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glacon
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26260)

I just got a new black car on Friday. It is buffer swirl, and holograms galore.

Is that just going to be the norm with a black car... or did the dealership's detailers just do a terrible job detailing?

Mike Phillips
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:36 AM
In a perfect world there should be no swirls in a new car or a brand new paint job.

As the car is improperly touched, it will gain swirls no matter what the color. Clear coats are harder paints than traditional single stage paints but scratch very easily and then because the swirls and scratches are in a clear layer of paint over the top of a colored layer of paint they show up to your eyes very easily.

Swirls are the norm for a daily driver if it's not meticulously cared for, this mean you can't take it to a car wash you have to take ownership of the car washing process yourself. (Car washing is "touching the paint).

Welcome to clear coats...
Welcome to clear coated black cars...

Is it too late to take it back for a silver metallic paint? Silver is harder to see the swirls because in the sun it kind of blinds you to look at it.


:)

SVT Lightning
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:36 AM
They sure don't come that way from the factory. You got what is called....DISO. Dealer Installed Swirl Option.

Mike Phillips
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:40 AM
Can you share a picture?

How to capture pictures of swirls in your car's paint (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13318)


:)

glacon
Aug 12th, 2008, 12:30 PM
I will post a picture shortly. Just moved to Cali from NY and have a million things to do.

I don't so much have a problem with the cob-webs, as I do the holograms. Are they essentially the same thing but just spotted close up versus from a distance?

I do think it is too late to return the car for silver. And I actually do want a black one. Is there anything I can make the dealer do to repair this? It really does look like a crappy buffer job.

Murr1525
Aug 12th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Swirls, scratches, cobwebs are all the same idea. Some just in more of a pattern, and deper than others.

If they did it bad once, they might just do it bad again. Too many bad jobs, and you'll be through the clear coat.

What kind of car is it? If you plan to care for your car a lot anyway, could be just as easy to do it yourself.

premier.mobile1
Aug 12th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Is there anything I can make the dealer do to repair this? It really does look like a crappy buffer job.

If you truely want this corrected, as Mike stated above, you must take ownership for the care of the paint on your vehicle. With the right tools and products (and you found the right place to learn what those are) you will eventually be able to maintain a finish on your vehicle that is to YOUR standards, not some dealership detailers standards. And you will find what works best and easiest for you. Eventually, you'll become obsessed and so on and then welcome to the club!!!!!! :wavey

:chuckle1:chuckle1:chuckle1

Mike Phillips
Aug 12th, 2008, 03:21 PM
As stated, if they couldn't do it right the first time they likely can't and won't do it right the second time, they'll just add some kind of wax to try to fill them in to make you happy when you pick up the car.

Later after you wash the car enough the swirls will show up again.

We can show you how if you want to attend one of our classes, the requirement is membership on the forum and reply to the sign-up thread.

2008 Saturday Detailing Class Schedule (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20684)


:xyxthumbs

glacon
Aug 13th, 2008, 01:59 PM
The service manager at the dealership says they actually have a guy who specializes in detailing black cars. I said I would stop buy and show him the problem and talk to him about fixing it...but that I was very apprehensive about letting them touch the car again. Can you guys recommend any questions I can ask this guy to see if he is any good? Any thing I can do to feel him out?

Murr1525
Aug 13th, 2008, 02:32 PM
You can certainly ask what products, what techniques.... let him show you one test spot....

Of course you would have to worry about the swirls just being covered, as mentioned above.

100kdown
Aug 13th, 2008, 02:46 PM
My daily driver has been a black Accord for going on 8 years. This is the fourth time I've sworn this will be my last black car. But there's something about them, when all cleaned up and swirl free. You just stand back and say Wow!

Regardless of how careful I am in the washing process-two bucket wash, lambswool mit, Goldclass soap, micro towels, etc, etc, sooner or later, I'll end up with swirls. So, I've succumbed to the realization that once a quarter I'm in for a full Clay/M83/M80/Wax job. I haven't run into swirls yet that this routine won't correct using a G110 and polishing pad.

Megs makes some fantastic products that will almost always correct the problem at hand. But it takes patience and perseverance to achieve the look you're after.

