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huntah2k
Apr 8th, 2008, 07:07 PM
im about to paint my car this weekend.. car is already primed and ready. the paint i bought is Dupont two-stage Deep Navy Blue Pearl w/ metallic..and clear.

i took a piece of sheet metal and primed it to practice ...after i laid 2 coats of paint and 3 coats of clear it came out with some orange peel in it. Ive been looking all over the internet to find out how to remove it. I bought 1500 grit sandpaper and tried to practice before i actually paint my car but i cant seem to remove the sand scratches. I was using turtle wax rubbing compound because the M84 i ordered hasn't came in yet. i used a buffer and i tried it by hand in different areas with different pressure on the sandpaper..

Do i have to sand the base coat smooth before i lay the clear? because i cant tell if the base coat or the clear coat has the orange peel.

Anyone help?

here is a pic of my hopeless efforts
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/0408081726.jpg

Mike Phillips
Apr 8th, 2008, 09:04 PM
To remove orange peel you need to,

1. Wet Sand or Dry Sand the paint flat.

2. Remove your sanding marks using a wool pad with an aggressive compound with rotary buffer.

3. Follow your aggressive compounding step with less aggressive steps, how far you want to go and how high a quality you want to achieve will determine what these step will be.

Sanding and buffing out an entire car is a lot of work.

Have you ever done this before?
Do you own a rotary buffer?
Do you know how to use it?

:)

Derrick
Apr 8th, 2008, 09:12 PM
yea in order to remove sanding scratches you will need a rotary w/ a wool pad and an agressive compound like#84 or #85. doing it by hand or an orbital is just about impossible. im not to familiar with painting cars so i cant help you on that part. wish i could though good luck and i hope it works out for you

huntah2k
Apr 9th, 2008, 01:44 AM
i have a palm 5" buffer that hooks up to the air compressor..it vibrates and spins..i never used it before till now. ive been practicing a lot though because if my car comes out alright my friends are going to pay me to do theres.

i really need to buy a rotary buffer?

yalerd
Apr 9th, 2008, 04:50 AM
With all your respect but I would suggest stepping away from this job/project.
Wet sanding an entire car is a very demanding and serious because if you don't know anything about it things could try bad in seconds.

You can't really learn and have the skills required from one day to another, it takes passion, effort and years of experience.

I wouldn't do it, this is my opinion but yet again, it's your project:)

It doesn't matter what you end up doing good luck with it and I hope everything turns out great!

Mike Phillips
Apr 9th, 2008, 05:43 AM
i really need to buy a rotary buffer?


Yes.

No matter what you may read about being able to remove sanding marks using any kind of orbital buffer, you cannot remove sanding marks quickly or effectively with one of these types of tool, you need to use a rotary buffer.

Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6680)


You'll want to get one and start practicing, you don't want to learn how to use a rotary buffer by starting out sanding down your first car and then removing the sanding marks. You can but that's a pretty steep learning curve without someone to show you some tips and techniques to get you started.

:)

Derrick
Apr 9th, 2008, 05:49 AM
i have a palm 5" buffer that hooks up to the air compressor..it vibrates and spins..i never used it before till now. ive been practicing a lot though because if my car comes out alright my friends are going to pay me to do theres.

i really need to buy a rotary buffer?

Im not to familiar with a palm buffer but im sure you will still need a rotary. buffers like the palm and other da's just dont have the power necessary to remove sanding marks. I will have to agree with yalerd and say you should wait off on this project untill you can get some real practice in. it seems like you are taking on alot with little exeriece. Even if you did get a rotary it takes alot of time and practice with that machine to be able to tackle and entire car with or without sanding marks. there are different pads, compounds, and polishes that you need to learn to use and see the different resluts and practice and practice till you can make sure you know what you are doing so you dont burn through or leave the paint with bad swirl marks. Then you really want to make sure you know what you are doing before touching someone elses car because not ever car is the same. you will run into problems with one car and not another. Ok well whatever you choose to do i hope it works out and im sure we will all be here if you need some more info and help.

BlackSS
Apr 9th, 2008, 05:55 AM
If you have never used a rotary buffer I recomend gettin one with a maximum speed of 3000 rpm, and practice on a junk car before using on your car. It would also help if your buffer had pressure sensitive trigger. Have worked in a body shop for 7+ yrs, so if have any other questions feel free to ask.

huntah2k
Apr 9th, 2008, 08:00 PM
alright well thanks alot guys. tomorrow im going to go buy a rotary buffer and a lot of pads and just practice as much as i can. my car has needed a paint job for a long time. I will post pics of what im doing and on friday i will have pics of the painting process.

Wolf-Strong
Apr 9th, 2008, 08:23 PM
I don't mean to sound negative, rather only helpful when I say that removing orange peal on a whole car is a process that doesn't take just one day, rather often times a couple of days and 15...20+ hours of labor? I personally haven't done it because I know just how much work it requires, though I am sure someone with that kind of experience can chime in on that part.

You may also want to look into paint thickness. Factory paint jobs aren't the safest thing to sand down because they aren't THAT thick by comparison. Usually when you want a car with zero orange peal, it happens when you go to get the car painted, and you ask them to throw on a few extra layers of clear so that you have something to work with. The clear coat is what protects the pigment coat and the look of the car, not the wax. Sanding it down too far compromises this so much so that often you will see premature clear coat failure.

