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View Full Version : Final polishing step with a rotary or a DA?



RaskyR1
Nov 26th, 2008, 01:04 PM
For those of you that use both rotary polishers and Dual Action polishers; do you finish off with the rotary or a DA. I've seen some claim that the rotary produces a better finish than a DA. They use the terms "Jeweling" or "Burnishing" the paint. Now this is assuming you can achive a swirl free finish with a rotary, and I think we can all agree that is easier done with a DA, but for the poll lets asume you can have swirl free with the rotary.

Now I've never done a side by side comparison between the two, so do you feel the rotary does indeed produce a better finish than the DA?

For the sake of the poll lets assume that the time/money factor is not an issue.

Thanks,
Rasky

RaskyR1
Nov 26th, 2008, 01:09 PM
I voted "it looks the same", as I've never actually compared them. I learned on a rotary and it was all I used for the first 14 years of my detailing career. I now like following up with a DA to ensure 100% swirl free results. Time is not an issue for me as I only detail for fun now, and want the best possible end result for my customers....which is part of the reason for the poll. :thinking1


Rasky

Mike Phillips
Nov 26th, 2008, 01:46 PM
The rotary has the ability to leave a very clear, high gloss finish whereas on some paint systems, using the same pad and product, (as used on the rotary), you'll see haze left by the DA Polisher which is actually a type of scratch or tick mark.

The rotary of course can leave very fine, hard to see holograms which can be easily masked with a coat of quality car wax or a paint sealant. The haze or tick marks left by a DA Polisher can be removed by further polishing or they can easily be masked with a coat of quality car wax or a paint sealant like holograms by a rotary can be masked.

Note these results are pre-SMAT technology. Haven't been able to polish enough cars with Super Micro Abrasive Technology to know for sure but this technology has so far looked like it can produce as good or better results finishing with a DA Polisher and the right foam finishing pad and technique as a rotary with out the haze or tick marks. Time will tell.

Always keep in mind that different paint types will react differently so what works on one paint system may not work on a different paint system. This is where it helps a detailer to have the knowledge, skill and experience to first do a test spot and insure your pad, product and process of choice will make a small area look good before going over the entire car.

:)

Mike Phillips
Nov 26th, 2008, 01:57 PM
Moved to Member's Polls (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=130)

That way it will show up in the Poll section of the homepage.

:xyxthumbs

AeroCleanse
Nov 26th, 2008, 03:03 PM
I have been using a DA as the last step.

J. A. Michaels
Nov 26th, 2008, 03:04 PM
I only use a d/a. So the choice was easy for me.

irf@n
Nov 27th, 2008, 03:11 AM
Just tried once the DA but I guess I get used to RB...

Kevin Brown
Nov 27th, 2008, 08:41 AM
For those of you that use both rotary polishers and Dual Action polishers; do you finish off with the rotary or a DA?

I always finish off with a DA.
That didn't used to be the case. The turning point (for me) came when Jason Rose recommended I try M83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish. Until then, I would never consider finessing a paint job I'd just spent upwards of 20 hours polishing with a rotary. Are you kidding? Do you know how many cars I had to rotary polish because someone had 'buffed' their car with a cleaner/wax or polish using an orbital? There would be so many curly-Q scour marks covering the paint... You could hang the hood on a wall and use it as one of those eyeball trickery posters!

Nope, until Jason Rose recommended I try it, I only used my random-orbital to apply M06 Cleaner/Wax, or M20 Polymer Sealant. With a skeptical outlook, I gave it a shot.

I'll be darned if that M83 didn't improve the finish on many of the paint jobs I'd buffed for hours on end. Back than, the random-orbital wasn't always able to improve the finish as compared to a rotary. Many times, the surface would end up with a micro marred surface (matching the machine movement of the random-orbital (or DA). But!- Many times, it really improved the clarity of the paint by removing (or smoothing the edges of) any remaining rotary marks. Thus began the quest to push the limits of that wiggly random-orbital machine. That lil' guy was used with many different brands and types of compounds, cleaners, polishes, and glazes. A variety of foam buffing pads (ranging in brand, diameter, and aggressiveness) were attached via various sizes of backing plates. If acceptable results were not realized, a return to the rotary resolved the issues, and a brutal hand-polishing session ensued.


I've seen some claim that the rotary produces a better finish than a DA... I've never done a side by side comparison between the two, so do you feel the rotary does indeed produce a better finish than the DA?

I used to, but not anymore.
Whenever a question of this type is posed to me, I make it incredibly simple to determine my preferred method or choice of product. A contest is envisioned. It is a contest that pits me in a head-to-head contest with the world's best detailer (yup- judges, hoopla, trophys, and trophy girls are in their, too! :dp:).

