Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments

[Mike Phillips]

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2garagelogo1.jpg


Advanced Class #2 - Pictures & Comments
Meguiar's Car Care 201
Saturday May 17th, 2008


This is our second Advanced Class coordinated through our forum and building on the foundation laid by our Car Care 101 Classes since 2002

These classes are limited to approximately 12 people to keep a high Instructor to Student ratio. There are 2 more Advanced Classes scheduled for this year, anyone interested can reply to the sign-up threads for these classes when they are posted and then students are picked using an electronic lottery system.

Here's the schedule for the rest of the year.

2008 Advanced Class Schedule (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21729)

Ready to start...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass001.jpg

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[Mike Phillips]

Classroom time... head knowledge first, then hands-on experience...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass004.jpg


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[Justin Murphy]

Can't to see more. Love the choice of products there. That's really all one needs!

[Mark McGuire]

I only count 9 people, 3 didn't show up? :wall2

[willhawk]

Two questions:
1. Where did you get that black flashlight(swirl light)?
2. Was is just too hot in Irvine to work on the car?

[Derrick]

looks very well set up, i hope on day i can attend some classes. I would like to someday be apart of the megs community but its a little more difficult being way over here in TX

[southpactire]

Thanks to Meguiars for hosting events like this. Both of the Mike's (Pennington and Phillips) did a great job with the class. Information was presented in a thorough, comprehensive manner that reached both beginners and seasoned professionals. I encourage anyone who wants to elevate their skills, gain confidence and raise their game a notch to attend.

[Jokeman]

Two questions:
1. Where did you get that black flashlight(swirl light)?
2. Was is just too hot in Irvine to work on the car?

Snap-On/Blue-Point
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=73511&group_ID=2960&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

[Piku]

Very good class indeed! Thank you Meguiar's and Mike & Mike. :)

[Slick]

Many thanks to Meguiar's... and M&M (Mike & Mike).

The pointers on technique were a great help... & were exactly what I was looking for. Was amazed at how quickly the car buffed out after wet-sanding. The day also made me realize that I need to have more products on-hand to handle various paint (and weather) conditions.

I'm less afraid of the wool pad now. I have one, but think I'll stick with foam for the time being.

It DOES make we want to go out & buy a beater to practice on... was just the excuse I need!

Thanks again!

Randy

[Maserati Mario]

Had an AWESOME TIME!! Love you guys! My toolbox of knowledge is getting full thanks to you guys!

[Maserati Mario]

My thoughts exactly!


Thanks to Meguiars for hosting events like this. Both of the Mike's (Pennington and Phillips) did a great job with the class. Information was presented in a thorough, comprehensive manner that reached both beginners and seasoned professionals. I encourage anyone who wants to elevate their skills, gain confidence and raise their game a notch to attend.

[Maserati Mario]

Two questions:
1. Where did you get that black flashlight(swirl light)?
2. Was is just too hot in Irvine to work on the car?

I was hot. Some of the cars, in the sun were as hot as 160 deg. The car we worked on was around 90 deg. I thought us how to handle the products in and enviroment that evaporates the product quicker. But everything came out nice!

[Nick Chapman]

looks very well set up, i hope on day i can attend some classes. I would like to someday be apart of the megs community but its a little more difficult being way over here in TX

You're right around the corner from me :wavey

If you're interested in going to one of the classes, let me know. Maybe we can work something out and I can get you out there.

<----works for an airline ;)

Nick

[cv_soccer]

... As Mike often writes in this forum, if you like the way it goes on and off and if the results look good to you then that's all that matters.

I don't know if hard paint is better than soft or vise-versa. The hard paint has one advantage that it won't swirl or scratch as easy as soft paint, but if you want to correct it (polish) it will be hard to do so. While correcting soft paint is much easier. Did Mike answer your questions regarding the hard top coat on the VW's, and what the appropriate products may be for getting rid of swirl? Scottwax3

[Piku]

Did Mike answer your questions regarding the hard top coat on the VW's, and what the appropriate products may be for getting rid of swirl? Scottwax3

Well, Mike tried to find swirls on my car with the swirl finder light but could not see any. So the "experiment" could not be performed. :D
My car does have some light swirls here and there, but they can only be seen at certain angles and at certain lights. They are easier to see when the sun is setting and you look at the finish in the opposite direction of the sun.
Mike, I forgot to tell you that about one month ago, I used #7 and put two coats of NXT 2.0 on my car so that could have filled some of the swirls.
Anyway, sorry to disappoint those who were waiting for the results. Someone needs to take a swirled up MKV VW to Mike so he can test it. Scottwax2

[Mike Phillips]

I was hot. Some of the cars, in the sun were as hot as 160 deg.

The car we worked on was around 90 deg.


It was a beautiful sunny day at Meguiar's Garage! Check out the temperature differences for the different colors of paint sitting in full sun, especially the difference between the temperature on a white car as compared to a black car.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp001.jpg


White car - 110 degrees
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp002.jpg


Silver Metallic - 129 degrees
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp003.jpg


Green Metallic - 165 degrees
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp004.jpg



Silver Metallic - 154 degrees
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp005.jpg



Black - 168 degrees
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp006.jpg



Our demo car was parked inside Meguiar's Garage since early morning...
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass006.jpg



Even out of the sun on a warm day the surface temperature can still be warm.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClasstemp007.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Mike demonstrates how to use a Paint Thickness Gage and relates it to the sanding and buffing process.