Now with that aside, I did notice that you said you are looking for a paint job, so make sure you shop around for a quality painter who will prep the surface accordingly and throw on those extra layers of clear for you to work down, but only if you plan to do so. If you plan on painting it yourself, just be sure to properly prep the surface as this is where a quality paint job is made or broken at.

So enough with the somewhat negative based comments, but I just want to make sure you are prepared for what you are getting yourself into. With everything said and done, a car with zero orange peal and a nicely polished and waxed paint job is an absolutely stunning thing to witness, and especially to own!

huntah2k
Apr 10th, 2008, 07:16 AM
im painting the car myself. I have SOME experience in painting cars. I had my old car painted at maaco <-- they did a very bad job..so i decided to start practicing my self i started researching and i bought a gun set. i just now am starting to remove the sanding scratches and it looks nice just in the one stop im doing by hand. Im going out and buying a rotary buffer sometime today.

here are some pics

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/downsized_0410081116a.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/0410081116.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/0410081115.jpg

Mike Phillips
Apr 10th, 2008, 07:25 AM
Cool to see you willing to invest the time and energy to learn how to do things yourself including the sanding and buffing process.

Besides the rotary buffer, can you see if you can order some,

M105 Ultra Cut Compound
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-paint-cleaners-compounds/Ultra-Cut-Compound

M83 for a rotary buffer follow-up polish
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-cleaner-polishs/Body-Shop-Professional-Dual-Action-Cleaner-Polish

M82 or M09 for a DA follow up polish
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-cleaner-polishs/Body-Shop-Professional-Swirl-Free-Polish
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-cleaner-polishs/Swirl-Remover

Wool Cutting Pad
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-pad/Double-Sided-Wool-Cutting-Pad
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-pad/Cut-N-Shine-Wool-Pad

2-4 Polishing Pads, the W-8000 and W-8006 would be optimum (More is always better than less)
http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-pad/Soft-Buff-Foam-Polishing-Pads


We have a sand and buff job coming up, a couple of them actually that we are planning on investing the time to document the entire process using the above plus the Mirka Abralon Wet Sanding System.

Waiting for a phone call to find out when we get to start, might be this Saturday, might not though, waiting for the car to get it's final clear coat sprayed.

Don't wait for the write up as you need to get on this as fast as you can, but we'll help see you through to success.

:)

dvtldav
Apr 10th, 2008, 07:42 AM
Just a thought since you are doing it yourself, a couple of things to try in painting is to drop the air pressure little bit on your gun, this will give you a little smoother surface to start with. Also try adding a little thinner to your paint as this will let it flow a little more before it dries. Experiment some with these to see if they help.

Dave

huntah2k
Apr 10th, 2008, 06:45 PM
i layed down the base coat today. here are some pics. Theres orange peel. But i have a great pic of a spot i removed the orange peel. A lot of work.

Can i wet sand the car and buff then lay the clear coat after?

Red line shows where i sanded and what it looked like before.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/0410081818.jpghttp://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/0410081920.jpghttp://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g114/huntah2k/0410081257.jpg

the other pc
Apr 11th, 2008, 09:31 AM
...Can i wet sand the car and buff then lay the clear coat after?...It depends on the paint system. Many base coats can’t be sanded. Some can. Read the instruction sheets for the specific product you’re using. A basecoat that can’t be sanded usually won’t need it anyway. They formulate them that way.

Typically, if you can sand the basecoat, you’d start with a course grit to remove the peel and progress to a fine grit before topcoating. Buffing is not necessary (or desirable).


PC.

kkarasch
Oct 17th, 2016, 01:23 PM
This is not true. I do it all the time. Rupes Mark II and Microfiber cutting pad with FG400 all day long.


Yes.

No matter what you may read about being able to remove sanding marks using any kind of orbital buffer, you cannot remove sanding marks quickly or effectively with one of these types of tool, you need to use a rotary buffer.

Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6680)


You'll want to get one and start practicing, you don't want to learn how to use a rotary buffer by starting out sanding down your first car and then removing the sanding marks. You can but that's a pretty steep learning curve without someone to show you some tips and techniques to get you started.

:)

the other pc
Oct 18th, 2016, 08:54 AM
Dude, look at the dates on this thread.

Yes, the products you're using work, now.

They didn't even exist back then.

Nick Winn
Oct 18th, 2016, 01:25 PM
From:

(http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?65270)Pictures from October 15th, 2016 Wet Sanding & Rotary Polishing Class (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?65270)

Earlier we stated that sanding mark removal was traditionally always been done with a rotary polisher, a wool pad and a compound." Well, things have changed a bit in the past few years with the introduction of high torque DA polishers as well as advances in pad technology (think microfiber discs) and compound technology. So much so, in fact, that we can now use a DA polisher like the MT300 to remove sanding marks in many cases. It's a good idea to refine your sanding marks as much as you can before using a DA to buff them out, but generally speaking if you finish down with 3000 grit finishing discs on a DA sander you should be able to buff them out pretty easily with a DA. A good DA. And microfiber discs. And something like M100, M105 or M101. Here the MT300/DMC5/M105 are making short work of 3000 grit hand sanding marks. - Michael Stoops

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/2513/2016_10_15_100.JPG