As for what to ask the dealer, frankly, I wouldn't trust them to do any better than they've already done. Regardless of what they may tell you. The clear coat on your new car is a precious commodity and you don't want someone else grinding away on it any more than is absolutely necessary.

Take some time and explore this forum. There is a ton of excellent information here and some darn nice folks willing to help you along the path.

glacon
Aug 13th, 2008, 03:10 PM
And as a newbie to all this, can you give me some examples of good products to use, and what techniques would best serve getting the swirls out?

Murr1525
Aug 13th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Here are some links that will show the proper steps, and techniques that we would use by hand and machine to deal with swirls, and car care in general.

You'll notice that we really dont use a rotary buffer for basic swirl removal, he certainly may, which is a whole nother set of variables, along with his skill level, etc.

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2409)
Step 1 Wash
Step 2 Clean
Step 3 Polish
Step 4 Protect
Step 5 Maintain

Suggested Products for Taking Care of a New Car (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7304)

How to Wash Your Car (ShowCar style!) ([URL="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7598756069207401372&q=wash+a+car&ei=bkd1SPvdBISaqQL1z5WIAQ&hl=en)

What it Means to Remove a Scratch (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7228)

How To Remove Swirls By Hand (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7011)

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1516)

How to correctly apply ScratchX to remove swirls and scratches (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6561779259119696224&ei=x0V1SK-hKJSGrQKuq8i7Aw&hl=en)

Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1395)

Recommended Products - G100a Dual Action Polisher (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7116)

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2965)

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2877)

glacon
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:21 PM
I just moved to Santa Monica from NY. My apartment complex here does not have a great set up for me detailing my own car. Any suggestions on places around town I could work on repairing the swirls? Any recommendations for a top-notch detailer who could do the work for me?

glacon
Aug 14th, 2008, 08:31 AM
Wow, finding a good detailer online is hard. If I talk to this place my dealership is recommending, I am going to ask hem how long they think it will take them to get all of the swirls out. Is 5-8 hours the correct answer?

Mike Phillips
Aug 14th, 2008, 08:55 AM
Wow, finding a good detailer online is hard. If I talk to this place my dealership is recommending, I am going to ask hem how long they think it will take them to get all of the swirls out. Is 5-8 hours the correct answer?

If they're fast and good and they don't have to wash the car and more than one person is working on it at one time then maybe, but just the swirl removal process alone using a DA Polisher on the average sized car takes 4-6 hours as you can't move the polisher fast or it doesn't do anything.

It also depends upon how deep the swirls are and how hard or soft the paint is, or how polishable the paint is.

Tell them you'll let them do it but you would like to see them do a small section first and then look at the results both inside the shop and out in the sun. This isn't the best test as a coat of wax can fill in swirls.

Removing swirls and created a swirl free finish is hard to do, especially on black paint, if it were easy everyone could do it. It's usually not a fast process and the reality is that if your car is a daily driver swirls are just going to come back over time just from normal washing and wiping unless you're really good and really careful with how you "touch" the paint.

That's the reality of clear coat paints.

Look at the pictures below and let us know what type of swirls you have, either cobweb type or rotary buffer swirls.


Cobweb Swirls vs Rotary Buffer Swirls (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21066)
Below is an explanation between the difference between random swirls and scratches that show up in what is commonly referred to as Cobweb Swirls as compared to Rotary Buffer Swirls.


Cobweb Scratches or Cobweb Swirls
Actually, the term cobweb swirls or spiderweb swirls comes from the fact that when you look at the paint in such a way as to place the reflection of the sun or another source of bright light so that it's on a painted panel, you'll see what looks like swirls and scratches forming in a circular pattern around the point of light.

Cobweb Scratches or Cobweb Swirls
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2VolvoHorrificSwirlsCrop.jpg



Cobweb Scratches or Cobweb Swirls
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2WhiteTruckBefore.jpg


Now if you move around a little bit so as to move the point of light around on the panel you'll see what looks as though the cobweb swirls are following the point of light. The cobweb swirls are not actually following the point of light what's really happening is that the entire finish is so filled with random scratches that wherever you place the point of light you'll see the circular or cobweb pattern show up because the random scratches will reflect the light back towards the center of this point of light. So as you move the point of light around on a painted panel it looks as though the cobweb swirls are following the point of light.

Does that make sense?