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Next up it's time to learn proper hand sanding techniques
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Mike wraps some Nikken #2000 Finishing Paper around an E-7200 Backing Pad
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Mike sprays a water/soap solution to the working face of the paper.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass017.jpg


Then on to the area to be sanded...
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass018.jpg


Then demonstrates the correct way to move the paper over the surface.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass019.jpg


As our member's focus on the sanding action taking place...
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The milky whitish looking color is actually particles of clear paint sanded off the surface.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass022.jpg


Then Mike wipes the excess water and paint residue off the surface.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass023.jpg



Here's the best shot we captured showing the level of orange peel, you can see this by
looking at the florescent lights and the rippled looking texture which is what orange peel is on paint.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass024.jpg


The after shots will show a more distinctive reflection of the overhead light.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass024a.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

After hand-sanding, it's time to learn how to use the rotary buffer with a wool cutting pad and a cutting compound to remove the sanding marks and restore a smooth, glossy finish.


In our Advanced class we show how to use our new M105 Ultra Cut Compound (http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-paint-cleaners-compounds/Ultra-Cut-Compound) with our W5000 Double Sided Wool Cutting pad (http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-pad/Double-Sided-Wool-Cutting-Pad). In order to use the W5000 Wool Cutting pads you need an adapter that attaches the pad to the buffer.

The adapter has much shorter threads so after the pad is screwed on there are no excess threads sticking out that could cause a potential problem if they came into contact with paint.

These adapters can be found at most PBE stores, our W5000 does not come with this adapter so you need to obtain one in order to use this pad.


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass025.jpg


Mike says while they look tasty, please don't eat the adapter. :)
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass026.jpg



It works easiest to attach the adapter to the pad and then attach the pad/adapter to the spindle of the rotary buffer.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass027.jpg


Mike pulls some of the wool back so that everyone can see how the adapter is flush with the working side of the built-in backing plate.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass028.jpg



More information on this adapter can be found here

W5000 Dual Sided Wool Pad with Adapter to attach to the Rotary Buffer (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=193585)

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/668/W5000Adaptor001.jpg


Now that the wool pad is properly attached to the rotary buffer it's time to clean the pad and then learn how to use it to remove sanding marks.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass029.jpg


This is a brand new pad so it has some loose fibers that will come off easily when you break it in, to help remove some of these loose fibers and to soften the fibers Mike will clean the pad using the System 2000 Pad Cleaner which will clean the pad in in so doing dampen the fibers with a little moisture.

In this picture Mike shows off by cleaning the pad with his eyes closed, don't try this at home kids. :)
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass030.jpg



After cleaning the pad in the pad washer, Mike then shows how to use a tool called a Spur to clean the pad again. The pad doesn't really need to be cleaned as it has not been used yet but spurring the pad will lift and loosen up the fibers perfectly preparing it for use. We're also teaching our students the proper way to clean the pad and we strongly emphasize the importance of cleaning your pads often whether they're wool or foam.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass031.jpg


Note how Mike runs the pad cleaning spur from the center of the ad while placing some pressure on the handle with his foot while the back of the rotary buffer is resting on the floor.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass032.jpg

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[Justin Murphy]

More!

[Jokeman]

Very cool! I need to fly across the country to attend one of these classes.

[yalerd]

Mike demonstrates how to use a Paint Thickness Gage and relates it to the sanding and buffing process.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass007.jpg

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I have a question regarding the paint thickness gauges, I know what they are for, I know what they read but I would like to know, in what range of the reading it is OK to do a job like wet sanding/car buff? I've been looking for information, searching in google and I can't find this

I remember a thread that Joe aka Superior Shine did "How much paint are you removing" and noticed that a paint correction process, using DA or Rotary, it very little paint you remove (depends on your aggressiveness) and the most removal of clear coat was when wet sanding

So in what reading range is it safe for you to buff or wet sand, do any type of job aggressive enough to remove clear coat.

[Mike Pennington]

in what reading range is it safe for you to buff or wet sand, do any type of job aggressive enough to remove clear coat.

There is not really a range of what is safe and what is not safe. The bottom line is always use the least aggressive method possible to do the job :)

The gauges read the entire film build as you know. These gauges are best used to determine how much you are removing in a process. For example, take a reading before you begin, then take a reading during or after the repair and with simple subtraction, you know how much top coat you have removed.

Before - 6.5 mils
After - 6.2 mils
________________

Total removed .3 mils

This is important to know, because the more top coat you remove, the less protection you have on the overall coating.

All the car Mfg's we have worked with (many) don't recommend more than .5 mils removed on a factory finish. Beyond that, you don't leave much clear for UV protection. On a refinish job, there are questions to ask...How much clear was sprayed on etc...keep in mind, most body shops do not spray extra clear for sanding and buffing purposes....