If one of the parameters happens to be something like, "You only get to use one tool for final polishing... The rotary or the random-orbital!", I have to really consider which product is my favorite for the task at hand. Rotary versus random-orbital (DA)?

Today, it would hands-down be the DA.

M86, M105, and now M205 have really raised the bar for all types of machine application.

Holden_Caulfield04
Nov 27th, 2008, 12:13 PM
I used to, but not anymore.
Whenever a question of this type is posed to me, I make it incredibly simple to determine my preferred method or choice of product. A contest is envisioned. It is a contest that pits me in a head-to-head contest with the world's best detailer (yup- judges, hoopla, trophys, and trophy girls are in their, too! :dp:).

I'd be glad take you up on this. Trouble is, I reside next to the Great Lakes and you're down there next to the Pacific. Not sure how that would work out, but I am sure we could find a way, one day. :xyxthumbs

(I imagine there won't be judges, trophies, or girls:bawling1)

Markus Kleis
Nov 27th, 2008, 12:20 PM
M86, M105, and now M205 have really raised the bar for all types of machine application.

I couldn't agree more. Although I don't have M205 in my possession (yet), considering the accolades it has earned and who it has earned them from I don't expect less than amazing. M86 and M105 find their way into nearly every single detail I do. Love those products.

I must say though, I do find myself finishing with a rotary more often than I had envisioned before buying it. I can't wait to try M205 by rotary, FLEX 3401, and G110 side-by-side-by-side and see what I prefer in most cases.

Kevin Brown
Nov 27th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I'd be glad take you up on this. Trouble is, I reside next to the Great Lakes and you're down there next to the Pacific. Not sure how that would work out, but I am sure we could find a way, one day. :xyxthumbs

(I imagine there won't be judges, trophies, or girls:bawling1)

This is the first and likely the last time I will type statements in an egg-you-on manner. :nervous1
No offense meant (seriously)- Just couldn't contain myself...

"No, the vision clearly shows me pitted against the world's BEST detailer." :chuckle1

Besides- I doubt we could categorize any single person as the best at all aspects of the profession.

Kevin Brown
Nov 27th, 2008, 12:51 PM
I hope you know I'm just kidding, Tyler- You have always been nice to me. :xyxthumbs

Holden_Caulfield04
Nov 27th, 2008, 01:17 PM
This is the first and likely the last time I will type statements in an egg-you-on manner. :nervous1
No offense meant (seriously)- Just couldn't contain myself...

"No, the vision clearly shows me pitted against the world's BEST detailer." :chuckle1

Is that a call to action? I am ready for battle, sir! :D

No offense taken, of course.


I hope you know I'm just kidding, Tyler- You have always been nice to me. :xyxthumbs

Of course. I always enjoy intelligent discourse with you. :xyxthumbs

Tom Weed
Nov 27th, 2008, 05:14 PM
My final step would be the Flex orbital with a finishing pad depending on what you're working on.
Recently I've done two new black GM vehicles, a Caddy Crossover and a Pontiac G6. They were both very trying for me to get that "as close to perfect" finish as possible. When I used the rotary, with 83 the problem wasn't micro-marring, but making it completely hologram free in the sunlight over the entire car. I then switched to the Flex with a polishing pad, had micro-marring, switched to a finishing pad with 82 and still got some. It wasn't until I had the pad primed really well or "broke in" so to speak that I could get the results I was looking for.

I'm really excited about giving 205 a try...

Kevin Brown
Nov 27th, 2008, 06:44 PM
My final step would be the Flex orbital with a finishing pad depending on what you're working on.

OH! That type of machine-action DEFINITELY needs to be added to the poll...
Nice job bringing that option up.

Maybe they need to add hand application to the poll too? :scratchhead1

Dav_C
Nov 27th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Flex XC can be operate at really low rpm (150-480), hence it leaves the surface cooler. This is definitely good for finishing. Easy.

If I am finishing it off with rotary, I'll even 'lift' up the machine, meaning applying less force than the machine wegiht itself. Requires more practice.

RaskyR1
Nov 28th, 2008, 08:42 AM
The rotary has the ability to leave a very clear, high gloss finish whereas on some paint systems, using the same pad and product, (as used on the rotary), you'll see haze left by the DA Polisher which is actually a type of scratch or tick mark.

The rotary of course can leave very fine, hard to see holograms which can be easily masked with a coat of quality car wax or a paint sealant. The haze or tick marks left by a DA Polisher can be removed by further polishing or they can easily be masked with a coat of quality car wax or a paint sealant like holograms by a rotary can be masked.

Note these results are pre-SMAT technology. Haven't been able to polish enough cars with Super Micro Abrasive Technology to know for sure but this technology has so far looked like it can produce as good or better results finishing with a DA Polisher and the right foam finishing pad and technique as a rotary with out the haze or tick marks. Time will tell.