The scratches are not specifically circle scratches, they could be a all straight-line scratches but the effect is they look circular because the point of light is circular and the light hitting the hundreds of thousands of scratches are all reflecting back to the center of the point of light making it look as though the scratches are all circular when that's not the case.



Buffer swirls or Buffer Trails or Holograms
Swirls instilled through the use and mis-use of a rotary buffer will tend to show up in a pattern that reflect the direction the rotary buffer was moved over the surface.

Rotary Buffer Instilled Swirls
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2MB2GrossSwirls1jRAW-med.jpg



Rotary Buffer Instilled Swirls
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2700_ClubLexus001.jpg

glacon
Aug 14th, 2008, 09:28 AM
The majority of the swirls are holograms and resemble the bottom two pictures. There are some cobwebs on the hood though.

glacon
Aug 14th, 2008, 10:07 AM
Are there any resources anyone could point me to, so that I might find a skilled professional to fix these problems.

Mike Phillips
Aug 14th, 2008, 11:49 AM
The majority of the swirls are holograms and resemble the bottom two pictures. There are some cobwebs on the hood though.


That means the swirls were instilled by someone misusing a rotary buffer on your car, if this happened at the dealership then they should pay to have it fixed and you shouldn't trust them to do the job right the second time.

Print this post out and show them the verdict on their work.

Usually works best to print out in Landscape mode.

Remember, each time you have the clear coat on your new car buffed, especially with a rotary buffer, you are removing precious clear paint off the surface which reduces the film-build of the clear layer of paint.

All the UV protection for the basecoat is in the clear layer, so the more clear paint that is removed the less UV protection you have for the basecoat over the service life of the car.

You shouldn't have to accept a new car with rotary buffer swirls.

Ask the owner of the dealership if he would accept this kind of quality?

If he or she says "No", then ask them what they would do?

Tell him you want a brand new version that no one has touched, let them deal with the swirls and finding a person to buy the swirled out brand new car. For the kind of money a new car costs you shouldn't have to accept a swirled out paint job and then have to deal with it.

Just another dealership horror story on a detailing discussion forum.


:sosad1

Mike Phillips
Aug 14th, 2008, 11:51 AM
Are there any resources anyone could point me to, so that I might find a skilled professional to fix these problems.


You can post a thread here for a Pro Detailer and hopefully someone with a good history on this forum or some other forum will help you out.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=143

What did you pay for the new car?

Should you be having to deal with less clear coat on the car and now having someone else fix it?

glacon
Aug 14th, 2008, 02:59 PM
The dealer is willing to pay to have an outside detailer fix it. He is not willing to replace the car with a new untouched one. This is why I was hoping to find someone who could recommend a good detailer in my area.

premier.mobile1
Aug 15th, 2008, 08:43 AM
The dealer is willing to pay to have an outside detailer fix it. He is not willing to replace the car with a new untouched one. This is why I was hoping to find someone who could recommend a good detailer in my area.

http://www.superiorshine.com/

Joe at Superior Shine is one of the best I've seen around, and it looks like he may be near you.

glacon
Aug 16th, 2008, 01:51 PM
Well I pushed the dealer on Superior Shine, and rather than pay the $600 he actually took the car back and is going to issue a check on Monday for a full refund. So, now I have no car... but also no swirls.

I love that car in black. And it would sadden me to settle for a different color, but it might be best in the long run. I have heard that silver cars don't hold their color over time as well as dark cars. That they fade. Any truth to that claim?

Raymond4646
Aug 16th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Well I pushed the dealer on Superior Shine, and rather than pay the $600 he actually took the car back and is going to issue a check on Monday for a full refund. So, now I have no car... but also no swirls.

I love that car in black. And it would sadden me to settle for a different color, but it might be best in the long run. I have heard that silver cars don't hold their color over time as well as dark cars. That they fade. Any truth to that claim?

Great job on getting your money back. I know it can be a challenge to deal with certain car dealerships. Considering you do not have a garage or proper tools/product to prevent future occurrences, I would suggest, taking your vehicle to Superior Shine's to be prepped. His dedication to 100% satisfaction is out of this world. I’m sure he will give you some pointers as well.

