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funkdoktor
Jun 10th, 2008, 05:35 AM
Does ScratchX have fillers? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24534)

As mentioned above....

Aloha :dp:

yalerd
Jun 10th, 2008, 06:16 AM
ScratchX uses diminishing abrasives that will safely remove fine scratches, swirls. When worked into the surface the abrasives diminish and that paint is polished to get some clarity.

It's not a product that will install nor cover/fill fine scratches

Rick McDonough
Jun 10th, 2008, 06:51 AM
Like Yalerd mentioned, Scratch-X does not contain anything to fill in a scratch (or below surface blemish), but instead will work to permanently remove fine below surface defects.

Andy M.
Jun 10th, 2008, 07:39 AM
To my knowledge, scratchx does not contain any fillers.

Check out this thread:

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1516&highlight=scratchx)

Andy
101impala

Mike Phillips
Jun 10th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Just to expand on what Rick stated and to clarify because we’ve noticed that there’s a lot of confusion on other forums about the topic of fillers.

Some people confuse filling with lubricating, they forget that polishing paint is about creating beauty, in the case of a paint cleaner like ScratchX or Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner, these products are typically used to remove defects, (things that make the paint ugly), in an effort to restore a more perfect surface which results in beauty, that is clarity, gloss and shine.

You can’t just take some sand and rub it on a clear coat finish and remove a defect and leave behind a clear glossy surface, the sand will remove whatever the original defect was but will leave behind its own scratches.

The point is, removing defects out of clear coat paints is more complex than some people understand, it requires it’s own unique type of cleaning agents to carefully remove small particles of paint as that’s how you remove a below surface defect is you remove particles of paint surrounding a defect in an effort to level the upper most portion of the surface with the lowest depth of the defect you’re trying to remove without instilling additional scratches

Make sense?

As stated above you just can’t take some type of abrasive particles, (for sake of argument we used sand because most people can picture sand in their mind as a type of abrasive particles), and rub it onto a clear coat finish to remove a defect and at the same time leave a defect-free surface.

It’s not going to happen.

Assuming this is true and it is, then we can all agree that removing a defect out of a clear coat finish is more complex and at some level you need to lubricate the surface during the cleaning process so you can reach your goal and the goal is to remove the ugly and create beauty.

Now let me tie this together, ScratchX is a paint cleaner and it is designed to remove below surface defects within its limits when it’s used correctly. Just to note, I demonstrate this during all of our Saturday classes in front of anywhere from 20 to 40 people watching everything I do and then inspecting the results with a Swirl Finder Light and with the SoCal sunlight when we back the car out of the garage.

ScratchX is designed and formulated to remove below surface defects, a part of this complex process requires that the surface be lubricated while the cleaning agents are being rubbed against the paint, the ingredients that lubricate the surface can also act to mask or fill minor imperfections. This is not the purpose of these ingredients but rather a side-effect as there’s no way to abrade a surface and create beauty without also lubricating it at the same time, at least we’ve never seen anyone do this in our over 100 year history of creating show winning beautiful finishes.

So while the confused and uniformed can twist this to mean that ScratchX fills, the truth is, correctly used, ScratchX removes below surface defects and is but one step of a multi-step process of removing defects and working the paint towards a beautiful high gloss finish. Polishing and waxing would be the next steps to build on the results created by a paint cleaner.

Let it also be noted that one of the primary things we do here on this forum is invest a lot of time teaching people how to remove swirls and scratches out of clear coat paints. A part of this is educating people that compared to old fashioned single stage paints, modern clear coat paints tend to be much more difficult to work on and that’s usually related to how hard the paint is itself thus making it hard to remove small particles of it in an effort to remove defects and level or flatten out the surface.

Keep in mind, we don’t make the paint, (were not paint manufactures), and we don’t choose the paint to put on car bodies, (we’re not car manufactures), we do get the joy of helping frustrated and disgruntled enthusiasts as they try to work on the paint that comes on the car.