Always keep in mind that different paint types will react differently so what works on one paint system may not work on a different paint system. This is where it helps a detailer to have the knowledge, skill and experience to first do a test spot and insure your pad, product and process of choice will make a small area look good before going over the entire car.

:)



I always finish off with a DA.
That didn't used to be the case. The turning point (for me) came when Jason Rose recommended I try M83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish. Until then, I would never consider finessing a paint job I'd just spent upwards of 20 hours polishing with a rotary. Are you kidding? Do you know how many cars I had to rotary polish because someone had 'buffed' their car with a cleaner/wax or polish using an orbital? There would be so many curly-Q scour marks covering the paint... You could hang the hood on a wall and use it as one of those eyeball trickery posters!

Nope, until Jason Rose recommended I try it, I only used my random-orbital to apply M06 Cleaner/Wax, or M20 Polymer Sealant. With a skeptical outlook, I gave it a shot.

I'll be darned if that M83 didn't improve the finish on many of the paint jobs I'd buffed for hours on end. Back than, the random-orbital wasn't always able to improve the finish as compared to a rotary. Many times, the surface would end up with a micro marred surface (matching the machine movement of the random-orbital (or DA). But!- Many times, it really improved the clarity of the paint by removing (or smoothing the edges of) any remaining rotary marks. Thus began the quest to push the limits of that wiggly random-orbital machine. That lil' guy was used with many different brands and types of compounds, cleaners, polishes, and glazes. A variety of foam buffing pads (ranging in brand, diameter, and aggressiveness) were attached via various sizes of backing plates. If acceptable results were not realized, a return to the rotary resolved the issues, and a brutal hand-polishing session ensued.



I used to, but not anymore.
Whenever a question of this type is posed to me, I make it incredibly simple to determine my preferred method or choice of product. A contest is envisioned. It is a contest that pits me in a head-to-head contest with the world's best detailer (yup- judges, hoopla, trophys, and trophy girls are in their, too! :dp:).

If one of the parameters happens to be something like, "You only get to use one tool for final polishing... The rotary or the random-orbital!", I have to really consider which product is my favorite for the task at hand. Rotary versus random-orbital (DA)?

Today, it would hands-down be the DA.

M86, M105, and now M205 have really raised the bar for all types of machine application.


Thanks Kevin/Mike! I was looking to get a few good responces from the veterans around here. :xyxthumbs

RaskyR1
Nov 28th, 2008, 08:46 AM
My final step would be the Flex orbital with a finishing pad depending on what you're working on.
Recently I've done two new black GM vehicles, a Caddy Crossover and a Pontiac G6. They were both very trying for me to get that "as close to perfect" finish as possible. When I used the rotary, with 83 the problem wasn't micro-marring, but making it completely hologram free in the sunlight over the entire car. I then switched to the Flex with a polishing pad, had micro-marring, switched to a finishing pad with 82 and still got some. It wasn't until I had the pad primed really well or "broke in" so to speak that I could get the results I was looking for.

I'm really excited about giving 205 a try...

I though about adding one for the FLEX, but it is still considered a DA isn't it?

Markus Kleis
Nov 29th, 2008, 12:48 AM
I though about adding one for the FLEX, but it is still considered a DA isn't it?

Hard to say- it's half DA, half rotary. (It has random orbiatal movement plus, depending on your speed setting, up to 480 RPMS of forced rotation).

Tom Weed
Nov 29th, 2008, 07:54 AM
I though about adding one for the FLEX, but it is still considered a DA isn't it?

I would say it could be considered a DA on steroids! :D

Kevin Brown
Nov 29th, 2008, 09:10 AM
I would say it could be considered a DA on steroids! :D


Hard to say- it's half DA, half rotary. (It has random orbiatal movement plus, depending on your speed setting, up to 480 RPMS of forced rotation).

Ummm... I gonna go on a limb here and categorize it as a roDAry. :nervous1

Know what I'm sayin' there? See if you follow what I'm throwing down now...

It's like a combo-name and stuff... (Help me out here, Stoops- You're a good explainer-guy)... :scratchhead1

Tom Weed
Nov 29th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Ummm... I gonna go on a limb here and categorize it as a roDAry. :nervous1

Know what I'm sayin' there? See if you follow what I'm throwing down now...

It's like a combo-name and stuff... (Help me out here, Stoops- You're a good explainer-guy)... :scratchhead1

RoDAry!!!:idea::idea::idea:

Markus Kleis
Dec 6th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Ummm... I gonna go on a limb here and categorize it as a roDAry. :nervous1

Know what I'm sayin' there? See if you follow what I'm throwing down now...