If I were you, I'd get another black car..But, read this forum frontwards and backwards, buy a g110 or other random orbital polisher that will not instill buffer swirls/holograms and step back and relearn how to limit the swirls you instill into your paint. Then, follow up with your polisher with M80 to correct every so often. M80 and the g110 are mild enough to be used as necessary. Just find a cool shady area to wash and polish where you live.

Also do this, only wash your vehicle yourself. No carwashes.. Even the touchless washes use harsh soaps that strip your wax off. Just remember, with a black vehicle your room for error is 0.. There can never be a quick car wash or I'll just quick detail it since it’s a little dusty.. You have to form a dedicated, well thought out plan that allows you to wash the vehicle without instilling any swirls or scratches. And hope that your vehicle is not extremely scratch sensitive. And try to have fun all while doing it.. Just remember, you have an eye for swirls now and it will only become keener as time goes on..Unless you trick them by applying wax every other day to fill in the swirls..:D

glacon
Aug 16th, 2008, 04:08 PM
With my new car, be it black or silver, I will be telling the dealer not to detail the car. Should I tell them not to wax it, not to wash it? What instructions will serve me best to give them?

Raymond4646
Aug 16th, 2008, 06:15 PM
With my new car, be it black or silver, I will be telling the dealer not to detail the car. Should I tell them not to wax it, not to wash it? What instructions will serve me best to give them?
Honestly, Tell them to leave the protective shipping film on the car..No prep what so ever to the paint..

glacon
Aug 16th, 2008, 06:48 PM
Remember I am a novice, did not own a car in NYC. Is washing the car considered prep to the paint?

9C1 MAN
Aug 16th, 2008, 09:20 PM
Hey all just have to say i have 08 honda civic black. Today i polished it with a 9006 pad and d151. I took out the dealer swirls but when you look really close you can see some micro marring. Mike hopeing you or tim can chime in on this. I used my g100 to apply speed 3 also new pad primed. Tks john.

Mike Phillips
Aug 16th, 2008, 11:47 PM
Hey all just have to say i have 08 honda civic black. Today i polished it with a 9006 pad and d151. I took out the dealer swirls but when you look really close you can see some micro marring. Mike hopeing you or tim can chime in on this. I used my g100 to apply speed 3 also new pad primed. Tks john.

You should start your own thread instead of tagging onto this one. If you don't know how to start your own thread we keep a picture on the bottom of the forum homepage that shows you how, here you go...


If you want to start a new thread, then click to the appropriate forum by clicking here (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/index.php) and selecting the forum that best describes what your topic will be about and then look for the button on the left hand side of the page that says, New Thread and click on it. You'll see a place to type in your Subject and below that a message box that you can type your message into. After you're finished with your message, click on the Submit New Thread button and your message will be posted to the forum.


http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/StartingAnewThreadsmall.jpg

Mike Phillips
Aug 16th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Remember I am a novice, did not own a car in NYC. Is washing the car considered prep to the paint?

Sure but it's limited to removing loose dirt. Most people consider the real prep work to start after washing the car when you clay, (if needed), and then use a product to remove swirls and scratches, (if needed).

Like already stated in this thread, when you go to buy a new car tell them not to wash or wax or detail the car in anyway, even share your recent experience.

:)

Daniel Kinder
Aug 17th, 2008, 06:10 AM
hey galgcon

Glad you got your money back and rid of the DIHO car.

When you buy another car make it clear for them not to wash/prep the car in any way or you will not take it.

I worked at a dealership and if you don't get nasty and make it clear that they had better not wash the car, they will any ways because that is what they are supposed to do and will!

Unless the salesman or owner of the dealership goes and tells them not to wash your new car, it will be washed

glacon
Aug 17th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Thanks you have all been very helpful. I really appreciate all of your time and input.

glacon
Aug 18th, 2008, 07:51 PM
I had a related yet unrelated question, if you guys don't mind answering it. I am new to car ownership having lived in NYC till recently. Just bought my replacement car today, a gunmetal gray Honda Accord Coupe. Did not let them do any prep to it. It has a scrape on the bottom front bumper. Looks like a pebble hit it or something, as it's round and pebble shaped. Dealer says if I bring it back he has an outside company who touches that stuff up for them on Fridays. They make all the used cars look good, and touch up things that happen to the new ones in transport. Is this a reasonable thing to let the dealer handle?

