oxidized upper panels (trunk, roof, hood) and saved it's 30 year old paintwork.https://www.flickr.com/photos/66449279@N06/15713765885/https://www.flickr.com/photos/66449279@N06/15093818044/

Steve Conn
Nov 12th, 2014, 07:47 PM
Underhood temps, especially right after shutdown can exceed 180 F. I used a tell-tale remote thermometer to check (and document this) different areas of the engine compartment several years ago. I have several prop rods of about 12 inches to use to prop my hood open (a '96 and '03 Corvette and an '03 Tahoe) when I stop in the summer if the engine has come fully up to temperature. This allows the superheated air to vent out and not create hotspots on the underside of the hood. Expansion and contraction of a steel hood subjected to temp. extremes will obviously break the surface of the paint over time and speed deterioration. It only takes a second to pop the hood open when you stop.

jjrakwichian
Jan 26th, 2015, 02:28 PM
Base on my experiences, if the CLEAR COAT is still on the CLOUDY OR HAZY stage, it is still actually can recovery that by sending with 3000 grit sanding disc along with the black foam interface from Meguiars and follow up with M100 and M205. But must be patient and quite gentle during the restoring porcess.

dricacho
Jun 18th, 2016, 11:51 AM
I need help in determining whether or not this is clear coat damage or oxidation. This is a 2 stage pearl white which makes it even more difficult for me to tell. The rest of the car isn't showing this, only the hood. The roof can also use some protection from this.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/djkwest/IMG_20160617_183850.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/djkwest/IMG_20160617_183832.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/djkwest/media/IMG_20160617_183832.jpg.html)

dricacho
Jul 1st, 2016, 05:55 PM
No one? Too busy to help??

The Guz
Jul 1st, 2016, 09:20 PM
Hard to tell from those photos.

dricacho
Jul 2nd, 2016, 01:50 AM
Circled in red.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/djkwest/Untitled-1.jpg

dricacho
Jul 2nd, 2016, 01:51 AM
Circled it in red.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/djkwest/Untitled-1.jpg

The Guz
Jul 2nd, 2016, 08:46 AM
I saw that area. But it is still hard to say what that area is. Could be oxidation. Could be clear coat failure.

nynewyawk
Jul 11th, 2016, 10:55 AM
Is it possible to tell how much clear coat gets removed during wet sanding/compounding/polishing?

Michael Stoops
Jul 12th, 2016, 08:11 AM
Is it possible to tell how much clear coat gets removed during wet sanding/compounding/polishing?You'll need a paint thickness gauge to tell you this. If you plan on wet sanding it is very important to know how much material you are removing and the best way to do so is with a PTG. There are just too many variables, however, for anyone to make generalized statements about how much clear is removed by sanding, compounding, etc so a PTG becomes a critical tool during that process.

nynewyawk
Jul 12th, 2016, 09:03 AM
Thanks, but I actually worded it wrong. What I meant to ask was how do you know if you went through the clear coat even if i don't have PTG?

Shootist
Apr 26th, 2017, 03:40 PM
I've got a stupid question sort of relating to this topic.

If you have had clearcote failure and the clear is completely gone but the base coat is still fine (just oxidized), can you buff and polish and protect the basecoat for a better finish ?

I did it on my Mom's 2002 Camry in Super White. Someone had done a very poor job repairing the top of the deck lid. I actually think they forgot to shoot any clear! I used Ultimate Polish and then NXT 2.0 Wax. Be very careful around edges and style lines or you'll start seeing gray primer.
I try to keep it coated with NXT on a regular basis since base coats are very porous as opposed to clear.

Keep thinking I'm going to buy a spray can of USC SprayMax 2K clear and shoot it for about $25 but I've never gotten around to it.

Give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose. It's kinda like trying to bring back an oxidized single stage such as the red Benz SL in beginning of this thread.