Mike

[Justin Murphy]

I recently saw a write up from a "high end" detailer and member here (TH0001) on "A"nother detailing forum. He discovered that the PC aka DA removed more clear than wet sanding or rotary.

Maybe he could chime in here.

[Mike Phillips]

Maybe he could chime in here.


Or start a dedicated thread so as to keep this one focused on the class, not whether or not a PC can remove more paint faster than an RB. (Though Todd did post his thread on this forum too?)

Thank you.

p.s.

More pictures to come... soon as we catch other duties up... ;)

[J. A. Michaels]

Hey, it looks like another great class. You people live on the wrong coast to be teaching classes like that. lol.

[yalerd]

Thanks Mike for the clarification:)

[LacViet]

I have learn lots of new thing in this class. Before attend this class, I were afraid of rotary machine. Thanks to both Mike(s) for showing proper technique of using rotary and wet sand, I'm now comfortable using it without any fear, and even if I make any mistake, I have enough knowledge to correct the issue or at least understand why and will not make the same mistake ever again. Thank you Meguiar's for provide us this type of class. Hope this program will continue in the future and more class for other members to learn.

[Mike Phillips]

Time to turn everyone loose so they can try their hand at,

Hand sanding
Machine sanding
Compounding using a rotary buffer
Polishing using a rotary buffer

Some times it' helps to tape off things like windshield squirters so you don't harm the squirter or load up the water opening with compound by accident.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass038.jpg



If you look to the right of the tape you cans see the straight-line scratches in the paint caused by the car wash used by the rental company to wash the cars.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass039.jpg



3 members try hand sanding the front clip...
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass040.jpg


Feedback from an Instructor helps you to perfect your technique that day. Without the feedback you could possibly spend years using the wrong technique, that's the power of our hands-on classes.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass041.jpg


Measuring thickness
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass042.jpg



Eric aka EKL does some hand sanding
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass043.jpg


Lac Viet does some hand sanding and keeps the surface flushed using a clean water source (Spray bottle of water with a little soap).
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass044.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass045.jpg



Ben aka Piku does some machine sanding using a DA Sander - This is where the idea for DA Polishing originally came from.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass046.jpg


John's removing sanding marks using a wool pad, M105 and a rotary buffer
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass048.jpg



Stacy gets some feedback on how to improve her technique
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass049.jpg



And she's off and buffing!
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass050.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

More pictures of our forum members testing out their newly acquired knowledge...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass051.jpg

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http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass053.jpg

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[Mike Phillips]

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Sanded Before
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass065.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass066.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass067.jpg


Richard aka rbottis working his magic
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass068.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass069.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass070.jpg


Beautiful!
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass071.jpg

[Mike Phillips]

Busy, busy, busy... when you know the right techniques to use with the right products and pads, it takes half of the work out of the process...

It also makes getting professional results faster, easier and most important... consistent for every car you work on...

Some people look for the lowest price, some people look for the fastest product, but if you're in this for the long run then their's no replacement for professional quality results that you can achieve consistently no matter what kind of paint system you're working on. Now that's valuable.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass072.jpg

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Last shot, parting shot, best shot...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/755/2AdvClass082.jpg





Thank you to everyone that attended this class.

:doublethumbsup2

[Kevin Brown]

What an absolutely WONDERFUL class...

Followed up with a TOP-NOTCH write-up!

Good times here at MOL... Great work, Mikes! :bigups

[54chris]

Man that looked like an awesome class I wish I could have made it! Nice write up! I think I will be tackling that same job my car has the same orange peel look to it and you guys totally made the car look 1000 times better!(Of coarse after attending this class :D )

[Sydster]

W5000 Dual Sided Wool Pad with Adapter to attach to the Rotary Buffer (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=193585)

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/668/W5000Adaptor001.jpg



Just one question about this adapter, got one from ADS recently and it did not fit in my makita rotary it does not screw all the way not even half way. Will I need a different adapter for the makita? Sorry to post this here, just thought it would be better since it was being talked about here.

[Mike Phillips]

Just one question about this adapter, got one from ADS recently and it did not fit in my Makita rotary it does not screw all the way not even half way. Will I need a different adapter for the Makita? Sorry to post this here, just thought it would be better since it was being talked about here.

If the adapter you bought looks like the one in the above picture, and your Makita is a normal Makita with a 5/8" course thread spindle, like this,

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/668/W5000Adaptor002.jpg

then it's possible the adapter you have has messed up threads. Look at them and you can even try to see if they'll thread onto a 5/8 course thread bolt as a way of trouble shooting.

Contact Rick, I'm sure he'll send you another one to try.

:)

[Sydster]

Thanks a lot Mike!

[Slick]

Last shot, parting shot, best shot...

:doublethumbsup2

Mike... I fixed it for you... much better now.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/dartboard1.jpg

[Maserati Mario]

Look what what I found on ebay;
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3075/mirm105kitmj1.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MEGUIARS-Meguiars-M105-COMPOUND-KIT-Polish-Auto-Detail_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a635Q7c39Q3a1Q7c65Q3a12QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem200226219768QQitemZ200226219768