Mike Phillips
Aug 18th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Is this a reasonable thing to let the dealer handle?


Yes.

Let them fix the problem but don't let them touch the rest of the car. You have to let them know you're serious when you tell them

Don't wash the car
Don't detail the car
Don't polish the paint
Don't wax the paint
Don't touch the paint

If you have to, print this thread out in Landscape mode and show it to them, let them know you don't want them to touch the paint in any way shape or forum except for the touch-up to the scrape on the bottom of the bumper.

Be nice but be firm.

Congratulation on getting out of the DISO car and getting into an untouched car.


:xyxthumbs

glacon
Aug 18th, 2008, 10:47 PM
They know I am bringing it back and they are only to touch up that small spot. I even told them I want to talk to the person doing the work before they touched it. It ***** that the car had a blemish like that before I even drove it off the lot. From your response, it sounds like it's relative normal to have a small scrape like that in need of a quick touch up?

Mike Phillips
Aug 19th, 2008, 09:53 AM
From your response, it sounds like it's relative normal to have a small scrape like that in need of a quick touch up?


Damage happens to cars in the process of getting it from the assembly line to the dealership showroom floor, that's life.

Let them touch it up and then take ownership of maintaining your new car's appearance.

:xyxthumbs

glacon
Aug 19th, 2008, 10:38 AM
Cool. Once again thanks for everything. This is a great forum.

glacon
Aug 22nd, 2008, 04:28 PM
My clear coat question du jour... I took the Accord to the dealership where the outside paint guy fixed the part of my bumper with the little paint scrapes. They evened out those two pits primed it and painted it all in less than an hour. I'd say it looks like they did a good job. The one thing I noticed was that there are lots of either tiny bubbles or pin holes in the clear coat where they did the work. They said after about 48 hours those could be wiped out with a micro-fiber cloth. Does that sound right? They don't look like they would wipe out. If they don't wipe out can they be waxed out?

Mike Phillips
Dec 23rd, 2008, 08:22 AM
My clear coat question du jour... I took the Accord to the dealership where the outside paint guy fixed the part of my bumper with the little paint scrapes.


Help us out here, is this a different car than the one you got your money back for?




The one thing I noticed was that there are lots of either tiny bubbles or pin holes in the clear coat where they did the work.

They said after about 48 hours those could be wiped out with a micro-fiber cloth.

Does that sound right?


No. That sound like solvent popping or pin holes, which are paint defects that are throughout the film of paint, not merely on the surface of the paint. If these were only topical, that is a defect on the top surface then you could abrade them off and then polish the paint back to a glossy finish but if they are defects that are in the paint or throughout the paint then they cannot be removed because to remove them would mean abrading or compounding the paint till you reach where they start and if they start at the panel then this means you would remove all the paint, therefore they cannot be removed, at least if the goal is to have good looking paint on the car.




They don't look like they would wipe out. If they don't wipe out can they be waxed out?


Waxing only applies a topical layer of protection, to remove a defect in the paint you need to remove a portion of the paint until all of the defect has been removed, in other words you have to level the paint to the lowest depth of the defect.

This article explains this in exacting detail and is shared so often on this forum not only is it in the Hot Topics (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80) forum group it's also a "Sticky" so it's always at the top and quickly and easily available so people like me can quickly and easily access it, grab the clickable code to copy and paste into a thread like this...

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything... (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7228)

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2scratchesinpaint.jpg


Although the subject uses the word "Scratch" the principals explained include any defect that is "in" the paint.


:D

glacon
Jan 27th, 2009, 03:42 PM
I had returned my black buffer swirled car for a graphite gray car with no buffer swirls or holograms. The new car was rear ended two months later. I got the bumper repaired and told them that they needed to make sure there were no holograms or buffer swirl on the car. Of course there are holograms a plenty where they worked on it, some that look like straight streaks in the clear coat. Showed them the problem and they are going to fix it. Is there anything I can tell them to make sure they get it right, and get all that stuff out of the clear coat the first time?

Mike Phillips
Jan 27th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Is there anything I can tell them to make sure they get it right, and get all that stuff out of the clear coat the first time?


IF this is a typical body shop then they're likely only going to use rotary buffer and not a DA Polisher.