Working defects out of clear coat paints is going to be more than a mechanical process, it’s going to be a complex process that borders on being an art form because it requires the right products, the right tools, the right techniques and the one thing we can’t put into a bottle or can and that’s the human elements of care and passion, that is caring about what your doing in such a way as to focus on the task at hand with car guy’s passion to accomplish the goal, (paint polishing step), successfully.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion over the topic of fillers you find so common on other forums.


Now...

What are you working on?


:)

funkdoktor
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:22 PM
thanks everybody i was just wondering.

Hemin8r
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Once you have successfully finished using the Scratch X apply your wax & you're ready to go. :xyxthumbs

V8Caprice
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:04 AM
Once you have successfully finished using the Scratch X apply your wax & you're ready to go. :xyxthumbs

Given that ScratchX contains lubricating oils, shouldn't they be washed away before waxing?

Greg.

Mike Phillips
Jun 11th, 2008, 06:00 AM
Given that ScratchX contains lubricating oils, shouldn't they be washed away before waxing?

Greg.

No.

This comes from Zaino people, you must have read this on some other forum.

There are two threads in Hot Topics that address this, (posted years ago). Maybe take it up as a challenge to see if you can find them and post the links to them here.

Keep in mind, our chemists understand the process. They make the waxes that go on after ALL the other products. One of the threads that addresses this in the Hot Topics forum uses our Mold Release Technology in an analogy and if anyone knows anything about the costs involved if you "Stick a mold", then they would understand that if it were necessary to wash off any pre-wax products we would have certainly been recommending this since 1950 when we introduced M08 Maximum Mold Release Wax.

:)

V8Caprice
Jun 13th, 2008, 06:21 PM
No.

This comes from Zaino people, you must have read this on some other forum.

Ok, thanks. Yes, I think it was mainly Zaino advice that had led me to believe this. I have also been blurring two things: inspecting the surface after paint correction, and simply having a surface which is ready for a LSP. It seems that if you trust that the paint correction has been done successfully, there is no need to remove every last bit of polish residue before applying the LSP, and in fact this may even be detremental when using the Meguiars system. However, if you do want to be absolutely sure (perhaps for educational/training purposes, or customer assurance) that the results of the paint correction are being inspected without ANYTHING being hidden due to a filling effect, then a suitable cleaner (such as isopropyl alcohol) should be used. And if this is done, polishing the surface afterwards may be even more important, before applying the LSP. Does this sound reasonable?


There are two threads in Hot Topics that address this, (posted years ago). Maybe take it up as a challenge to see if you can find them and post the links to them here.

I've been doing a lot of reading, but I forgot that you had actually asked me to post the links. However, I am sure this link is one of the two:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4831

Greg.

Jossy92
Jun 13th, 2008, 06:55 PM
.... due to a filling effect....

I am confused, is this a new thread about "filling effects" instead of ScratchX having fillers? I am a newbie and am trying to follow along.

Why did you change your question? I am lost.

Respectfully,:D

V8Caprice
Jun 13th, 2008, 07:30 PM
I am confused, is this a new thread about "filling effects" instead of ScratchX having fillers? I am a newbie and am trying to follow along.

Why did you change your question? I am lost.

Respectfully,:D

The question "changed" when it was mentioned that one can go straight from using ScratchX, to waxing. This was mentioned in passing, but I picked up on it. Sorry. :)

Anyway, it's my understanding from what Mike has said that ScratchX does NOT have anything in it for the sole purposes of "filling", however, it does have lubricating oils which are required for the product to work, and those oils do have the side effect of "filling". If we really really want to know what the surface of the paint looks like, without anything being hidden at all, then we could very thoroughly clean the surface after having used ScratchX. However, ScratchX is part of a system, and in fact helps to prepare the surface for the application of a Last Step Product (wax or sealant etc). So, all we need to do in most situations is wipe off the excess ScratchX, and then wax. And the wax acts as a "filler" as well. :)

I'm assuming that even if an IPA wipedown were done after using ScratchX (and wiping off the excess normally), that in most cases the difference would be very subtle. (has anyone ever noticed a big difference?)

Greg. (a newbie too)

Jossy92
Jun 14th, 2008, 06:53 AM
If we really really want to know what the surface of the paint looks like, without anything being hidden at all, then we could very thoroughly clean the surface.....
Greg. (a newbie too)

I aggree. But the answer was "no, ScratchX doesn't contain fillers" any more (as you point out) than an LSP does.

