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View Full Version : Do you use a cleaner before going to your LSP?



RaskyR1
Nov 26th, 2008, 09:34 AM
So I've seen this a lot on a few of those other forums, where the detailer wipes the whole car down with some sort of cleaner, like an IPA solution, prior to going to their LSP.

I'm just courious how many of you do this, and if so, why?

Just to clarify, this is after doing a paint correction, not just to remove an old wax. So it would be like M105, M80, IPA, LSP.

Thanks,
Rasky

PorscheGuy997
Nov 26th, 2008, 09:49 AM
I believe the idea of doing an IPA wipedown is to make sure that nothing is left on the surface - glaze, product remnants, etc.

Some claim that certain products 'fill,' so the surface must be wiped with IPA to remove anything that would potentially hide paint defects.

Others claim that the protectant bonds better if the surface is perfectly clean.


Honestly, I don't use an IPA solution on the family cars or when I detail. I used it once just to make sure that a product was not hiding anything, but that's about it.

RaskyR1
Nov 26th, 2008, 09:56 AM
I believe the idea of doing an IPA wipedown is to make sure that nothing is left on the surface - glaze, product remnants, etc.

Some claim that certain products 'fill,' so the surface must be wiped with IPA to remove anything that would potentially hide paint defects.

Others claim that the protectant bonds better if the surface is perfectly clean.


Honestly, I don't use an IPA solution on the family cars or when I detail. I used it once just to make sure that a product was not hiding anything, but that's about it.


I will do it on my test spot just to ensure there is no marring and to make sure my process is meeting my expectations. Doing it to the whole car after just getting done with the final polishing step seems to be taking a step back, not forward...

AeroCleanse
Nov 26th, 2008, 09:58 AM
I probably would if I were detailing show cars, but currently I dont.

Mike Phillips
Nov 26th, 2008, 10:38 AM
No

Move from one step to the next step. Make sure I'm getting the results I expect from the test spot at the very beginning and once the test post proves itself then it's time to move forward with the buff-out.

:)

Murr1525
Nov 26th, 2008, 10:45 AM
No, it would remove your polishing oils, unless you were to add a pure polish back after the IPA.

roushstage2
Nov 26th, 2008, 11:14 AM
No, it would remove your polishing oils, unless you were to add a pure polish back after the IPA.
Agreed. You would have to re-do the whole car.

RaskyR1
Nov 26th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Good, it looks unanimous so far...I though maybe I was missing something. :D

Mike Phillips
Nov 26th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Moved to Member's Polls (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=130)

That way it will show up in the Poll section of the homepage.

:xyxthumbs

J. A. Michaels
Nov 26th, 2008, 03:10 PM
To me it would be starting over. Do not see the need for that.

akimel
Nov 26th, 2008, 06:52 PM
It does appear that a majority of folks over at AutoGeek and Autopia apply Prep-Sol or an IPA solution before applying their LSP. They believe that the durability and longevity of the LSP, especially if it is a synthetic sealant, requires as squeaky clean a surface as possible. See, e.g., this thread:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-forum/15962-thoughts-using-paint-cleaner-cleanser-after-polish.html

Does it really matter?

Al

gb387
Nov 26th, 2008, 07:15 PM
Whoops... I clicked the wrong one. My actual answer is 'NO'... Sorry

Ryan L.
Nov 26th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Nope..never have, never will. Unless I'm testing products, which I did with Ultimate Quik Wax.

Ryan

Tom Weed
Nov 27th, 2008, 05:21 PM
My answer would be no as well, do a small section with glass cleaner and check my work, but that's it. I've never had any problems with my LSP holding up because I put it on after a polish.

jmakado
Nov 27th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Nope. I wipe down my test spot after it's complete to check my work but that's it. I am no chemist but I trust the chemists at Meguiar's when they say that it's a system and designed to work together. I like the look that polishing oils add to paint. And at the end of the day I am just trying to make the paint look good :)

miahjohn
Nov 28th, 2008, 06:20 AM
i agree ^ the oils and other stuff in the polish must be put in there for a reason by megs chemist so i say leave it on the paint.

akimel
Nov 28th, 2008, 07:07 AM
Of course, not everyone who uses Meguiar's polishes then finish their work with a Meguiars' wax. So the question becomes, Are there some waxes or sealants that need a squeaky clean surface in order to bond to it? I gather that some synthetic sealants, because of their cross-linking polymers, do not bond well, or as well, when applied to a surface where polishing oils are present. It would be nice to know which sealants require a squeaky clean surface.

But do carnauba waxes have this problem? Given that thousands of people over many decades have been applying various kinds of carnauba waxes to cars that have been polished and glazed with Meguiar's products, I doubt that bonding is an issue. But I do not have any direct experience or data to support my opinion.

Markus Kleis
Nov 29th, 2008, 05:01 AM
It does appear that a majority of folks over at AutoGeek and Autopia apply Prep-Sol or an IPA solution before applying their LSP. They believe that the durability and longevity of the LSP, especially if it is a synthetic sealant, requires as squeaky clean a surface as possible. See, e.g., this thread:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-forum/15962-thoughts-using-paint-cleaner-cleanser-after-polish.html

Does it really matter?