It's like a combo-name and stuff... (Help me out here, Stoops- You're a good explainer-guy)... :scratchhead1

:scratchhead1



Just kidding. I see where you are going with this Kevin....I like it :chuckle1

Mike Phillips
Dec 16th, 2008, 02:58 PM
Today, it would hands-down be the DA.

M86, M105, and now M205 have really raised the bar for all types of machine application.


I would agree with the DA now that we have products based on our new SMA Technology but before these products came out it would depend upon the paint itself and how it reacted to the oscillating action of a DA Polisher.


OH! That type of machine-action DEFINITELY needs to be added to the poll...
Nice job bringing that option up.

Maybe they need to add hand application to the poll too? :scratchhead1

Will add the Flex XC3401 VRG Dual Action Polisher

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/731/FlexXC3401VRGDAOP.jpg


And the human hand...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/647/For_MOL_28_.jpg

Mike Phillips
Dec 16th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Poll has been updated.

RaskyR1
Dec 16th, 2008, 03:39 PM
Poll has been updated.

Can I change my answer now? :chuckle1

J/K

Sven
Dec 23rd, 2008, 05:28 AM
its not only the machine but also the product, combinations of those will get a good result, but when you search for showroomfinish, rotary will go faster to take out defects, but a D/A with M105 can do the same, only more time needed, finishing can be done with a D/A or Rotary depending on type of paint, polish, tools and your on experience :wavey

in my experience finishing with a D/A and M80 is awesomes, but i'm waiting on some M205 and maybe this will be my new alltime favorite !

RaskyR1
Dec 23rd, 2008, 08:55 AM
its not only the machine but also the product, combinations of those will get a good result, but when you search for showroomfinish, rotary will go faster to take out defects, but a D/A with M105 can do the same, only more time needed, finishing can be done with a D/A or Rotary depending on type of paint, polish, tools and your on experience :wavey

in my experience finishing with a D/A and M80 is awesomes, but i'm waiting on some M205 and maybe this will be my new alltime favorite !

Mine just got dropped of at my home 10 minutes ago....I need to leave work now! :dp: :D

Sven
Dec 23rd, 2008, 11:33 PM
Rasky you lucky b... :D, send us your results and experience asap, i'm curious

eric_son
Mar 15th, 2009, 11:47 PM
Rotary for me.

My DA died on my last year and I still can't find a suitable replacement...:(

Ivan Rajic
Mar 16th, 2009, 10:29 AM
I tend to finish with the rotary about 80-90% of the time... M80 with a 9006 pad is just amazing on pretty much any paint, from my experience of course... I will sometimes run into problems with the rotary on some paints, especially harder clears and VWs, where I simply cannot finish without holograms... that's when I'll take a black LC pad and something like M82 or M3 and finish down with a PC/G110.

Lately it's been mostly rotary/M80/9006 with a well primed pad and about 5-7 passes 600 spread, 900, 1200, 1500, 1500, 1200, 900

Ivan Rajic
Mar 16th, 2009, 12:55 PM
I'm really wondering who voted "by hand" and why and also why is "by hand" beating Flex... weird!

RaskyR1
Mar 16th, 2009, 01:10 PM
I'm really wondering who voted "by hand" and why and also why is "by hand" beating Flex... weird!

The Flex and hand options were added after the poll was already started. I use the Flex to finish off with most the time but consider it a DA.

Details
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:01 PM
I usually go something like this.... M105 for sure, depending on the condition of the paint, I use various pads, from heavy cutting to light polishing but always the same product. When Im compounding.... Then thats followed by M205 on various types of polishing pads, once again depending on the paint condition I use this on various types of pads, from heavy polishing all the way to a finishing pad. When Im polishing... When I polish I use the rotary and I work up from moderate pressure to just the machine weight, to minimize the holograms. I also work the hell out of the M205.... Based on what type of paint it is ( soft, hard, ceramic, blah blah...) after that there is usually no holograms, if there is I try to wax by hand to remove them, if that doesnt work onto the DA with finishing pad and a non cleaner wax... No matter how easy I am with the DA I almost always end up with slight haze or slight marring, when I use it.. For a truly clear finish I beleive the rotary is the way to go... But I usually end up using the DA

Details
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:04 PM
Oh and by the M205, is the new sliced bread....
And maybe it would help if Meguiars came out with an even softer pad for finishing!?!?!?!?!?

Flash Gordon
Oct 8th, 2010, 03:23 PM
My only question is how did I end up viewing this thread. It was under "Todays Post" but the last post before me was in 2009 :nono1

Tuck91
Oct 8th, 2010, 08:39 PM
My only question is how did I end up viewing this thread. It was under "Todays Post" but the last post before me was in 2009 :nono1

The thread was bumped due to the fact that someone voted in the poll.

TestarossaDetailing
Nov 2nd, 2010, 01:56 PM
Flex XC3401 VRG Dual Action Polisher :bow