However, the title of your post suggests that it is an issue when it just might be one of definition: A "quibble" .... an argument over words. Arguing is not allowed and I understand that this forum has Meg-Ninjas with trained buzzards capable of hitting vehicles from hi altitudes. :chuckle1

Maybe we are not using the term "filler" in the manner used by the pros here and that is where the confusion lies. Also, it was suggested more research in the forums....a gentle way of suggesting a solution.

I am going to bail out of here and go back to the 101 forum. ScratchX takes a lot of work and I still see scratches, however they are slowly lessening. I don't feel anything is being hidden. I feel I am being protected from taking too much off too aggressively.

I remember reading about having a purpose and then finding the best solution. And when you share your solution you are doing "each one, teach one." I just am so new that I didn't/don't see your purpose and why is it important. Maybe that is why I am confused.

I fear I am one of the those cut and paste masters, so back I go to Detailing 101 as the more I talk the less I learn. But, thanks for clarifying.
:)

V8Caprice
Jun 14th, 2008, 01:55 PM
I am going to bail out of here and go back to the 101 forum. ScratchX takes a lot of work and I still see scratches, however they are slowly lessening. I don't feel anything is being hidden. I feel I am being protected from taking too much off too aggressively.

I've briefly tried ScratchX myself. I was using a ROB for the first time, with a swirl remover polish (not ScratchX) and I was only making things worse. Out of sheer frustration, I bought some ScratchX, and attempted to undo the damage I had done, by hand. I polished a tiny little area inside the damaged area. Low and behold, I could slowly see the surface being restored. I never achieved a glassy finish, but it was definitely better. I wondered how much of the improvement was "real", and how much was due to any residue sitting in the scratches/marring, because I never bothered to do an "IPA wipedown" or anything like that. (I only used a mist & wipe type of product). However, this patch of shininess lasted through multiple washes, which I thought was cute. :) It really did work.
(I then took the car to a professional, and he quickly and easily polished the whole area with a rotary.) So yes, in my brief experience with ScratchX, I haven't noticed any significant degree of sinister filling. :)

Greg.
p.s Just btw, this thread wasn't "my post", if that's what you meant - I didn't start it.

Tim Lingor
Jun 14th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Arguing is not allowed and I understand that this forum has Meg-Ninjas with trained buzzards capable of hitting vehicles from hi altitudes. :chuckle1


:chuckle1:chuckle1 I have not been called a Meg-Ninja before...time to get the buzzards out again...:D:D:D

Tim

Thriller
Jun 15th, 2008, 06:50 AM
Hi gang. I certainly don't have the answers, but I see words being tossed around, perhaps not entirely as intended. The Socratic method starts out by defining your terms. It is something I've struggled with a bit, but we need to distinguish between words like cleaner, polish, wax (or LSP if you'd prefer).

As I understand it, ScratchX falls under the category or cleaner. With the Meguiar's 5 step system of paint beautification / protection - http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2409 - are you not skipping a step by going directly to a LSP after ScratchX? I'm not saying it is wrong (so long as you don't harm your paint, you aren't doing anything wrong), but you may see better results incorporating a polishing step as well.

I'm far from an expert with ScratchX, but my thought on using it on a car is to use ScratchX on the worst / most visible defects by hand, then use another cleaner (Fine Cut Cleaner as one example) to work the rest of the car, then a polish, followed by wax / LSP. Mind you, my perspective is working on my Buicks...they are large cars and if I attempted to do the entire car with ScratchX, it would take me a week and I'd never move my arm again.

I hope this has been helpful, rather than muddying the waters further.

Jossy92
Jun 15th, 2008, 07:01 AM
:chuckle1
I've briefly tried ScratchX myself.... I polished a tiny little area....

Thanks for that info. I have been doing a foot square area. I need to switch to "tiny" as it is too much work given the results and so I need to focus that energy on a smaller area to first perfect the technique for my situation.