Al The reason for the IPA wipe-down according to those individuals is NOT to clean the surface to maximize adhesion of LSPs, but it is intended to remove "bad" polishing oils (per their viewpoint) that "hide" the true condition of the paint ("fillers" as they often call them).

It's usually used only in the test spots to make sure the process is giving "true" results and correction, but is not necessary for the entire vehicle in most cases.

akimel
Nov 29th, 2008, 07:06 AM
The reason for the IPA wipe-down according to those individuals is NOT to clean the surface to maximize adhesion of LSPs, but it is intended to remove "bad" polishing oils (per their viewpoint) that "hide" the true condition of the paint ("fillers" as they often call them).

Actually, Mark, if you read through the thread I cited, I think you will discover that many of those who now do IPA or PrepSol wipedowns are also concerned that dirt and polishing oils will interfere with the effective bonding of the LSP. In fact, it has pretty much become a truism on some detailing forums that polishing oils disrupt the cross-linking bonding of synthetic polymer sealants. It is my impression that this belief is now being extended, though not without controversy and dispute, to all LSPs, at least in the sense that a squeaky clean surface is intimated to be an optimal bonding condition even for carnauba waxes.

Cheers,
Al

Jokeman
Dec 5th, 2008, 07:03 AM
I do it before I do my winter sealant on my truck. I use opti-seal since I have had great luck with its longevity during our nasty winters. Anything that can withstand living on the ocean, next to logan airport(jet fuel) and driving 200 miles north every weekend on heavily salted roads and still bead after the winter is a winner in my book.

Heatgain
Dec 5th, 2008, 04:10 PM
I've read on other forums about doing this. But usually, my product just before my LSP is #80 and it doesn't make sense to me to remove those oils that are put into #80 to restore shine.

Nappers
Dec 5th, 2008, 05:05 PM
After reading a while and figuring out what IPA was....LOL

I just keep on trucking from wash to wax (I do the interior after drying to make sure it's dry)

Aaron

chessplayer
Dec 7th, 2008, 12:48 AM
seems like then you would have to start over again

TLMitchell
Jan 29th, 2009, 10:01 AM
.....next to logan airport(jet fuel)....

Speaking of jet fuel, I work at an airport and the parking lot is near a turboprop engine test stand. When the wind's light and the parking lot is downwind the cars get coated with exhaust vapor. You want to remove wax, tar and just about anything else from your finish, use kerosene. And jet fuel is nothing but highly refined kerosene.

For a while I couldn't figure out why my usually long-lasting wax wasn't lasting long at all sometimes. Once I started parking with the building between the test stand and the car that situation improved considerably. I don't know how one might avoid that if you were parking frequently near a large airport with jet fuel vapors all over the place.

TL

xantonin
May 29th, 2009, 05:01 AM
I polish then do the LSP.

In my experience it strengthens the LSP because the surface is even more smooth and everything just slides on it.

xantonin
May 29th, 2009, 05:02 AM
Oh ****, I brought back an old post, sort of. I just saw that it was bumped because someone voted in it so I replied, didn't read the dates lol

Ivan Rajic
May 29th, 2009, 06:56 AM
seems like then you would have to start over again

Why would you have to start over? Polishing removes clearcoat, and the removal of clearcoat 'fixes' scratches... removing any polishing oils and lubricants left on the surface will not change what you've done to the paint cutting wise...


I polish then do the LSP.

In my experience it strengthens the LSP because the surface is even more smooth and everything just slides on it.

It's smooth because of the polish left over, which is exactly why people use IPA wipe downs... to make sure they're applying the LSP to the surface of the paint and not mixing it with anything else.

If I'm using M80 then NXT 2.0, 26, 21 then I'll just do a quick QD wipe down with M34 to ensure no dust is left over before the LSP... if using a polish and LSP from two different manufacturers though, always IPA wipe down.

As Akimel said, this isn't the same thing as doing the IPA wipe down to ensure the paint as actually in the state in which it appears to be...

TH0001
Jun 16th, 2009, 04:14 AM
I'm with Ivan...

If the actual paint correction is true, then wiping the surface with alcohol isn't going to make much of a difference either ways. Yes you could remove some polishing oils or glazes that deepen the look of paint, but I have NEVER noticed a change in the appearance of the paint IF the paint correction was spot on.

If my goal is to get a car 100% perfect with true paint correct, absolutely I am going to wipe it down, repeatley, after every step. I need to see exactly what I am working with at all time so I can plot the course to perfection.

By the same token if it is a 1 step polish, where the goal is to make the car look great in the least amount of steps possible, the I won't do a wipe down, since that can add more steps. I really didn't did get good at polishing until I started doing wipedowns.

As far as LSP bonding, I think it depends on the LSP...

RaskyR1
Jun 16th, 2009, 12:00 PM
A lot of my reason for starting this thread was because of this post I found a long while back.

The main part of the post that caught my attention was this....