Chances they don't have an electric DA Polisher like our G110 or a PC but they should have an air-powered DA Sander and they could use this for their last machine step using any of the below,

M205
M105
M83
M80
M82
M09

Of course for the lighter products listed above they will have to have finished with a very shallow swirl from their rotary step, not heavy swirls from some archaic compound and worn/tatty wool pad.

If they don't own M105 or have never heard of it before you might clue them in because by itself with a wool pad in good shape will get most paints to about 90% of a swirl free finish.

Sorry to say, your experience is the norm for body shop quality.

Big picture is this, if they're going to finish with a wool pad on a rotary buffer then you're likely going to have some swirls. Most body shops will be sure to do a good job of glazing the paint before you show up with products like M07 Show Car Glaze or 3M Imperial Hand Glaze which will only mask the swirls left by their buffing work.

While it's possible to achieve a swirl free finish using only a rotary, that's an art form, not thE norm.

Keep in mind, each time they compound the paint they're removing paint that you just paid to have sprayed onto the car. So hopefully they'll be experienced to know not to just keep compounding the problem, (no pun intended).

Just be up front and ask them

What are you going to use for products?
What are you going to use for a pad
What kind of machine are you using for the final machine process

Print this out and take it with you. We teach people that work at body shops how to produce customer pleasing swirl-free results all the time, all it takes is for an owner and the employee doing the work to care about the quality of their work, their customer and their reputation.

Good luck... let us know how it turns out...

:)

RYB
Aug 12th, 2009, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=Mike Phillips;238548]In a perfect world there should be no swirls in a new car or a brand new paint job.

As the car is improperly touched, it will gain swirls no matter what the color. Clear coats are harder paints than traditional single stage paints but scratch very easily and then because the swirls and scratches are in a clear layer of paint over the top of a colored layer of paint they show up to your eyes very easily.

Swirls are the norm for a daily driver if it's not meticulously cared for, this mean you can't take it to a car wash you have to take ownership of the car washing process yourself. (Car washing is "touching the paint).

Welcome to clear coats...
Welcome to clear coated black cars...

Is it too late to take it back for a silver metallic paint? Silver is harder to see the swirls because in the sun it kind of blinds you to look at it.


:)I have had some problems with wax smearing on black vehicles and I have to go over with a wet micro rag then dry. Is there a good wax for black vehicles that does not have to sit on vehicle very long?

RYB
Boehmanr@aol.com

gainesvilledetailing
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:23 AM
They sure don't come that way from the factory. You got what is called....DISO. Dealer Installed Swirl Option.

plus 1. Those things should be almost as good as they can get. With that said I always recommend a clay bar treatment if not a little polishing to my customers when they get a brand new vehicle. Most of the time new cars have not been cared for properly while on the lot. A lot of people test driving, sales people in a hurry. All of this can and will lead to the aforementioned DSIO

bullitt21
Nov 15th, 2009, 12:19 AM
I get these all the time, it's 60% of my business fixing DISM's. Here's an example. I won't mention the name, but this particular car came from a dealer in Houston that only sells high end cars, and the one in the picture is one of their lower end cars. When I looked at there website and saw the caliber of cars, I thought I hope there not doing this to all the Exotics that roll through there.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SJ4i3ao0jME/SrGl1VJxfhI/AAAAAAAADB4/WebCvo__1BA/s640/100_0197.JPG

EPHIOS
Jan 27th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Always everyone have swirls on their cars, especially the black ones!

THE BIG BUFFER
Jan 27th, 2010, 09:45 AM
Always everyone have swirls on their cars, especially the black ones!

I disagree. I have done many, many black car with no swirls. Experience, patience, proper products and equipment will allow a swirl free finish.

SVT Lightning
Jan 27th, 2010, 01:49 PM
I disagree. I have done many, many black car with no swirls. Experience, patience, proper products and equipment will allow a swirl free finish. And proper washing and drying techniques will reduce them coming back.....but for a black daily driver, swirls are a fact of life in the long run!

davey g-force
Jan 27th, 2010, 02:14 PM
And proper washing and drying techniques will reduce them coming back.....but for a black daily driver, swirls are a fact of life in the long run!

Yes but easy to minimse and keep on top of with some time, care, patience and knowledge.

...even on a black dd...