Also, I used a terry pad thinking it would help, but, it just absorbs the product and masks the "feel". I think. :scratchhead1


p.s Just btw, this thread wasn't "my post", if that's what you meant - I didn't start it.

I realized that when it was too late.:chuckle1 Hoped no one would notice. But then.......

that's what detailers do. duh :xyxthumbs

V8Caprice
Jun 15th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Note that I was polishing white paint, and a pro detailer told me it was single stage. (it looked single stage to me too) Apparently white paint is very hard paint, and so it is very difficult to polish. (however, he cleaned up my mess very quickly with a rotary, as I said) I have a clearcoated car now and I might give the ScratchX another go out of curiousity. However, I also now have a rotary polisher and I want to spend most of my time learning how to use it!

Greg.

Patman
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:52 AM
I am a HUGE fan of Scratch-X! I've got a black Corvette, and my usual method of removing swirls and light scratches with my DA has been to use either #83 or #80 first (depending on the severity of the area) then following it with #9 to get rid of any micromarring, then finishing it off with my LSP (I'm now using NXT 2.0, but last year I was using #21)

But on the advice of another black Corvette owner, he told me to try out Scratch-X with my DA instead and it does a fantastic job! The Corvette's clear coat is pretty hard, so usually one pass with any product doesn't do much, but when I make one pass over the car with Scratch-X (on my UDM set to speed 5, with a white LC polishing pad) it makes a major improvement in my finish! And not only that, but it leaves the finish shiny with no micromarring, so I don't need to do anything except go straight to my LSP! I also love how easy Scratch-X buffs off, it saves me a lot of time! I can now get better results in 90 minutes (including putting on the LSP!) than I used to get in three hours!

So if you guys haven't tried using Scratch-X over your entire finish with a DA yet, I urge you to give it a try, this stuff works like a charm!

Mike Phillips
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:20 AM
I am a HUGE fan of Scratch-X! I've got a black Corvette, and my usual method of removing swirls and light scratches with my DA has been to use either #83 or #80 first (depending on the severity of the area) then following it with #9 to get rid of any micro-marring, then finishing it off with my LSP (I'm now using NXT 2.0, but last year I was using #21)

But on the advice of another black Corvette owner, he told me to try out Scratch-X with my DA instead and it does a fantastic job! The Corvette's clear coat is pretty hard, so usually one pass with any product doesn't do much, but when I make one pass over the car with Scratch-X (on my UDM set to speed 5, with a white LC polishing pad) it makes a major improvement in my finish! And not only that, but it leaves the finish shiny with no micro-marring, so I don't need to do anything except go straight to my LSP! I also love how easy Scratch-X buffs off, it saves me a lot of time! I can now get better results in 90 minutes (including putting on the LSP!) than I used to get in three hours!

So if you guys haven't tried using Scratch-X over your entire finish with a DA yet, I urge you to give it a try, this stuff works like a charm!

Great testimonial based upon your real-world experience, maybe copy and paste this to create your own dedicated thread?

Sometimes a post like this is worthy of being it's own thread as it can get kind of buried in a thread.

:)

tcb 57
Jun 17th, 2008, 11:20 AM
After washing my car on the weekend, i noticed a neighbours cat has climbed across the bonnet ( hood ) and left heavy scratches !!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/2586894516_1816fb027e.jpg?v=0

Gave the car, in total, three applications of Meg. Scratch X .
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/2586894522_ef2b5cf597.jpg?v=0

Each application, the scratches became less noticeable,...until completely gone.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2586894528_9bd683a4b8.jpg?v=0

After the last buff, finished off car with NXT Wax. back to new.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/2578217801_d821da5679.jpg?v=0

Now, I'm going to go kill the cat !! :xyxthumbs

Patman
Jun 21st, 2008, 10:20 AM
Great testimonial based upon your real-world experience, maybe copy and paste this to create your own dedicated thread?

Sometimes a post like this is worthy of being it's own thread as it can get kind of buried in a thread.

:)

I'll do it right now Mike! :dp:

I put it in the Dual Action Polisher section, hopefully that's a good spot for the topic! (if not, could you move it to the most appropriate section Mike?)

Mike Phillips
Feb 13th, 2009, 10:30 AM
:bump2