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application.

This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So by using IPA or similar to wipe down the paint after polishing, would go against the advice of Meguiars Chemists....no?


http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37356&postcount=6

Ivan Rajic
Jun 16th, 2009, 12:33 PM
A lot of my reason for starting this thread was because of this post I found a long while back.

The main part of the post that caught my attention was this....

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application.

This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

So by using IPA or similar to wipe down the paint after polishing, would go against the advice of Meguiars Chemists....no?


http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37356&postcount=6

I think that's up for discussion... it's not like wax is pure carnauba wax applied to the finish... also, I have yet to have a bonding problem on any paint after an IPA wipedown, and so do many others...

I guess if I'm to believe the above statement, I want to know why it won't adhere on its own, and how do the oils help... do they mix with the wax to bond to the surface, do they bond to the surface and wax bonds to the oils?...

Bert31
Jun 16th, 2009, 12:41 PM
Yes and no. I generally clay and apply my sealant about 4 times a year. I generally like to clean or polish my paint twice a year (every six months or so). If the paint needs a little glossing, I will polish if not I will use a paint cleaner. So basically, so basically two times are year I am cleaning or polishing the paint and two times a year (between the paint polishing or cleaning) I am just adding fresh layer of sealant.

RaskyR1
Jun 16th, 2009, 01:54 PM
I think that's up for discussion... it's not like wax is pure carnauba wax applied to the finish... also, I have yet to have a bonding problem on any paint after an IPA wipedown, and so do many others...

I guess if I'm to believe the above statement, I want to know why it won't adhere on its own, and how do the oils help... do they mix with the wax to bond to the surface, do they bond to the surface and wax bonds to the oils?...


I'm only looking for the answers. :D

The above quote suggested that the polishing oils would only help...not that they were required. So obviously removing them with IPA is not going to cause any problems.

I would however like to think the chemists know more than me about their products and how they work. I'm sure the above quote only pertains to Megs products too.

I know IPA and other solvents dry the heck out of my hands, and I just don't like the idea using them on paint...even though they are needed for checking work.

Jossy92
Jun 24th, 2009, 07:40 AM
I have an old car with white spots on the hood. So if I understand the gist of this thread, I don't need IPA because there is no need as I already know the condition of the paint and I am trying protect it not fix it.

So, I am guessing I want the oils of a polish (or maybe a glaze) to help prevent the margins of my white spots from drying out and further chipping away and getting bigger.

In which case, I am thinking of starting with biggest spot,wiping it down with an IPA dampened q-tip to make sure the "white" is not dried polish and then doing the same thing with a "glaze" dampened q-tip to oil the chip and then an LSP.

If I let the LSP completely set up, I now have an LSP with extra oils since both the LSP and the glaze were allowed to set up before the final wipedown?

As a newbie, thanks for all the great posts. I appreciate it when the "big dogs" can share and agree to dissagree with mutual repect.
Jeff

Zeta Detail
Dec 3rd, 2009, 03:59 PM
I really didn't did get good at polishing until I started doing wipedowns.
That statement by Todd means that left-over polish and oils can interfere with subsequent polishing steps. Given his experience, I value his opinions highly.

What I usually do in full jobs is to wash the car again before applying wax. That's my way of making sure that the surfaces are clean before any LSP is applied. As far as I know IPA can be very toxic, to what degree when mixed with water I don't know, and I prefer not to handle toxic substances.

searle
Dec 4th, 2009, 05:30 PM
Most of the time I just wash then wax-booster spray (weekly) or re-wax (monthly). Twice per year a do the full wash+clay+cleaner+polish/glaze+wax.

By cleaner here I mean a paint cleaner like DC1 or cleaner+polish like SwirlX, I dont ever use anything that would strip my polish/glaze except as part of the semi-annual detailing.

Normally you just want to wax a reasonably clean car. If you want to fully clean and prepare it, then the clay+paintCleaner is the route.

David Fermani
Sep 6th, 2010, 04:23 AM
After paint correction.....Power Wash>>>Dawn Wash>>>IPA>>>Sealant.

SVT Lightning
Oct 8th, 2010, 01:47 PM
That statement by Todd means that left-over polish and oils can interfere with subsequent polishing steps. Given his experience, I value his opinions highly.

What I usually do in full jobs is to wash the car again before applying wax. That's my way of making sure that the surfaces are clean before any LSP is applied. As far as I know IPA can be very toxic, to what degree when mixed with water I don't know, and I prefer not to handle toxic substances.

IPA is only toxic if you drink it.....hospitals use it all the time.

SVT Lightning
Feb 15th, 2011, 01:32 PM
No, it would remove your polishing oils, unless you were to add a pure polish back after the IPA.
Exactly!!!!!

Isla
Feb 15th, 2011, 01:38 PM
answer yes !

i really like DC1 to clean before a LSP


as i like other brand too : CL68 , top inspection , RMG , PPE , Rosa, IHG...

did you guy's wear glooves when aplly an LSP ?

szladob
Jul 21st, 2013, 08:56 AM
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